Phantom of the Opera discussion

Raoul..was he truly the right man for Christine? are you happy with how things ended? Would you write it different if it was in your hands? What did you think of his character? Did he love Christine for who she really is or what he thought she should be? Have you read any sequels by another author that have a HEA for them?

Well...He seemed like a nice "romantic" save the damsel kinda guy..but I didnt feel he really loved Christine & accepted her for who she was & passion for her music.I have read a few sequels and it never turns out well for them ..so I guess its up in the air for me on a HEA for them.

He... I think he was right for Christine. But he was too perfect. Unrealistic, pathetic, and annoying. No offense to any Raoul Lovers. I just didn't like him a whole lot.

Way-chan (Aspiring Author) wrote: "He... I think he was right for Christine. But he was too perfect. Unrealistic, pathetic, and annoying. No offense to any Raoul Lovers. I just didn't like him a whole lot."

I totally agree with you on this one Way-chan..I just have never warmed up to Raoul..the theater,or the book..they just dont seem "to fit" together.

It's not that I dislike Raoul, but.... He's either perfect or perfectly ridiculous (no offense meant to members of Team Raoul, this is just my opinion). The musical gives us the usual knight in shining armor, which is all right on occasion but doesn't provide much depth, and the book presents us with the pampered, emotional nancy boy who spends half of his time crying over something or the other (again, this is just my opinion). I would love to get my hands on a sequel that finds a middle ground and makes him likable! I just never saw the whole R/C pairing as anything more than a first love, and it just felt like it would end the way all first loves do eventually. Raoul only ever saw Christine as Little Lotte, not the woman she'd grown to be. Regardless of whether or not she ends up with Erik, I've always thought her relationship with Raoul would go south one day.

Gemma Irene wrote: "It's not that I dislike Raoul, but.... He's either perfect or perfectly ridiculous (no offense meant to members of Team Raoul, this is just my opinion). The musical gives us the usual knight in shi..."

In some of the sequels Ive read thats what happens!
In your book Gemma, would you have HEA with Erik & Christine or Erik with someone else? Oh..maybe its better you keep us guessing :) Im not a Raoul fan..maybe I would have if his character had been a little stronger. But then the story would have been compelete,and its more fun with the "what-if" dont you think?

I agree with you completely, Gemma.

I personally like Raoul, he is a sweet and kind gentleman until Mr. Webber took his character and destroyed it...Yes, he worries but it is for a reason.

I, personally, can't stand that Raoul ended up with Christine.

For me, Raoul is a lot like Lancelot. I like Lancelot as his own character, as a stand alone. But when he's trying to hit on Guinevere, it's like I can't stand him. I cannot stand Raoul when he does some of the truly idiotic things he does.

For example, in the play/movie, he barges into Christine's dressing room, after not having seen her for nine years (in movie-time) and expects her to just be like, "OH RAOUL, WOW, MY WHOLE LIFE WAS ON PAUSE FOR YOU!" And then demands they go to dinner together and doesn't even give her a choice? When he goes back and actually hears Phantom's voice in her dressing room and knows something is wrong? We can only assume that he left, because he doesn't show up again until the scene the next morning during "Notes".

And it's that same night, after seeing her twice, TWICE, that he declares his love for her? It drives me crazy! He just seems self-centered sometimes, even though everyone sees him as being really selfless. He doesn't listen to Christine when she says the Phantom is real; he again doesn't give her a choice in performing in Don Juan Triumphant, even though she's terrified.

My personal favorite Raoul-moment of the movie. How he promises to protect Christine and all that? Three months go by, no Phantom? And then he actually shows up, and Raoul...leaves the room? The guy who Raoul is so scared will mess with Christine and he's all "READY TO DEFEND", but then the moment of truth comes and he just leaves the room? XD Come onnnn.

But, no offense to Raoul. I like him as a stand alone. But not with Christine.

I have to agree with you, Thalia. I've been doing a lot of thinking about his character since my last post, and his heart really is in the right place, but something about the R/C pairing just doesn't click for me! He's got his good points, though, I'll give him that. I can't hate him (though I do hate it when he's written out of character), but I can't love him either.

Yes, I think he really does have the right intentions. But, like everybody else, he only sees Phantom as a murderer who goes about everything the wrong way. I think if he truly took a step back and looked at what Christine wants, he might have acted differently. But he was very impulsive and just bombarded her life with no thought at all to the fact that he hadn't even kept in contact with her, even though we can only assume he knew where she was. Bahhh, I just can't see him as being the right choice for her, even though I like his character.

I remain a die-hard fan of Erik..nothing will change that:)

Sandi *~The Pirate Wench~* wrote: "I remain a die-hard fan of Erik..nothing will change that:)"

Amen!

Thalia wrote: "My personal favorite Raoul-moment of the movie. How he promises to protect Christine and all that? Three months go by, no Phantom? And then he actually shows up, and Raoul...leaves the room? The guy who Raoul is so scared will mess with Christine and he's all "READY TO DEFEND", but then the moment of truth comes and he just leaves the room? XD Come onnnn. "

...Which scene is this?

