Tips for Self Promotion, Sales, and Advertising discussion

Well, it is, right? Especially on the one-on-one level? I'm doing the social media thing, networking, etc. I come from a screenwriting background in Hollywood so I've got some connections, but sometimes I struggle with the finessing of it... ("We haven't spoken in a while, how's life? Btw, I have a book out..." lol)

What I think has been most surprising for me has been both who has supported my novel and who hasn't. I've had old friends from high school whom I haven't seen in years buy a copy on the first day it was out, and family members who still haven't bought one.

I recently sent a heart-felt email letting some of the hold-outs know that it's not about their $2.99, as much as it is helping my sales rank and visibility, and how much I appreciate them supporting my ambition. Ultimately, my novel sales have to move into the realm of the general public, but those initial friend and family sales can help do that. I've had several bloggers agree to review the book, so hopefully that will give me a push.

Anyway, I suppose this isn't so much of a "tip" as a commiseration. If you're feeling like it's an uphill battle, I'm right there with you. Beyond all the liking and tagging, etc that people on the forum are doing to support each other, I think just knowing we are in the same boat can be inspiring.

I believe in my novel and believe it will succeed, even if by inches as opposed to leaps and bounds.

Best of luck to all of you out there plugging away, and if you've had a recent success, post it!

Btw, my email worked--I generated more sales and reviews. Sometimes people just need to know their action will matter, before they'll take it.

I got so burned out with the self promoting thing, I had to put it on the back burner for awhile; as it was working against me. All it did in the end was discourage me when I failed to see results!

I have experienced my friends and family not buying my books (both times) and it was and is hard to understand!

I appreciate your honesty, as you can see I am going through the same!

Much luck and success to you!

Much luck to you, also, Deborah!

Sorry to hear you're feeling discouraged, but it's totally understandable. Don't give up though--that's the only way to guarantee you won't succeed.

Deborah wrote: "I got so burned out with the self promoting thing, I had to put it on the back burner for awhile; as it was working against me.
Deborah and others,
If we believe in what we do and our motives are right, we will be very satisfied with out efforts. Keep in mind that with modern technology anyone who wants to write a book, can. Any author without previous best seller or earned best seller quality is competing against millions of published writers and many more books in number as many of these millions of authors have multiple books. I have twenty books of my own with somewhere around eighteen someplace in the market today. So, having introduced this thought with that: If we write for money, DON'T count on it, If we write for fame, DON'T expect it, If we write for number one on the hit parade, it WONT happen. All is not lost, those of us who write for pleasure, to help others regardless of profit, and to inspire youth are going to be very comfortable with what we do. When I get one thank you note from a young person, my day is made and my effort is justified and I get many such notes. So, don't get discouraged, double check the status of new writers and examine your reasons for writing. You might find that you are pleasantly surprised to find that you love writing and keep after it with a passion. I know--I do. If you have any doubts, take a look at this link.
http://www.amazon.com/-/e/B002CB3V24

As an after thought, if you expect to be a sensation overnight, that too wont happen. It takes a lifetime of writing to be a great author.

It is weird when relatives and friends don't show any interest in reading your book. I was in a discussion thread about this once before on a blog post and someone made the point that there are many reasons why this happens. Some people don't like to read. They might be worried that they won't like it and then have to face you and lie or admit they didn't like it. (Both aren't fun!) Some people might be jealous. Or they might not realize how important it is to you. It's very common. Frankly...i'm kind of glad that most of my relatives haven't read my first book. And probably better they skip the second one, too! I think it would freak them out. :-)

I also want to note that self-promoting on this website (and others) is a tightrope walk. It's really easy to collect "friends" here, but that doesn't mean they're friends. When you post in groups or on message board threads - we always have to use our best judgement as to mentioning our own work. It can come across as very phony and self-serving. I know a few authors have gotten booted from Groups for being too promotional. It's a question of authenticity vs. selling.

