Green Group discussion

What topic would you guys like to read about in August?

Difficult choice....I am definitely no expert in this area of choosing books for environmental discussions.

But maybe something in the area of vegetarianism? Have you all had a topic like that?

We have not. There are a number of excellent books on the topic, however. I'd be down to read about it.

Ok Sounds like a good plan. I think I have one in my goodreads folders SOMEWHERE.....I will look for it, but I would think any topic on vegetarian or meatless or the meat industry would be a good read.

Eating Animals
Some We Love, Some We Hate, Some We Eat: Why It's So Hard to Think Straight About Animals

Are the two that leap immediately to mind

I've heard good (read: horrifying) things about Eating Animals, and the other doesn't sound bad, but neither seem to focus on the environmental impact of eating animals, only human biology and psychology, which interest me, but might be a bit off the group topic?

The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals has a pretty substantial portion dedicated to meat production. Has everyone read it? If not, I'll toss it in the list. I think it's especially useful because it gets into other agricultural abominations. The destructive impact of the food industry can't be fixed by vegetarianism alone. If we're just looking for something making a case for vegetarianism, perhaps one of the others is better, but if we want a more comprehensive picture of the repercussions of our food choices, I'd go for this, or something like it.

I really enjoyed Dominion: The Power of Man, the Suffering of Animals, and the Call to Mercy. Scully comes from a conservative, right-wing Christian background and he takes his brethren to task with this book. it's pretty amazing.

All of those sound great. I did not know much about the meat industry until I read Skinny Bitch: A No-Nonsense, Tough-Love Guide for Savvy Girls Who Want to Stop Eating Crap and Start Looking Fabulous!. I was shocked at the few small facts those women put into that book!

Environmental science is a very far reaching discipline that includes biology and human psychology, but I see your point. I've read both Pollen's book and Dominion for Environmental Ethics, and thought they were interesting. Most of the people I know that are vegetarians choose that lifestyle for ethical reasons, so that's what more has been written on.

Skinny Bitch: A No-Nonsense, Tough-Love Guide for Savvy Girls Who Want to Stop Eating Crap and Start Looking Fabulous! is supposed to be a really good read...sadly my male professor wasn't into that as a suggested work for class :)

Four Fish: The Future of the Last Wild Food and The End of the Line: How Overfishing Is Changing the World and What We Eat focus more on fisheries, but that is still a serious concern environmentally. Eating certain fish is probably almost as damaging (if not more) as beef, pork, or chicken.

How about, The Way We Eat: Why Our Food Choices Matter or MAD COWBOY: Plain Truth from the Cattle Rancher Who Won't Eat Meat.

The Skinny Bitch book is pretty good although it is not about environmentalism, it does have a lot of good info to get a person started. It was a real eye opener for me. After I read that book I did not eat meat for a long time and now I am getting back to the no meat thing again.

It was recommended to me by a sorority sister, so I didn't really expect it to be an environmental book, but I'm still looking forward to reading it. I find that reading books that aren't necessarily "environmental" often inspire me or add to ideas already floating in my mind that I can apply to environmental topics. I think it's because they aren't trying to do that, so I can un-focus from the topic for a bit and let things stew in the back of my mind.

Back on topic-I hunt, fish, and eat meat, so I'm really not the best with this topic.

I read this earlier this year, a brilliant work by a Nobel literature laureate, J. M. Coetzee:
The Lives of Animals

Although not just about vegetarianism, but bringing in wider issues of animal rights and empathy, it is a superb form of academic novel (a novel genre, forgive the pun). The four commentaries that accompany the central work by Coetzee are good, too. For people who like good writing as well as writing on animals/nature, this is well worth a read, and re-read. Cheers!

i was vegan for years and now eat meat so i am probably not the best person for recommending vegetarian-specific books or that promote vegetarianism as the "best" diet, either, but i would really like to read things about how we do or don't raise food. i think there are a lot of issues related to environment and social justice (for farm workers as well as animals raised for food) that are really important and can affect how we think about policy (as well as our diets). and i think things have been changing quite a lot in the past ten years, perhaps in large part because of the vegan/vegetarian movement. there are a lot of issues wrapped up in this topic! :D

There are a lot of policy things involved, including the Farm Bills, food exports, etc etc. This could go a million directions.

NPR did a little story on a new book about industrial farming that might be one for consideration: Tomatoland: How Modern Industrial Agriculture Destroyed Our Most Alluring Fruit.

That could be cool

What about Food Inc.: A Participant Guide: How Industrial Food is Making Us Sicker, Fatter, and Poorer-And What You Can Do About It?

Kirsten wrote: "What about Food Inc.: A Participant Guide: How Industrial Food is Making Us Sicker, Fatter, and Poorer-And What You Can Do About It?"

i watched the documentary and it was really eye-opening, even for someone like me who thought she knew a thing or two. it might pair nicely with
Your Farm in the City: An Urban-Dweller's Guide to Growing Food and Raising Animals.

In that vein, I've put a few books about "Urban Homesteading" on my to-read shelf recently:

Urban Homesteading: Heirloom Skills for Sustainable Living
Gaia's Garden: A Guide To Home-Scale Permaculture

These two also go into other things like dealing with greywater and certain other wastes (skim the Toolbox reviews!):
The Urban Homestead: Your Guide to Self-sufficient Living in the Heart of the City
Toolbox for Sustainable City Living: A Do-It-Ourselves Guide

And on the larger agricultural scale, this book looks amazing:
Permaculture: A Designers' Manual
For those unfamiliar with the concepts behind permaculture, they are essential in the road to sustainable food production. Though, perhaps the author's shorter book is best for a group read:
Introduction to Permaculture

Those sound awesome! I love to read about sustainability and what I can do for myself.