I think it's the Masquerade scene in the movie. Erik turns up and Raoul goes to get a sword.

That's what I suspected.. because, as you said, Raoul was going to arm himself against the Phantom--not running away. There's a huge difference. (Although, why he runs for a sword in the first place or even finds one is completely beyond me. Nobody in Western Europe uses swords in 1870--they use guns.

Lindsay wrote: "That's what I suspected.. because, as you said, Raoul was going to arm himself against the Phantom--not running away. There's a huge difference. (Although, why he runs for a sword in the first plac..."

Haha, true, but a sword is just more dramatic! It kind of takes the wind out of your sails if one of the principal characters is shot halfway through the movie.

I just found it especially funny, since his "costume" looked like that which would have a sword incoporated in the costume itself. And even then; Phantom wasn't armed. Would have been nice to see an old-fashioned fist fight, hahha.

I know Raoul was going to get "armed", but I just thought the timing was really funny.

I really do think Raoul should have brought the sword with him. I mean, he has it with him in other scenes, so why not then? I found it funny as well.

I still think it would have been funny to see what might of happened if he'd brought a gun (with the intention of actually using it) to the lair. Imagine the look on Erik's face!

It's been discussed in another forum how that would have played out in the musical, and it would have been anti-climactic to the extreme. "I had rather hoped that you would--"

BAM!

The audience would demand a refund.

Bahaha. That would be great. I mean, no, that would be awful. I would hate it if Erik was called in such a way.

But still... It would be an experience.

I still seethe at the sword fight in the movie (what is wrong with them?! The Phantom can't lose like that!), so it would be a thousand times worse if he actually got shot, by Raoul no less! I can deal with that part in the book because it's never really certain if he shot Erik or a cat, but...

How's this: Stick with the original ending, but pull out the gun gag for laughs.

Yes, for the laughs.

Erik couldn't be shot. It just isn't possible. He would have seen it coming in one of his mirrors or something.


Truthfully, I thought if made sense that Phantom lost the sword fight to Raoul. Think about it, Raoul has probably been training in fencing since he was young and Phantom is more of a magical man who is probably good with swords. It just made Phantom seem even more human to me.

Yeah...points for reminding us that he is in fact a human and not some invincible god, but still...darn! *kicks chair*

What would have happened if Raoul shot Erik? explain that one in detail if you wish.

The R/Cers would have been cheering in the aisles, but they would have been forced to flee from all the angry E/Cers out for vengeance, and those in the audience who didn't take sides would be sitting in their seats wondering just what the heck was going on. XD

Ummmm....Thanks Gemma that made a ton of sense.

Exactly. Something that anti-climatic wouldn't have made any sense at all. It's a kinda funny thought until you start thinking about it seriously.

In reality, though, if Raoul had shot Erik, Christine probably would have resented him for it, whether or not she loved Erik or was terrified of him. Even in Leroux Raoul told Philippe that if he'd actually shot Erik on the balcony she would never have forgiven him.

Can I just say that that entire conversation was freaking hilarious? Every time I listen to "Down Once More/Track Down This Murderer", I always expect it to end when it gets to "I had rather hoped--". x)

That's the best part; Raoul would have been all macho, like, "I HAVE ENDED THE MADNESS, HUZZAH" and Christine would probably be really pissed off, and he wouldn't have gotten the girl anyways, hahaha. Ah, karma. <3

Thalia wrote: "Can I just say that that entire conversation was freaking hilarious? Every time I listen to "Down Once More/Track Down This Murderer", I always expect it to end when it gets to "I had rather hoped-..."

Sorry if I ruined the Final Lair for you with my humor, Thalia...

If the look on Erik's face when Raoul pulled a gun on him would have been priceless, then I'd pay money to see the look on Raoul's when he thought he'd saved the day but Christine ditched him because she was so mad at him. Kodak moment, maybe?

That would be a huge surprise if he did that.

He still doesn't understand why Christine is all lovey dovey over Eric by the end of the book I don't either. Okay, he has a very strong and powerful voice but he can't help but murder the guy who follows him and the reason is....

*Dramatic music* BECAUSE IS HE IS THE PHANTOM OF THE OPERA, if you can lose Raoul (he isn't that stupid) but still, you can just disappear out of thin air why can't you do that to that poor stage guy instead of hanging him and making it a big deal out of it.

No, Gemma, it was perfect, hahah. Now I don't have to sob openly when I listen to it in public. (:

The entire scene would be a Kodak moment after that, hahahah. Poor Raoul. Christine probably would have left him down there and just went back to the boat and sailed away without him. Ahh, happy endings. <3

Still something else? The Opera House is BURNING. BURNING DOWN TO THE GROUND. And yet all these people found time to get down to the Opera cellars, with no worries at all about maybe being crushed? How did anybody get out?! That is what I would like to know.

Suddenly the phantom appears a few years later happily content living on the cony islands plotting away the chances of getting Christine back for his own except he can't really do that because she is married to Raoul.

Thalia wrote: "I just found it especially funny, since his "costume" looked like that which would have a sword incoporated in the costume itself. And even then; Phantom wasn't armed. Would have been nice to see a..."