Oh, I totally agree, David. Other than when I posted a coupon code for my work (in an author thread where it was allowed) I have refrained from doing that. I really do love YA (which is prob why I write it!) so I have no problem being in groups that focus on that. I (hopefully) have something to add to the conversation w/o pushing my own work.

When I posted I was talking about that tightrope you speak of--not only on here--trying to balance letting my core group of people know about my novel without being pushy, etc...

It's a very fine line to walk, wherever you're walking it!

In addition, I find it hard to be in "promotion mode" for my current novel, while in "creation mode" for the sequel. They seem to be two different parts of my brain, lol.

Christina: Your comments hit home. As a newly published author, I found the same thing happened to me. My mother-in-law and sister-in-law don't even acknowledge that I write, (been writing for 15 years) while an old high school friend who lives across the country as far away as you can get, who I haven't heard from in ages, just e-mailed me saying, "I Love It! Your book is fabulous." I am also new to social networking and it is hard to become that person out there peddling another book. Yet, when they hear about it, they get excited. Sold two at the nail salon already just by mentioning that I write and a quick summary. Go Figure!

David wrote: "It is weird when relatives and friends don't show any interest in reading your book. I was in a discussion thread about this once before on a blog post and someone made the point that there are man..."

David, despite all of that, it kinda hurts. My stepdaughters and their families aren't readers even though my son-in-law is a school teacher. It's really depressing at times to think they don't even care enough to buy or read the book. Can't help wondering if they expect comp copies to be given them rather than paying for it. Personally, I'm at a loss to really figure it. I've had friends say they'll buy it, but based on Kindle reports, none of them have. I sometimes wonder if we haven't become so conditioned to "FREE" books, magazines, newspapers, etc., on the Internet that we've come to expect it all for free. I tried an introductory offer of my new police procedural for more than a month at 99-cents and few takers. Sheesh.

Dr wrote: "Deborah wrote: "I got so burned out with the self promoting thing, I had to put it on the back burner for awhile; as it was working against me.
Deborah and others,
If we believe in what we do and..."

Dr wrote: "Deborah wrote: "I got so burned out with the self promoting thing, I had to put it on the back burner for awhile; as it was working against me.
Deborah and others,
If we believe in what we do and..."

Sorry, but couldn't disagree with you more. Those who write for pleasure, simply make it more difficult for those of us who are struggling to make a living in an already tough marketplace.

Larry - I hear you. It certainly does hurt sometimes. But I guess they can't relate, and that's just the way it is.

Christina wrote: "In addition, I find it hard to be in "promotion mode" for my current novel, while in "creation mode" for the sequel. They seem to be two different parts of my brain, lol."

I have to say a few things here as this seems to be a very common topic among all writers: young, old, or in between. My first novel is becoming a lower ranking in amazon everyday, and with that in mind, I have another book on my shelves just waiting to be re-edited and formatted for ebook.

I have also started the sequel to
Book One: The Growing Dim Project but find it hard to finish writing it while promoting The Growing Dim Project, preparing another to be formatted and I attend college online as well. (not to mention the 60 hours I put into work every week!)

How are some of you balacing all these things going on with your books? I'm curious to see where the efforts are placed when multiple titles are released....

Thanks for reading.

Nicholas.

Nicholas wrote: "Christina wrote: "In addition, I find it hard to be in "promotion mode" for my current novel, while in "creation mode" for the sequel. They seem to be two different parts of my brain, lol."

I ha..."

Nicholas, WOW!
Sounds like you have the juggling act well under control. I envy you your youth and energy. Use it wisely. Seems like just yesterday I was starting out as a journalist. seems like being the key phrase. That was 1963. Sigh.

David wrote: "Larry - I hear you. It certainly does hurt sometimes. But I guess they can't relate, and that's just the way it is."

David wrote: "Larry - I hear you. It certainly does hurt sometimes. But I guess they can't relate, and that's just the way it is."