I kind of drew the line when we veered off into sustainable urban living/farming, figured that could be a whole other month entirely! November?

Kirsten wrote: "I kind of drew the line when we veered off into sustainable urban living/farming, figured that could be a whole other month entirely! November?"

sure! sounds great. we can all be dreaming about and planning our "farms" for springtime... :D

There you go! I just figured since 5ish books had been suggested on the topic there was interest. And there are already 11 choices for August's poll :)

i just came across this and though it matched our topic for August pretty well...wait, what's our topic exactly?

No real idea, actually. Animals? Eating them? Environmental (moral?) impacts of eating them?

I just watched a documentary called Food Matters. WOW that is such an eye opener!

jennbunny wrote: "I just watched a documentary called Food Matters. WOW that is such an eye opener!"

is that related to Omnivore's Dilemma?

You know I don't really know. I just happened to see it on Netflix and thought I would watch it. I have not done any research to find out what it is related to. I have known for a while the benefits of eating raw foods and mega doses of vitamins, but never have practiced them. Since I have CMT (charcot marie tooth), I have been checking into the benefits and studies of vitamin C.

I think there is a book that goes with it...it showed up when I searched for omnivore's dilemma in my public library catalog.

I never heard of CMT but I do know about CMJ (nothing to do with vitamins I don't think). I just found out my vitamin D is really really low so I've been learning about that. D is fascinating. I have a vegan friend who just made raw lasagna...I could get some cookbook or (no)cookbook recommendations foe you if you'd like...

That would be awesome Marieke. You know....it is funny you mention Vitamin D. A girl I know was just diagnosed with low Vitamin D. I wonder if it is afflicting more and more people nowadays. I have never been tested for any vitamin deficiencies but my husband insists I have low something (I can't remember what it is right now).

CMT is an inherited peripheral neuropathy. There is no cure and only forms of treatment to help stabilize it.

D deficiency is definitely a big problem these days...partly because of sunblock, but my other problem is that I have svere lactose intolerance and I was vegan for a long time. D is super interesting because research in the past 15 years has shown that it is also a hormone and has a bearing on autoimmune issues. I'm already feeling better since I started my daily supplements. I have more energy and don't feel like I have to peel myself (painfully) out of bed or out of a car. Crazy!

Vitamins can help stabilize CMT?

There are a few studies with rats and people about the affects of Vitamin C on CMT. I have read a bit on it and I think I am going to start taking some Vitamin C. BUT the kicker is....when vitamin C is processed (or basically heated), it loses its nutritional value. SO...I will have to read a bit more on this subject. It would seem either a natural organic supplement is needed or unprocessed oranges to make juice etc. I will try to find the study again and the article about the vitamin C. Apparently mega doses have a huge health improvement factor.

I do not know that much about Vitamin D. I will have to check into that.

I know my dad has to take vitamin D supplements because of the medicine he takes...hard to say if he has more energy because MS has taken a big toll on him.

A lot of people in the Pacific Northwest take supplements...no sun.

jennbunny, look for Ester-C next time, it's formulated to absorb much more readily. And (this will be a recurring theme) disregard the recommended daily intake, especially if you're not a perfectly healthy individual (which is nearly impossible on this planet) as it's a relatively safe vitamin. Obviously do your own research, especially as it relates to your body (I find that a symptom-based approach is the best way to figure out what supplements one needs) but I take 4g/day.

I also take D, and many many (many) others, as I've found substantial relief from mood problems and chronic pain through supplementation. Still working on the brain function...

Thanks for all of the info....after watching that show, I know we under estimate how much vitamins we really need.

Speaking of mood problems, there was a small segment about niacin. It apparently can help with depression.

Yes, especially since the nutrients aren't really in the food anymore.

I take another form of B3, niacinamide... similar functions, gentler on the liver.

FYI, aside from live people, I get much of my supplement guidance from
Prescription for Nutritional Healing and Amalgam Illness, Diagnosis and Treatment : What You Can Do to Get Better, How Your Doctor Can Help.

Thanks for the recommendations Lindsay!

I think in the documentary, the woman with severe depression was given some really really high amount of niacin....I want to say like 11,000 mg???? BUT I am not sure.

I used to be very anti-supplements. but Lindsay, you make a good point about modern food. i try to steer clear of processed foods, but it's hard. and sometimes we each need some specific things.

jennbunny--i apologize i haven't gotten those raw cookbook recs for you yet, but i will before the weekend.

Oh no worries....I am way to busy at work during the week to even think about anything. I need like 3 of me just to catch up!

I am going to start reading more on supplements and hopefully gain a better understanding about what our bodies really need. The govt only gives low dose suggestions.

On Food and Cooking: The Science and Lore of the Kitchen is really excellent. i have only read parts of it, though. my dad gave it to me when i was in college and i had discovered that the source of most of my distress was dairy and i had decided to become vegan. i remember his discussions of vitamins and minerals and how they help and hinder one another and how our body absorbs or doesn't absorb them were fascinating.

I love all these suggestions! I was hoping to even plant some of my own stuff this summer, but the injury slowed me down :(

The lack of nutrients is not only from our increased consumption of processed foods, but from unsustainable agricultural practices like monocultures, N-P-K (nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium only) fertilizer... So, even eating whole foods, if it's not in the soil, it won't be in the plant.

As for the niacin, vitamin megadose doesn't work with everything, your body can only absorb so much of most things at a time. With some things it can be extremely dangerous, with others, just a waste of money. I don't know about the take-up of niacin specifically, or danger beyond liver stress, but I know it's not generally on the top of the list as far as supplements with antidepressive effects go. (Though, again, depends on the body)