Between the Wars discussion

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I see that Rebecca West was her pen name and she was born Cicely Isabel Fairfield. It states in one of the web articles that she used the name to protect her family from her radical writings and feminist style. Also that she was interested in acting on stage and did so for a while. Were some of Sybil's (Sunflower's) feelings and experiences her own in regard to acting, do you think?

I was wondering why she chose those careers for her characters, rather than the more literary world in which she dwelt. Interesting to see how they translate in the story. H.G. Wells as politician? I have to find out more about his personality. Sure don't like what I've seen so far, if she's writing from experience! But I can see Lord Beaverbrook in Pitt, because I have researched him.

I really enjoy West's vivid imagery, even if it is a bit long-winded at times. But it paints the picture and makes you feel as if you're there.

I found this intriguing: as a mistress herself she must be speaking from experience. Odd that she says that sex isn't all it's cracked up to be. "It was no use pretending it [sex] was such a marvellous thing, because it wasn't, at least not for women."

Sunflower makes interesting comments about sex in several places in the story. And she seems at the same time controlled by men but yet seeing them as boyish -- and even sex as something to sort of administer to them as if they are ill children. One of her comments was almost like that. So in way, she is seeming to come from a motherly standpoint. That may have just been what struck me, and you may not get the same thing, Gabr. I also want to read back over what I read last night first, but I want to comment on what I seem to be "reading" about women in general.

In a way, long-winded, yes, but West's writing style has really captured me. Even with some of my top-list favorite authors I am not always following every word, but with her I am. Very talented woman. Some beautiful little emotion-filled passages and even single sentences that just keep on giving way after you've read them.

Yes, imaginative sentences like "He sat curiously in his chair, his broad shoulders jutting forward, as a lion would sit if he were made to eat at table."

West didn't do much to disguise Max Aitken - Lord Beaverbrook - as Francis Pitt, except to make him Australian instead of Canadian. The physical description of him is true to what I've read about him - short, but exuding power; ugly, with a large shaggy head and wide mouth. One admirer described him as "a strange attractive gnome with an odour of genius about him." Interesting, too, that she alludes to his shady dealings in California, because Aitken left Canada with that reputation.

These were powerful types of men she lives life with. And even though fictional, the atmosphere seems realistic. Men fascinated by power and politics, but still with all these flaws at home.

As for Sunflower herself, she is interesting. Essington met Sunflower when she was an 18-year-old actress. Imagine our view of that today in general. She had spent some good youthful years with him. She has been the brunt of his bad behavior -- I am finding him pretty much without redeeming qualities.

All the same, she does not seem to completely have given over to him. They do have that complicated, emotional connection that many people have in bad relationships, but (and I am nearing the end of the book) she does seem to have maintained and nurtured a lot of reason about herself personally. This may be a debatable point, but, for one example, she truly looks at her acting as a job, not an identity. She admits, without grief, that she has not been particularly good at acting, but that it has made a difference in her life to have a career.(The novel was written in the 1920's --pretty good thinking to me.) In so many ways, she is a rational woman, above and not fooled by so much of this stuff. She is not really fooled by these men either. She chooses how much she will accept, but realizes she is accepting things -- she is not living in a dream world.

She has fantasies of being with Pitt, but she is not living a fantasy about life in general, I think. And that comes as interesting to me as she lives in this wealthy, decorative, clever, savvy society. Another friend and I tend to talk about why, in today's society, we seem to encounter many people in pretty ordinary places in life who belief themselves to be so much more important than everybody else. We talk about it often as the "Me" syndrome. Often these people seem simply delusional to me. And they are difficult to have relationships with because it is almost impossible to help them keep believing in their elevated thoughts of themselves. I think Sunflower seems entirely unlike that. Am I giving her too much credit?

I just found this image on a cover of a book about him.

http://umanitoba.ca/cm/vol8/no1/beave...

Actually, much like I imagined him from the Pitt description!

Gabrielle, have you come to the part of the book about Pitt's house? That really establishes an image. A little later, the background of the house is told too, so it makes more sense. And odd setting for an unusual man though, still. Do you think Beaverbrook had a sister living with him like Etta?

SarahC wrote: "These were powerful types of men she lives life with. And even though fictional, the atmosphere seems realistic. Men fascinated by power and politics, but still with all these flaws at home.

As ..."

I'm only halfway through, Sarah, but I do agree with you. Despite Sunflower's negativity about herself - always calling herself stupid - she seems quite savvy about life and people, especially these powerful men. Her lack of self-confidence probably stems from her working class upbringing and being a woman of an era that is only just beginning to grant them more freedom and power.

I found it interesting as well that Sunflower is a celebrity, and that she hates this. For someone who is touted as being one of the most beautiful women in the world, she is very self-effacing and down-to-earth.

SarahC wrote: "I just found this image on a cover of a book about him.

http://umanitoba.ca/cm/vol8/no1/beave...

Actually, much like I imagined him from the Pitt description!

Gabrielle, have you come to..."