David, so true. :-(

Nicholas - I'm generally in the same boat. I've worked at a job that varies from 40 - 60 hours per week for the past 14 years. I would run home, wolf my food, and hit the notebooks (I prefer writing by hand) and then write more on the weekend. It took me seven years at it to finish my second novel, which will be coming out later this year. Now that i'm going through the process of publishing it, I don't have the window of opportunity to write. Plus, i've got a 1 year old daughter now who takes up a great deal of my free time (in a good way). Once this second book is out the door, I'll probably use the spare time to work on promoting it for about a year and then pick up writing again. I may dabble in writing, but not in a dedicated fashion. It's just not feasible for me to do both...unless I can quit my day job!

Right now, as I write the sequel to Gateway, I am not working a day job, though I have had 60 hour a week jobs when writing scripts and when I wrote the first draft of my novel.

What I've tried to do to balance both creation and promotion mode is that when I'm writing (during the day) and I take a 15 minute break to read email and web surf, I make note of promotional opportunities I come across, which I then address when I'm finished writing for the day. I'm certainly not as fresh at the end of the day, but I've chosen to use my "fresh" self for writing. I generally write 5 days a week, so on my days "off" I dedicate a few hours to promotion. (Contacting book bloggers, etc) It definitely feels all-consuming, but if that's what it takes, that's what it takes...

Btw, when I wrote the first draft of Gateway during NanoWriMo, I was working on a show that was pretty hectic, so in preparation for it I went into hyper-drive at work, getting done every single thing that I could so that I would have no reason to be stressed or behind during NanoWriMo. It really helped. Back when I waited tables I'd pick up extra shifts and save the money in preparation for giving away some shifts while in the writing process. Preparation has gone a long way for me. It's only b/c of my stringent money habits that I can afford to take a little time off now, to write my sequel.

Thanks to all of you for your transparency and honesty. Yesterday I was encouraging a friend of mine...whom I'd considered to be my BEST friend...on her way to the doctor's office. She said she anticipated a long wait and had brought a good book. Oh? I waited, knowing she hasn't read my book yet even though I gave her a copy months ago. "I brought a good Nora Roberts, I know hers won't put me to sleep." Ouch.

Keep your chins up! and let's keep each other's backs.
Bev

true, indeed, Nathaniel. I wonder if we can somehow do an anonymous survey - not of our own relatives and friends, but in general of "Friends & Relatives of Writers" and collect the data and report back the percentage who have various excuses. It might look something like this:

40% Ize dont reads buks
20% I don't actually like the author, s/he just thinks I do
10% I'm afraid I won't like the book and then have to lie about it for the rest of my life to this person
10% I'm jealous
10% It's not a genre of writing I've ever wanted to read
5% What's the big deal?
5% I'm an angry person.

David wrote: "true, indeed, Nathaniel. I wonder if we can somehow do an anonymous survey - not of our own relatives and friends, but in general of "Friends & Relatives of Writers" and collect the data and report..."

That's hilarious, David. Love. It.

Beverly wrote: "Thanks to all of you for your transparency and honesty. Yesterday I was encouraging a friend of mine...whom I'd considered to be my BEST friend...on her way to the doctor's office. She said she ant..."

Double ouch and yeah, I know the feeling. I've had friends say they were buying my Kindle book, then the sales aren't there. I know they didn't buy it but can't even say anything. Argh!

David, anonymous survey is a cool idea. We'll phone each others' friends. Of course, all it will do is build frustration. I can't ever challenge friends and family as to why they didn't buy the book. In fairness, they don't realize that a cluster of sales can move us up in the ratings, especially if good reviews also are posted to build future interest.

Dr wrote: "Deborah wrote: "I got so burned out with the self promoting thing, I had to put it on the back burner for awhile; as it was working against me.
Deborah and others,
If we believe in what we do and..."

No, I must disagree. I believe the Harry Potter books were J. K. Rowling's first efforts.
It's not just writing, it's fiction writing. Conversely, I'm a pretty darned good journalist and publicist, but still trying to hone the creative writing mode.

