A Separate Peace discussion

who thinks Gene did it on purpose and why? who thinks it was an accident? i personaly think he did it because he thought about doing it but didn't think long enogh to chose not to do it. what is your opinion?

Cas, I think that you're asking the question that is really the core of this book.

I've loved this book for ages and I've always liked to think that the hero himself doesn't know. I personally think that he did cause the accident without thinking it through, and at the times was unsure why he would do it. He's probably lied to himself for years about it and tried to convince himself that it really was just an accident. SO much so that now he's no longer sure.

BTW... I think that the victim doesn't know either but has the same suspicions and questions.

thank you for your comment and i know that this might be the question the book is about but i would love an answer so i am settling for opinions of the readers. thx!

This is one of those questions I've wanted a concrete answer to for years and then, finally, I've come up with this: (although I may change my mind about it) I don't think Gene did it consciously, but I do believe that there was that subconscious part of him that wanted to hurt, or get back at Finny, in some way. Gene harbored a resentment against Finny; you can feel it simmering below the surface prior to that scene, and while I don't believe he would have set out to maliciously, willfully, hurt him, I believe that the thought flashed through his mind when he was standing there on that limb, and his body reacted before his mind had the chance to stop him.

I don't believe Gene thought it would cause the repercussions that it did. If Finny had not suffered any injuries, Gene probably would have found his motivations easier to dismiss. It would have been a nonissue; or, at least, it might have niggled at Gene for a while, but, it would have been easier for him to quiet that voice. Since that incident did have such an impact, Gene cannot dismiss it that easily and is forced to analyze it.

I think Finny suspects that it was not an accident, but it's too much truth for him to bear, especially at that age. It would have been interesting to have been able to get inside Finny's head & read about his struggle with it.

In some ways this whole dilemna is just an overstatement of the whole "tears the wings off flys" devilry that young boys are known to get up to. That they do it doesn't mean that they are necessarily "bad" but even the best humans have a capacity for evil in them that must be avoided.

I think that the author's struggling with this, all these years later is part of the reason that this is such a good book. It allows for an adult mind to recall and reflect on and can we say "repent of" some misdeed of his past.

Caryl wrote: "Cas wrote: "who thinks Gene did it on purpose and why? who thinks it was an accident? i personaly think he did it because he thought about doing it but didn't think long enogh to chose not to do it..."

he did say he caused his fall but even then he couldn't tell if he had done it on pourpose or not. even by the end of the book he says he did but not on pourpose or he "suposes" it was on pourpose. you never really know and i just want opinions. not yes/no he caused it, but yes/no he did it on pourpose while actually intending to hurt Finny.

I do love this book and I do think it is about Gene being confused all the time about his true intentions but i'm a teen to and not always confused like him. i think he was only confused due to guilt mixed with denial.

Ooh...I wrote an essay on this. Maybe I'll post it to GR and put a link here.

This was an assigned read...I couldn't even get thru this book. I heard so many ppl say they liked and I know its a classic. But honestly I had a really hard time trying to get into it.

As for the fall I don't think it was an accident.

It's one of my least favorites, Nate.

same here, i really didn't like the book that much but it just bugs me that i read it and won't ever get an acctual answer!

I think Gene thought of doing it also, but he didn't think about it. It came to his mind and his body did all the actions. The jealousy got to him. He should of just told Finny the truth about the way he felt about him in the first place, and nothing bad would have happened. Then the book would have not been written.

I think at the moment when the two were there together, Gene really wanted to feel alone. He wanted a second of peace and so he triggered the branch so one would fall. Not on purpose, just out of a need to be isolated. Unfortunately , the accident happened and he wasnt alone for the rest of his life because he could no longer rest his mind without thinking "was it my fault?" prior.

Gene pushes Finny out of the tree on purpose. It wasn't planned or premeditated - he did it spur of the moment without thinking. At the time, he blamed Finny for sabotaging his grades. He felt that they were no longer in balance. Gene had the high grades; Finny had the physcial ability. When Gene's grades fell, he had to balance the scales and made Finny fall.

It isn't until later that he discovers they weren't in competetion at all. Gene does it on purpose out of frustration, comes to terms with it, and even gets Finny to accept it.

I agree with K.J. He did do it on purpose, impulsively. He wasn't necessarily acting out of evil, or with intent even. He just got frustrated and gave in to jealousy without thinking of the repercussions. This is one of those books I still think about years after I read it. I wouldn't say it was my favorite, but a very affecting book.

I think he did it on purpose, because he gave into his emotions, but quickly realized it might haunt him.
I give this a four star rating. It is filled with outstanding metaphors.
I wonder if any of it was biographical. The title is superb.
message by Connie

Connie wrote: "I think he did it on purpose, because he gave into his emotions, but quickly realized it might haunt him.
I give this a four star rating. It is filled with outstanding metaphors.
I wonder if any o..."
I agree. He did it on purpose, out of jealousy. But a split second later wanted to take it back.