Thanks for that link, Sarah, as there seems to be a documentary about him which I will definitely have to see!

Yes, I have read the description of the house. Beaverbrook had a country estate, Cherkely Court, which many people then described as ugly, although I don't see it that way. Have a look - http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/surrey/hi...

Beaverbrook was one of 9 children of a clergyman, but I don't believe he ever had a sister living with him. He was married before moving to Britain from Canada to a woman whom he described as having "a livelier interest in me than I had in her." She was apparently beautiful high-spirited, and intelligent - and taller than he. When she died of a brain tumour in 1927, he was in Biarritz with his current mistress and only made it back in time to be at her bedside. Yet when she was gone, he was devastated, and confessed, "I loved her so much, but she was too good for me."

Gabriele wrote: "SarahC wrote: "These were powerful types of men she lives life with. And even though fictional, the atmosphere seems realistic. Men fascinated by power and politics, but still with all these flaws..."

Yes, I think that she calls herself "stupid" not even really knowing what that means. Not that she is illiterate or anything, but I think that Essington has probably chided her with this term from her young age of 18 onward, so it is just the standard label she accepts from him -- while all the time she knows she has much more intelligence that he will admit. What a sad man. Very possessive of her and using terms for women such as "decorative." I would hope even in the early century most men would have been able to manage a better understanding of women than that!

Wells was still of the generation that expected women to be decorative and not think too much or - God forbid! - have careers and compete with men. Interesting, then, that he had affairs with feminists like West and birth-control activist Margaret Sanger.

Very good point -- so is Essington a compilation of other men West knew? Or did she try to say that men went on thinking the accepted thing in society that women's roles were very limited, but all the while seeking a woman of more intellectual substance?

Or, as I like to believe, when it comes to history -- would men in private have actually thought much higher of women? Many men, living in the day-to-day with their beloved woman, would know they weren't the inferior being. It just wasn't the accepted custom for a man to admit that out loud. Which brings me back to Essington -- he must represent the worst of men to me!:)

I detest Essington! He's manipulative, condescending, patronizing, arrogant, and yet Sunflower concentrates on his strengths and vulnerabilities. He doesn't deserve her loyalty and affection. Was H.G. Wells really like that? Or, as you point out, Sarah, is he a compilation of men that West knew? Since Pitt is so very much like Beaverbrook, I wonder.

So I finally finished the book and have posted my review. I did enjoy it, and was fascinated by West's relationship with these powerful men - H.G. Wells and Lord Beaverbrook. She is a most engaging writer who illuminated intriguing aspects of her era. We may now be frustrated by Sunflower's self-deprecating attitude, but have to remember the society and era in which she lived. Successful feminists like West were often shunned by men who felt threatened by them.

Much as I would have liked to eavesdrop on West's ultimate relationship with Beaverbrook, I don't feel this unfinished novel suffers from that. It leaves us wondering. Of course, history gives us the answers.

Gabriele, I will read your review. I just like that the novel brings up the question of possibly West's inner thoughts of womanhood apart from her strong feminist views. There were so many personal thoughts that seemed apart from feminist writing. Like how much she enjoyed her home and the beauty she had created there. And her relationship with her servants. Do you remember the scene when they found the hedgehog in the garden? That was all very domestic. But at the same time, she, with her own career, had created this beautiful home.

This was a unique novel and hard to describe -- although experts on West may not be as surprised by it as me. And of course you know more of the backstory of the men in the story. She leaves an interesting portrait of them too, as represented by her fictional characters. Essington was a cruel man though and really never seemed to know how to respect her..

I agree, Sarah. Sunflower was much more domesticated than expected, and seemed to want to be looked after and in some ways dominated by men, while at the same time relishing her independence. Possibly a dichotomy that West also felt to some extent. I don't know enough about her. But in that era, it would have been difficult for a woman to have it all - marriage, family, successful career - which West tried to do. In the Afterward it states, "Men admired and desired her, but did not want to spend their lives with someone who had star quality and who gave her own destiny the same significance as her husband's."

Apparently West had decided that she couldn't publish the book for years because Beaverbrook would have recognized himself and would "wreak some awful vengeance on me." I would have thought that H.G. Wells would have been more outraged at his portrayal.

By the way, I bought that video about Beaverbrook that you pointed out to me, Sarah, and which was most interesting! West merited only a small mention, since she didn't have a successful affair with him. One of his longest affairs lasted 20 years, I think.

I finished this last night (sorry I wasn't able to read along with you, Gabriele and Sarah). I haven't read very much by West, but I found this very interesting. As you both noted, this is a very intimate look at the situation of women in that time. I was struck by how many times Sunflower refers to herself as "stupid," which is clearly what Essington had conditioned her to think. I thought her budding relationship with Pitt was fascinating. I was very taken by the poetic quality of West's prose. I am definitely going to be reading more of her work, and I'd like to find a good biography as well.

I agree, Christina, and I, too, intend to read more of her work. I have read The Return of the Soldier, which was interesting - one of those books that stays with you in many ways.