Someone once said you should do at least 1 thing each day, whether posting on Facebook or sending out postcards. Not sure how much in $ you spend or if most of you are in print or ebook but there are inexpensive ads like at Kindleboards.com Scroll down to the bottom where they explain "book a day" ads and "banner" ads. Also redadept.com has ads as cheap as $10. I had a 50% increase in sales with my Kindleboards banner ad. My red adept banner won't run until June 26.

Larry wrote: "David wrote: "It is weird when relatives and friends don't show any interest in reading your book. I was in a discussion thread about this once before on a blog post and someone made the point that..."

I agree with you! I've had the same experience. Friends and family say they'll get the book, yet never do. I really do think it's because I don't offer them a free copy. I only have so many free copies from the publisher and most are these are earmarked for sending out as review copies. It is frustrating!

S.D. wrote: "Someone once said you should do at least 1 thing each day, whether posting on Facebook or sending out postcards. Not sure how much in $ you spend or if most of you are in print or ebook but there ..."

SD, perhaps you're onto something. I keep reading how such ads don't work, yet yours have. Sour grapes from others with less compelling ads? I Don't pretend to know. Just one question, In terms of commissions, did you at least recoup the cost of the ads?

S.D.: I'm curious as well, did you recoup your investment with regards to advertising on the Kindleboards?

Larry, Sofia: I have had the same thing happen! It would seem to me it's just easier to spend $3 on my ebook than lie about having done it, but who knows?? (Especially living in LA, if you had any idea how many bands, short films, etc. I have supported...)

The first friend who read an advanced copy wrote me a rave review via email, yet hasn't posted that review on Amazon, despite promises to do so. (It's been over 2 months) Hard to know why people do (or don't do) things...

Christina wrote: "S.D.: I'm curious as well, did you recoup your investment with regards to advertising on the Kindleboards?

Larry, Sofia: I have had the same thing happen! It would seem to me it's just easier to s..."

Yes, I hear you. Unfortunately when it comes to a good answer for that problem my crystal ball keeps clouding up. ;-)

David wrote: "true, indeed, Nathaniel. I wonder if we can somehow do an anonymous survey - not of our own relatives and friends, but in general of "Friends & Relatives of Writers" and collect the data and report..."

HA HA HA! Thanks, David - you gave me a real chuckle this morning with your survey results! For myself, I actually don't expect much from my friends with respect to buying my books. There are a 101 possible reasons why they aren't buying, and I don't try to second guess them. Especially since I'm writing for a younger group anyways. If all they do is mention to someone that "Hey, you know, I've got a friend who's published a YA book your kid might like", I'm thrilled.

S.D. - nice to hear that paid adverts have an impact. What are other people's experiences? My first paid advert will be running in July on Flamingnet.

S.D. wrote: "Someone once said you should do at least 1 thing each day, whether posting on Facebook or sending out postcards. Not sure how much in $ you spend or if most of you are in print or ebook but there ..."

Good to know, S.D. thanks for sharing!

Debra wrote: "S.D. wrote: "Someone once said you should do at least 1 thing each day, whether posting on Facebook or sending out postcards. Not sure how much in $ you spend or if most of you are in print or ebo..."

"Someone" apparently didn't understand today's marketplace. Unless you're already a bestselling author, one thing a day is the route to sure failure. Just take a look at the sheer volume of promotion being done by the Joe Konraths and Vince Zandris of the world.
As I said in my book on author promotion: "If you thought writing the book was tough, I’ve a news flash for you. The toughest part of book publishing will be the months immediately ahead.
"By now, you’re relatively comfortable with the writing style you were using for your current book. Perhaps you’re even raring to go with a sequel. Go ahead. Get started, but remember, that should be a back-burner item. If your first book isn’t successful, chances are you won’t find a publisher for a second book."

Christina wrote: "Well, it is, right? Especially on the one-on-one level? I'm doing the social media thing, networking, etc. I come from a screenwriting background in Hollywood so I've got some connections, but some..."

Hi I'm from Perth Western Australia and trying to promote a book in the states is so daunting that at times it seems like I'm waisting my time. Trying to get family and friends to read my book is also impossible. Plus the other thing that is a big shock is how many people write books. If I hadn't tapped into all these sights I wouldn't have believed it. How do famous people become famous, makes one wonder.