Has anyone read the sequel, Peace Breaks Out? I really want to know if it's as good as A Separate Peace was.

Yes, I have read "Peace Breaks Out", not quite as good as "A
Separate Peace," however it's a three star.
Connie

I haven't read this book in about 25 years but think I'll read it again soon. I have a feeling I'll see different things in it this time.

Barbara, it's worth it, it will be different.
That happened to me when I re-read "Of Human bondage."
Connie

Connie wrote: "Barbara, it's worth it, it will be different.
That happened to me when I re-read "Of Human bondage."
Connie"

"Of Human Bondage" is on my to-read list....after I read "The Razor's Edge" this last year. WSM is really a wonderful writer.

I read it some time ago and what stayed in my mind is that he did it on purpose. What he felt later is something apart. I believe he wished he hadn't done it; and that if he could have had time to think about it, he wouldn't have done it. He made the decision of pushing Finny on the spur of the moment.

The book got to me at the time. It meant something and that's why I trust myself to write this impression on it.

Yes, WSM is a terrific writer. I don't know how he creates such characters. The reader can almost feel himself/herself saying, "No don't do it, again."
I think I will read "Razor's Edge."
Di d anyone read "Prep?" Have an opinion?"
Connie

Connie wrote: "I think he did it on purpose, because he gave into his emotions, but quickly realized it might haunt him...The title is superb..."

I've wondered exactly what's meant by the title. Finny and Gene do sort of reach a peace before the whole "trial" sequence and indirectly it's the "trial" that leads to Finny's death.

Also this novel is concerned with WW II and in that war there was much concern among the allies that Russia and Germany would reach "A separate peace" leaving the Brits and the US to battle Germany and Japan alone. I've wondered if just the phrase was stolen or if the intention was deeper.

I think he was thinking about it but took action subconciously (sorry if I spelled that wrong). Gene obviously had very strong emotions towards Finny and wanted to witness him screw up at least once. However, Gene didn't mean to hurt Finny either. So I think it wanted to do it and then did it, not fully aware of what he was doing.

I think it was an accident but we later discover a psychological reason that even Gene didn't realize when he did it. I say accident.

I personally think it was an accident. I think that Gene really likes Phineas and would never INTENTIONALLY harm him. Phineas has a hold on him. He changes Gene and inspires him. They both feel for eachother and I think the only reason why Gene considers that he could have caused Finny's fall is bc he looks up to him so much. He's seemingly perfect and wonderful, so in his mind, the only thing that could have gone against someome so amazing and "invincible" had to be himself. He had to have been the flaw in the situation. Because, naturally, Phineas is always on top of the world. And the only thing that could have brought him down, was this guy who didnt seem as good as him.

Gene Forrester is a douche.

Holden wrote: "Gene Forrester is a douche."

Said by someone whose namesake is the biggest douche in all of literature, haha. Not a personal attack, just an observation. I'm sure you're nothing like Caulfield.

I think Gene did it on purpose, but instantly regretted it. I've had experiences with friends who were more magnanimous, better looking, etc., than I, and while I didn't break their legs or cause their deaths, I nonetheless acted shamefully and impulsively without recognizing the consequences of my actions. I've gone through all the stages Gene did: guilt, denial, confusion, re-denial, and acceptance.

Maria wrote: "I think at the moment when the two were there together, Gene really wanted to feel alone. He wanted a second of peace and so he triggered the branch so one would fall. Not on purpose, just out of a..."

That is the best explanation I have heard thus far. He was tired of depending on Finny (or feeling like he had to depend on Finny), and so he jounced the branch, subconsciously, wanting Finny to fall. And so Finny later becomes dependent on him, after the injury, but in a way Gene is still not really his own person. I don't think anyone really is--we all depend on someone, or something, to survive. Which is why Gene felt like Finny's funeral was his own funeral too, because without Finny he could no longer live.

Although I may have exaggerated that bit.

Well, he obviously did it on purpose. He was jealous of Phinneas. He could have not done it. Maybe you're really asking, Did he envision the consequences of what he was doing? That's a trickier question. On some level he must have, but it's also hard to believe that he wished this much tragedy upon his friend. So, I think it was kind of an ambiguous act--part in fun and jest, but also part in anger and envy.

Personally, I think that Gene did cause the accident on purpose. At the moment of the accident, I believe that Gene was overcome by feelings of envy and he let his jealousy get the better of him. Without thinking about the consequences or taking the time to clear out his thoughts, he moved the branch so Finny could fall. Like most teenagers, Gene let his feelings completely blind his better judgment. However, if he had taken the time to calm down and clear his feelings out, he would never hurt his friend. I also think that Gene continuously lied to himself by telling himself that Finny's incident was an accident. The reason for this might be the fact that he doesn't want to admit that he did something as low and immoral as that.

Stephen wrote: "Cas, I think that you're asking the question that is really the core of this book.

I've loved this book for ages and I've always liked to think that the hero himself doesn't know. I personally th..."