Erik had a sword then I think. When he says "Don JUan Triumphant!" He pulls out a sword.

At first I hated Raoul. He always interupts everything. E/C Overall relesionship, The cemetery scence. Down Oncce more scence. Plus he is overall annoying. but when you think about it hes just some rich guy trying to get the girl he loves who doesn't have a clue what it going on. To be honest he is like Erik describes him an "Ignorent fool" Go Erik!!!

Ah, you're right; then he proceeds to play with Andre's beard, hahah. (:

I didn't really have any use for Raoul until I saw Patrick Wilson in the movie. In the book, he was a bit too emotional, and in the play he just feels like part of the scenery. In the movie, he was an active part of the love triangle AND a really sweet guy without being a typical knight in shining armor.

Ok there is this guy called Lee Mead. I have seen him in a couple of musicals. I was looking over his Any Dream will do audition and found him saying he was currently (2007 I think) in Phantom. I was just like :O Are you serious? Lee Mead, who I have been a big fan of for years, was in Phantom. I found him singing All I ask of you on youtube and nearly cried because if Raoul was like him,, he'd have a solid chance...

I've heard of Lee Mead! I didn't know if he was ever in Phantom, but I did know he sang All I Ask Of You with Hayley Westenra at ALW's birthday concert in 2008. Here's the video!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-GRpf...

Gemma Irene wrote: "I've heard of Lee Mead! I didn't know if he was ever in Phantom, but I did know he sang All I Ask Of You with Hayley Westenra at ALW's birthday concert in 2008. Here's the video!
http://www.youtube..."

Thanks :) I heard he was an understudy. I'll link him singing in Joseph and the amazing tecnicolour dreamcoat (Another ALW show) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7BWrY...

I never really liked Raoul. He just seemed like another rich young boy going after someone he loves. I think that if i could change the story i would. I would make it so that Raoul does not get Christine. He just gets in the way.

Olivia wrote: "I never really liked Raoul. He just seemed like another rich young boy going after someone he loves. I think that if i could change the story i would. I would make it so that Raoul does not get Chr..."

I feel the same way. I thought Raoul very in mature, and totally wrong for Christine. And any sequels that have been made sway in Erik's favor.

Hmm...might get a few tomatoes thrown at me, but...the more I think about it, the more Raoul has grown on me. I still think his heart is in the right place, but I classify him as more of a hot-head nowadays. For instance, he is so concerned with saving Christine when she's gotten herself into a jam that he rushes forward, full steam ahead, with no plan whatsoever and no regard for his own safety. Should we call this a lovable bonehead?

My liking (and yes, love) for Raoul is based solely on his strength of character depending on the version. "Lovable bonehead" applies to Leroux, but I would call most of the actors in the musical cardboard Prince Charmings. He wasn't so bad in the silent movie, I couldn't stand him in the Claude Raines movie, and he was bland and unimportant in the Robert Englund movie. I liked him a lot in Susan Kay's book, however. She created her E/C ending, but she didn't turn Raoul into a villain to do it. She kept him a noble, decent man the whole time, and I loved that. And then there was Patrick Wilson and Hadley Fraser...Patrick was the REAL knight in shining armor, and Hadley was just plain fearless. And I thought both of them were tremendous!

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I found this on Google search somehow xD

I didn't like Raoul. It seemed to me like his love for Christine was more lust than true love.

In the book, he seemed weak. And in the 2004 movie he was weak, although a bit better. Only when I saw Hadley's interpretation of Raoul was I convinced. This is the man to play Raoul, and he acted the heck out of that role :)
I was definitely convinced he loved Christine in that 25th anniversary production.

WOULDN'T AARON TVEIT BE PERFECT AS RAOUL? I've just thought of it and now I can't think of anything else! He's be AMAZING!!

I agree with Nikita that Raoul seemed weak in the book and movie. Hadley was amazing in the 25th anniversary! Anyone who has seen the 25th anniversary should agree with me! Except for my parents, they didn't like him, but whatever, I'm not going to argue with them over that. I will say though, Ramin Karimloo made a pretty good Raoul as well, but I liked him better as the Phantom!

Hope wrote: "I agree with Nikita that Raoul seemed weak in the book and movie. Hadley was amazing in the 25th anniversary! Anyone who has seen the 25th anniversary should agree with me! Except for my parents, ..."

Ramin was also a cool Raoul! But I agree that he was better as Phantom :)

To kinda edit on my first comment on Raoul, I don't actually think he's weak. Yes he is kinda in the 2004 movie, and some actors spoil him, but his initial character I do like. In the book he is quite highly strung, but I don't think he's weak. To fight for Christine like he did in the book, and be so devoted to her...that's not weakness.

I don't know... He's kind of "I love her, I'm mad at her" in the book and even worse in the movie/play. I'm thinking of that scene when Christine is scared to play her part in Don Juan Triumphant and Raoul, instead of doing what a strong, protective man would do for his true love (i.e., support her), he tells her she has to because all their hopes hang on her. Erik would never have put her in harm's way... Can you guess? I'm an Erik fan...