Baker Street Irregulars discussion

There is a LOT of Jack the Ripper/Sherlock Holmes stuff. There are at least two movies, A Study in Terror & Murder by Decree. I haven't seen A Study in Terror but I do like Murder by Decree. Murder by Decree worked really well for me because I had recently read the comic From Hell, and they have the same premise. Much better than the From Hell movie! Blarg. Also, it's kind of hinted in the latest Sherlock Holmes movie that Lord Blackwood was the ripper or someone ripper-like (in the beginning I think Holmes said he was the murderer of 5 women?).

I have two games, Sherlock Holmes vs. Jack the Ripper on XBOX and Mr. Jack (a boardgame). I wouldn't recommend the XBOX game unless you are REALLY into it. Mostly I was amused that there was a Sherlock Holmes video game and you can make them do stupid video game things like walk into walls and jump around like a fool. Mr. Jack is much more entertaining. It is a two player game and one person plays as Jack and other a detective. One character is even named Jeremy Burt because the makers are probably huge sherlock nerds. What is interesting is any of the characters can be Jack, even Watson! which makes me laugh every time it happens.

Oh and the books! that would uh... be a lot.

In the Sherlock Holmes Scrapbook (or is it Casebook?? All of my books are currently in storage in tupperware bins!) there is an amazing essay that I'd love to share with this group. Sorry to be so vague, but the topic of the essay was why Holmes never dealt with the ripper in the original canon. then, in true fan-fiction style, the essay delivers an amazing psychoanalysis of Holmes. I won't spoil it, but of all the Holmesian stuff I've read this one essay is my favorite... and it deals entirely with the ripper, including copies of the original newspaper sketches of the crimes.

If it's in the Sherlock Holmes Scrapbook, then I have a copy. I'll have to read it soon! The Jack the Ripper case is such perfect fan-fiction inspiration. It's never dealt with in the canon so writers are free to come up with anything they want. I read a pastiche where Sherlock Holmes was the Ripper, but only because he had to destroy the alien eggs implanted in the women (or is it elder gods? I forget which).

I know I'm new but I felt that maybe someone needed to make the case against mixing real life crime with fiction. I think that Doyle was wise to not have Sherlock face Jack the Ripper because at the time it was still an open investigation. In fact we still don't know who did it.
I am just scared that with all of this Ripper fiction out there that people tend to forget that what a monster this guy was and that real women died because some psycho felt like slashing them up. Not Characters on a page but actual people.
And no fictional detective, no matter how great he is, will ever be able to give them the justice they deserve. Doyle knew this, that is why he didn't fictionalize it himself.

He did how ever offer his own advise on how to conduct the investigation.

Check out the book "The Real World of Sherlock Holmes" it features real life crimes that Arthur Conan Doyle helped to investigate and solve. But never used Holmes in because he knew where to draw the line.

Hello Cathrine! It is a great point that people shouldn't forget that Jack the Ripper was a real killer, and real women did die. A great deal of material about sensational crimes are well, sensationalistic hack jobs, fiction or nonfiction. But I also do think that writers (and artists and musicians, ect.) can mix real life crime and tragedy with their work. In fact, for me at least, there was nothing that made the women the Ripper killed more real and human, and their deaths more tragic, than reading about them in Alan Moore's From Hell. It's like, I knew intellectually that they were real, and that they died horribly, but I didn't emotionally know it until I was brought into their world. It's what good fiction does, and, me being me, I need that.

Wow Catherine, great point!. Although I do agree with Joanna that it can be good to mix fiction and nonfiction crime(and I do think ACD would've done a good job), I can see some fans mixing it too much in their minds, and diluting the reality of it.

Oh, and Joanna, what exactly is From Hell about? It sounds kind of neat!

From Hell is a graphic novel about the Ripper murders, but not so much focusing on the murders themselves but on the misogyny, violence, insanity, and poverty that surround the characters. It's not a mystery; there's never the question of who because you know who Jack is already. It's meticulously researched but it is definately fiction. The writer himself admits which parts are wholly from his own imagination. I highly, highly recommend it.

Just thought I'd let you know That the essay mentioned by Hedry isn't in the "Sherlock Holmes Scrapbook." Unless there is more than one edition.
I am enjoying the scrapbook though an excellent collection Holmes paraphenalia.

Hi all,

New here on this group, good to meet you.

Lively talk here on Jack the Ripper also. I certainly can relate to comments of the Ripper as fact/fiction and how Conan Doyle's contemporary stories appear influenced by the true events.

I'm the author of a soon to be released non-fiction book that may interest you, titled "Jack the Ripper and Black Magic : Victorian Conspiracy Theories, Secret Societies and the Supernatural Mystique of the Whitechapel Murders".

Not a great deal on Conan Doyle or Sherlock but what there is does cover his interests in crimes of his period and the supernatural, on which he also wrote extensively.

I am aware, and the comment was made, that the Ripper lends himself to fan-fiction easily. And my book was written intended as a source for both fiction and more historical approaches. Creative non-fiction. I easily agree that the more fictional elements are as important as the facts because in an unsolved Victorian crime such as this, people needed some form of closure for the victims even if it is fiction. True events can inspire great stories that are in a sense cathartic for society I suppose.

Anyway, I hope that if of interest, you find the book an enjoyable and informative read.

Cheers
Spiro

Jack the Ripper and Black Magic: Victorian Conspiracy Theories, Secret Societies and the Supernatural Mystique of the Whitechapel Murders

Hi all,

For those waiting on news of my new book, "Jack the Ripper and Black Magic: Victorian Conspiracy Theories, Secret Societies and the Supernatural Mystique of the Whitechapel Murders", it is released and now available.