I agree. This is realistic and true to the book.

of course Gene did it on purpose. But then he found out he had to live with the consequences - and he hadn't thought those through, and they will haunt him all his days.

Stephen wrote: "Connie wrote: "I think he did it on purpose, because he gave into his emotions, but quickly realized it might haunt him...The title is superb..."

I've wondered exactly what's meant by the title. F..."
I believe the title refers to Gene trying to come to peace with himself,his own actions, separate from the war, separate from what the other students thought of him and the accident, and separate from whether he and Phineas came to terms before the "trial". I do believe he purposely caused the accident, regardless of whether it was spur of the moment or an emotionally charged moment where he acted before he thought. Like most teenagers, Gene acted before he thought it through, "his feelings blinded his better judgment" as Ronela stated in her comment. I think that Gene did lie and make excuses about what happened because he felt that's what he needed to do to get through high school, and that he eventually started to believe the lies himself. 15 years later, Gene's separate peace was with himself and that he could keep covering up the truth.

Brenna wrote: "Stephen wrote: "Connie wrote: "I think he did it on purpose, because he gave into his emotions, but quickly realized it might haunt him...The title is superb..."

I've wondered exactly what's meant..."

You should publish this.

Emma wrote: "Brenna wrote: "Stephen wrote: "Connie wrote: "I think he did it on purpose, because he gave into his emotions, but quickly realized it might haunt him...The title is superb..."

I've wondered exact..."

really?

Simply expressing how much I liked your analysis of the title. Makes a lot of sense to me--Gene was trying to come to peace with himself. That's what the whole thing was about.

thanks.

does anyone have two peices of evedec that gene pushed finny off?

why is a seperate peace considered a pornographic book?

Cas wrote: "who thinks Gene did it on purpose and why? who thinks it was an accident? i personaly think he did it because he thought about doing it but didn't think long enogh to chose not to do it. what is yo..."

I think that Gene (depending on the readers pov) did it but not in a 100% intentional way. he was having repressed emotions of jealousy and well envy thoughts throughout the first part of the book and this two emotions drove him crazy for a few chapters until they got the best parts of him and subconsciously moved the branch were they were standing but in no way did he ever want to harm Finny. It is true that he did move the branch, in my opinion, but the way he felt after everything happened even right when Finny was falling shows how he never intended something bad happening to him. Gene is one of the best written characters I've ever read because it shows a natural normal teenager that feels a certain way ( apart from the incident ). if we view the incident in another way we can say that it was as in every persons life that mistake/s you make that you know its wrong but happen because of your teenage point of view in well everything, very immature and move on and grow as ppl bc no on is perfect. also how finny wouldn't take Genes apology because he couldn't believe that his best mate could have done that shows how different to any other two male characters connection is and so unique as well in their own way. what I also like is how the Second World War was happening but its not the centre of attention, the centre of attention is Genes pov and emotions and well everything really happening surrounding him. finally just want to add that this book does not have a certain rhythm which make it so unexpected because there isn't really that tension before something happens, everything just flows and things happen which makes things tense or sad or suspenseful but it still continues. and btw if you think that this book is about a dude that broke his leg then reread the book please hahaha

Daph wrote: "Cas wrote: "who thinks Gene did it on purpose and why? who thinks it was an accident? i personally think he did it because he thought about doing it but didn't think long enough to chose not to do it..."

btw when I said that he never intended to harm him I meant that he really never wanted Finny to have a lifetime problem but maybe subconsciously he did want to hurt him some way, the way he thought finny was hurting him with this "betrayal" he felt

Cas wrote: "same here, i really didn't like the book that much but it just bugs me that i read it and won't ever get an acctual answer!"

that's the beauty of it, you make your own answer because based on the info you have received people will think differently

When I first read the book I thought he had done it on purpose, but upon rereading I’m not too sure anymore. The internal monologue leading up to the tree talks about how ashamed Gene feels that he mistrusted his friend and his intentions. Contrary to what a lot of people think, at this current point before the accident, Gene does not hate Phineas but rather is coming to the realization that he was wrong about Phineas all along, that the entire time he was the only one waging a war against Phineas. This whole segment he’s just found his “separate peace,” in a way. But he gets up to the tree and he bounces the limb by accident, without thinking, whatever, and Phineas falls off. But because he’s had such poisonous thoughts for Phineas for a long time, he begins believing that he did it on purpose; the guilt makes him believe that what was unintentional was something purposeful. The book has a pattern of people coming to a peace with the situation, just for it to be disrupted when an equilibrium comes about (ex. Finny and the stairs), so the idea that it really was an accident makes more sense to me thematically. If you think about it, that would make it two falls, both accidents following a period of peace.

But I think what I love about the book is no one knows, not Phineas, not Gene. At the end of the book, Phineas chooses to never know. And Gene is alone to face the consequences of his initial hate and ignorance that, regardless of whether or not the accident was intentional or not, has caused him to pay for it. One paid for it with his life, the other will pay for it for the rest of his life.