Nathaniel wrote: "S.D. wrote: "Someone once said you should do at least 1 thing each day, whether posting on Facebook or sending out postcards. Not sure how much in $ you spend or if most of you are in print or ebo..."

The theater meet and greet sounds excellent, but the ad sounds like it was counterproductive. It took too long to get viewed and I suspect you lost money based on ad cost.

I had $150 free use of google adwords, so i used it. Why not, right? It seemed to generate several hundred clickthroughs total to my book, but i didn't notice any sales! I was quite honest in my ad description so I don't think it was at all misleading. But the thing is, you don't know if people buy later or not. People don't buy on the spot. Sometimes it stays with them for a while, and then the next time they want to buy a book, they look it up. It's hard to directly correlate these things. But from my experience, I don't think i'd do Adwords again unless it was free.

Beth - promoting outside one's own city is tough, let alone one's own country! The internet is the grand unifier, but even there, i think we all can see that with everyone trying to promote on the web, it's cluttered and hard to break through. No easy answers! But I strongly agree with Nathaniel about local promotion. I live in Chicago, a big city, which gives me an advantage - bigger audience, more bookstores. Also, because i didn't do POD like Createspace, i had the books on hand to distribute them to local bookstores. I also distributed postcards at coffeeshops, threw up some posters, had a large book release party, did several readings, made the rounds to bookstores, etc. I was interviewed in a local paper and on Chicago's NPR affiliate. As a result, i sold over 1000 copies of my first novel, which, as I understand it, is quite good for a self-published book. Making the most of local publicity is a great way to go.

David wrote: "I had $150 free use of google adwords, so i used it. Why not, right? It seemed to generate several hundred clickthroughs total to my book, but i didn't notice any sales! I was quite honest in my ad..."

David, congratulations on those 1,000+ sales. For a self-published book (or any book these days) that is a big achievement! And you're right, local, in-person selling is the best place to start. I've been told (and it seems to work) that you start close to home, then branch out a little at a time.

I read somewhere that the average book sells only 250 copies, so you're well ahead of the game!

Choosing the right month is also important. Last Nov., I tried selling at local Christmas craft fairs--not the ones that charge $250 a table, but the smaller ones that many high schools host for $25 to $50 a table, and it was so profitable that I sold more books in Nov. than the other 11 months put together.

Lots of people really do like to support local authors. It's up to us to give them different ways to find our books.

Debra, good for you. That's an excellent way to ignite sales. One of many techniques in my book on self-promotion.
Best,

Larry

Nathaniel wrote: "Hello Everyone,

I've found this discussion quite worthwhile and interesting so far.

I'd be interested in some opinions on a service that was recently solicited to me. A representative from a comp..."

Hi, Nathaniel (great name by the way - two characters in one of my books have that name :-) I am not familiar with the company, but I can say with utmost confidence that you should ONLY buy promotion services with existing profits of a release. In other words, if you aren't making a profit yet, you probably aren't ready for the paid promotions. I'm still learning my way, but this past week I saw my best overall digital sales ever. For me it has just been the result of following Focus House Publishing's directions to the letter. I've been blogging, social networking more, and have started posting stories and biographical shorts on various sites. Neither Focus House nor I have yet paid anything for the outreach (though Focuse House does hire Carrie Rourke to harrass me into doing all of the above :-) I'm no expert, but those are my thoughts. By the way, I think we might all want to consider Larry's book (see above in the thread). Support your friends and fellow authors, I have always said :-)

Nathaniel, I just read a blog cautioning against such services, for various reasons that made sense to me at the time, but escape me at the moment, lol. The general consensus was that they just aren't effective enough to pay for themselves. Unless you've been maxing out your social networking, blogging, etc, I wouldn't consider it.

Nathaniel wrote: "Larry wrote: "Nathaniel wrote: "S.D. wrote: "Someone once said you should do at least 1 thing each day, whether posting on Facebook or sending out postcards. Not sure how much in $ you spend or if..."

