Dead End Follies discussion

That's a title that polarizes the debate right there. Since I posted about buying it, I got people saying they hated it and people saying they loved it. What do you liked/or hated about the Hunger Games? And remember, be careful with the spoilers because I haven't read it yet.

It's very specifically written for girls.

In a boys-are-evil-and-stupid way?

No, in a Why do all the boys want me? I just don't understand... way

Oh, then I will have some fun reading it and picking it apart...and Jennifer Lawrence would be a terrific cast for that.

I don't know, I think Hunger Games is very much NOT written specifically for girls. As Mooderino suggests there is some romance in there, but the "romance" is often more a matter of political manuevering than actual romance - it's not until late in the series that we see a suggestion of love without politics. How do you back up this idea that HG is written for girls, more specifically than "Mooderino | 3 comments No, in a Why do all the boys want me? I just don't understand... way"?

I don't think it's written for girls, either. It is, however, YA, and written for young hooligans, hence the simplistic approach to oblivious love that yes, is tiring, but is something that young teenagers might find less obvious and less tedious than we do reading this series as old and wise people. The romance bit is, like Ellen said, mostly about political maneuvering, and only a little about cluelessness. The story-line relies very little on that aspect.

All right, completely opposed opinion mean one thing. I`ll have to figure it out for myself!!!

The book, and the series, are full of romance novel tropes, some obvious, some disguised (like the one mentioned above by Ellen). It's hard to talk about them until Ben has read the book as there would be spoilers, but look forward to discussing it once he's had a chance to make up his own mind.

Get on with it Ben, it's only a little book.

Josie has taken it hostage right now. After six pages she told me: "It's really good", which is very unlike her. By page forty, she told me three time. There's something to it, I'm sure.

I think that any mention of a romantic story line in YA automatically gets classified as a "girl" book. Also since the main character is a girl. But looking at John Green's books, for example, with male narrators but filled with love plots, those many times still get categorized as "boy" books. Also why do "girl" books or books with strong female characters automatically get classified as less??

Sorry, I didn't mean to get all feminist ranty, but the implication, Mooderino, was that because it's about a girl or has a romance sub-plot, it's somehow not as good. I don't think that's true or fair. Harry Potter wouldn't be categorized that way, and there's teenage love all over that series, in a really angsty kind of way in parts.

I didn't interpret Moody's comment like that. I was it as a "target audience" type of comment. I mean, you can't please everybody with your writing. Unless you're Francis Scott Fitzgerald.

I agree that it was a target audience comment, but it was also an implication about girls and romance. If you look at the initial comment: "It's very specifically written for girls" and the last comment: "The book, and the series, are full of romance novel tropes" its about romance being something only girls will like. That's 1) not true, and 2) not fair.

It's not true but girls are the target audience for romance. Go to a romantic comedy and count the heads in the audience. It's just not something guys are into. Maybe Moody is guilty of saying it a little cavalierly, but I don't think he's fundamentally wrong in what he's saying. Just not nuanced enough

I dunno, I think lots of guys are actually into romance but are cultured not to be. I, myself, a "girl," don't much get romance, it's just not my thing, which was much to the chagrin of some of the guys I dated that fancied themselves romantic. Romantic comedies are marketed to women, who are cultured to like romance, and men are not supposed to like such things, and have been tricked into believing that a movie focusing on women and the lives they lead is automatically less interesting than a movie about men and the lives they lead. The movie industry is also ridiculous in believing that a movie with women as main characters must automatically revolve around romance or family. Just because pop culture tells us to be a certain way doesn't mean we have to listen.

Romance has about as much plot space in the Hunger Games as it does in Harry Potter. Harry Potter, however, successfully caught the interest of both boys and girls, men and women. The Hunger Games have not had the same success, I'd wager, because the main character is a girl, automatically rendering the books "girly" and leading people to conclude that they are "very specifically written for girls."

And there's my rant for the day.

i think we can agree that hollywood is full of idiots who try to manipulate people any way they can.

My point was that it was HG is aimed at girls. That's not necessarily good or bad. The defensive posture taken by some of you here is understandable but not really necessary. Anyone who wants to can visit my blog (http://moodywriting.blogspot.com)and see my analysis of HG and a bunch of other books in various genres including romance (The Notebook). I don't care who a book is aimed at I break things down in terms of story.

The reason men react poorly to most romance type fiction (books or films) is this:

A woman tells a man she loves him, they have sex, the man is satisfied she loves him.

A man tell a woman he loves her, they have sex, she worries if he really meant it, if he used her...

That difference is a key component of romance novels and of HG. We (blokes) don't need to dwell (and by dwell I mean wallow) on the question of is it really love or is it a lie to get something.

Romance as attraction between two people is universal. Romance as wish fulfillment fantasy as seen in most romance novels is not.

I assume you still haven't read it, Ben. Give the other half a nudge why don't you?

i'd also like to point out that while my initial post ("it's very specifically written for girls") could be read as curt and dismissive, the actual reason I wrote it like that is in response to the last line of Ben's original post (message 1).

I'm about 130 pages into it. Not bad at all, so far. Collins is a little too formal for my taste, but you know. Strong female archetype, a few ideas on entertainment. It could be worse. She deliberately slows the pace for romance, which can be annoying, but I like the tone she keeps around Katniss.