Thanks
Spiro Dimolianis

Jack the Ripper and Black Magic: Victorian Conspiracy Theories, Secret Societies and the Supernatural Mystique of the Whitechapel Murders

I don't mind placing fictional characters in factual cases, but it makes sense that Doyle would not do it. Holmes first appeared at the end of 1887, and the murders happened in the summer and fall of 1888. The next Holmes story was not published until 1890.
What I found interesting, however, is that in the first collection you have several stories where the culprit gets away - A Scandal in Bohemia, A Case of Identity, The Five Orange Pips, The Blue Carbuncle (Holmes lets him off), or have a conclusion that is unsatisfactory for the client (The Noble Bachelor) or a "failure" for Holmes (The Yellow Face, and again, Five Orange Pips).

I'm afraid I'm guilty of placing the real life crimes of Jack the Ripper in a Sherlock Holmes novel. It seemed to me a natural fit, as well it seemed that the fictionalized Ripper might well be a paranormal murderer. I had not read or seen anywhere a work in which the three almost archetyps characters of detective (Holmes), homicidal maniac (Ripper) and paranormal murderer (vampire). It presented me with a challenge to remain as true as possible to the mystique of all three. The reader must judge how well I achieved my goal.

Artistic license. I find a theory that might make sense. The tabloids of the day took a number of brutal and random murders, then created the myth of Jack the Ripper. I read that in one true crime blog a few years ago.

I don't believe that they were random at all...I'm not convinced there were only five and there are others who share that theory. I think a true psychopath works his way up to murder, and once achieving may become more creative...the fact the five were all "unfortunates" might be because as such they were more "available"...

I tend to agree with you, but I did find it an interesting theory. The big question is why wasn't he caught.

David wrote: "Artistic license. I find a theory that might make sense. The tabloids of the day took a number of brutal and random murders, then created the myth of Jack the Ripper. I read that in one true crime ..."

That is very interesting! I haven't read any nonfictional accounts of the murders, but it seems plausible. I don't know if it is more plausible than a serial killer, though. Do you have the link to that blog entry by any chance?

Here you go:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/artic...

Link to book on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/JACK-THE-RIPPER...

I think Doyle was wise to make the choice he did. Time has softened things a bit, making writing pastiche more palatable, but as with the the earlier 'Austin Ripper' (for which coincidentally the same Manillan cook was questioned in both sets of crimes), fears and tempers ran high. I think the reading public, used to seeing Holmes solve the unsolvable in his stories might actually have expected some supernatural effort from Doyle.

Here is a link to many fun facts about the Ripper murders:

http://www.casebook.org

By the way, I've been moving things about and found a copy of this: Dust and Shadow: An Account of the Ripper Killings by Dr. John H. Watson . It's been a while since I read it, and I don't recall it with vivid detail. I did at least finish it. How true it was to the killings or as a pastiche I'm drawing a blank with. I kept it, so at least it didn't immediately go to the used book store. Maybe that says something.

Sorry for the tepid review. I just thought the book was at least on topic.

I have not read "Dust and Shadow" but have corresponded with the author when I was writing my book, "Sherlock Holmes and the Whitechapel Vampire".

She is a very nice person and was encouraging to me...I believe it, unlike my own book, is true to the pastiche style. I know she has claimed, as have I, to have done a great deal of research on the killings themselves. I've taken a few liberties to make it fit the vampire tale, but not too many with the facts of the case.

Well, now that Patricia Cornwell's figured out who he was, Sugden and Begg can move on... ;)

Talk about times softening things a bit...

http://londonprobaseball.com/

Baseball team named "Rippers" with mascot Jack

There's a pretty good BBC series called 'Whitechapel'. The first season was about someone copycatting the Ripper murders in modern times. The second season is someone 'doubling' the Kray Twins. The sad thing is, there's been enough notorious murderers there they could probably run for several seasons.

As a change from writing Holmes pastiches my next novel will feature Jack the Ripper in his own words and those of his victims.

David wrote: "As a change from writing Holmes pastiches my next novel will feature Jack the Ripper in his own words and those of his victims."

I'm very interested in Jack the Ripper so I'll definitely be getting that book when it comes out David. My own book is littered with Jack the Ripper references (couldn't help it). I'm a good way into reading The Lyme Regis Horror now and am loving it by the way (I'll do a proper review for it when I'm finished).

Thats so exciting David! I've been really into Jack the Ripper things at the moment. I've been playing Sherlock vs Jack the Ripper on Steam and I just finished which was pretty good. (though more about The Thames Torso Murders with a supernatural twist)

On another topic I mentioned a book I heard about and which has quite a few GR reviews - it's called "The Five" and it is extensive biographies of the five main Ripper victims.
Plan to get to it soon.

Relevant to the JTR discussion and the Oscar Wilde discussion - just saw that there was a book published a couple years ago, "Oscar Wilde and the Return of Jack the Ripper." The author is Gyles Brandreth, who's written several Wilde mystery novels.

I was thinking about Jack the Ripper books and lo and behold, Wikipedia has a listing for "Jack the Ripper in Fiction." Not necessarily Holmes stories. Most of them, I hadn't heard of.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_th...

there are a couple of films with jack the ripper and sherlock holmes!

i checked the wikipedia address thank you very much

Right now, I'm reading a book called "The Watcher" by Sam Croft (it seems there are a few dozen books titled 'The Watcher') A different take on the Ripper, and I think I know where the author's taking it, but it's well written, a good feel for the era, much better than a lot of the more well-known Ripper novels out there.
https://www.amazon.com/Watcher-Jack-R...