Everyone is different as to what's best for them once beyond the basics of product promotion. I have a dozen authors in my book, some quite well known, and they have varying but successful methods that work for them. Even genre and release timing can affect the success of a particular method. Hope that helps.

Nathaniel wrote: "Tim wrote: "Nathaniel wrote: "Hello Everyone,

I've found this discussion quite worthwhile and interesting so far.

I'd be interested in some opinions on a service that was recently solicited to me..."

Hi Nathanial, thanks for the To Be Read. FYI, It's available as a Kindle EBook in addition to the paperback version at considerable saving.

Christina wrote: "Nathaniel, I just read a blog cautioning against such services, for various reasons that made sense to me at the time, but escape me at the moment, lol. The general consensus was that they just are..."

Christina, good point. Having been in the book promotion biz for many years, I'm suspicious of outside services that are "low budget" and suspect the results are comparable. They go through the motions, but there's not enough financial incentive for a concerted push on the part of the author.

David you make some very interesting and constructive points. Well worth considering if one decideds to do some self promoting. Motivation and confidence is a big factor in all this. Sometimes I think if I go to great lengths to advertise my book and everyone hates it, I'll end up with a massive amount of egg on my face but I guess that's all part of the risk factor. Most people who have read my book have liked it but then they are all friends and would hardly agree to the contrary.

Larry wrote: "Nathaniel wrote: "Tim wrote: "Nathaniel wrote: "Hello Everyone,

I've found this discussion quite worthwhile and interesting so far.

I'd be interested in some opinions on a service that was recent..."

Hi, Larry: You're in my "to-read" cue as well. I have three story submissions on tap "I'm between edit rounds this week," but I suspect next week I'll download your book and see what gems you have to share :-)

I wish someone would download my book.

Beth - motivation and confidence, you are right. Unfortunately, being a creator in the world, harsh criticism is to be expected. I've had quite a few good reviews and several really nasty ones as well. It's painful, but you have to go into it expecting that. Even the potential for overall condemnation...it can happen. Being an artist takes courage because you're putting a creation out into the world and if people hate it, it feels like they hate you. All you can do is be Zen about it. That's the way it is.

I always download the first copy of my book just to get a ranking. :) Am I the only one who does this?

Tim wrote: "Larry wrote: "Nathaniel wrote: "Tim wrote: "Nathaniel wrote: "Hello Everyone,

I've found this discussion quite worthwhile and interesting so far.

I'd be interested in some opinions on a servi..."

Thank you! :-)

Beth wrote: "David you make some very interesting and constructive points. Well worth considering if one decideds to do some self promoting. Motivation and confidence is a big factor in all this. Sometimes I th..."

Beth, consider yourself lucky that friends have read it. Some of us have encountered the no-read syndrome from friends and family. Arrgh! :-(

Nathaniel wrote: "Hello Everyone,

I've found this discussion quite worthwhile and interesting so far.

I'd be interested in some opinions on a service that was recently solicited to me. A representative from a comp..."

Nathaniel, for whatever it's worth: I spent many years as a highly successful book publicist. However, the target markets have changed. I.e., far few newspapers overall, and even less that do book reviews. That hurts all of us. Social networks are only the answer if your book targets the YA or 20-30 years old age market.
Earlier today I posted an Ogilvy PR study on social networking and target audiences. Lots of good info there. Essentially, unless you have bestseller potential to rival Tom Clancy or James Patterson, I'd tread cautiously about these "Chinese Menu" promotion service firms. I doubt any rival a full service PR agency and that can get expensive.
As I say early-on in my book: The average author probably won’t do as good a job handling publicity as a professional publicist. There are notable exceptions such as J.A. Konrath who devotes massive amounts of time to promoting his books. “When you write a book, it’s your name on the cover. You should be the one who dictates its success or failure.
"It’s your book. It’s your job to sell it,“ he points out. Konrath has written numerous short stories and is the author of the Jack Daniels series of mystery novels.

Great information, once again, Larry :-)