Sci-fi and Heroic Fantasy discussion

Which fantasy novel do you think has the most interesting or original magic system?

The Lord of the Rings because it isn't sorcerers magic. It comes from The Valar.

I like the Sword of Truth series. The magic there can be added or subtracted. Anything is possible as long as you can be creative.

I like The Lost Gate because your magic only becomes strong when you go through a gate.

Wheel of Time is mine. The power all comes from the source which is divided up into two halves. Male and Female called saidar and saidin. These powers allow for control of elemental properties. Plus other powers come from the Dark Lord of the story and in the dreamworld.

Mine is the secrets of immortal, because you can have a bit of power from a god and live powerful enogh to destory a whole area.

I really like the magic system, or perhaps it's maybe the way it is used by the author, in Lawrence Watt-Evans Ethshar Series. Check out The Misenchanted Sword and With A Single Spell.

You all might find this article interesting...i did.

http://io9.com/5866306/the-rules-of-m...

Actually must add Mistborn now on top of that...

I find WIZARD OF EARTHSEA's system just perfect. It's writeris -- writers are obsessed with names. It's folkloric -- the whole Native American thing about finding your true name. And LeGuin develops it perfectly.

The Black Company, because the how didn't matter. It was all about how the sorcery affected the grunts on the ground, and their feelings of helplessness against it.

Wow! I still haven't even read Wizard of Earthsea!

SORCERER'S SON, by Phyllis Eisenstein. Three or four different magic systems, including one revolving around weaving.

I like it in lotr cuz tis practically non existant... :P

Jonathan wrote: "Wheel of Time is mine. The power all comes from the source which is divided up into two halves. Male and Female called saidar and saidin. These powers allow for control of elemental properties. Plu..."

Yep, definitely WOT for me. And let's face it, who hasn't dreamed of being Aes Sedai?

Well I'd rather be part of the Black Tower myself - going crazy and breaking the world sounds like a decent side effect of gaining power.

I agree that the magic in A Wizard of Earthsea is wonderful. LeGuin takes a single idea (the power in knowing something by its true name) and develops it. I think this approach is much more intuitive than inventing a "magic system." For the same reason, I love the magic in McKillip's Riddlemaster trilogy, which is based on kinship with the land -- a simple idea on the surface, but one that gains depth and complexity as the story goes on.

Tyrone wrote: "I really like the magic system, or perhaps it's maybe the way it is used by the author, in Lawrence Watt-Evans Ethshar Series. Check out The Misenchanted Sword and With A Single Spell."


Totally agree. Lawrence Watt-Evans' use of magic is a blast!

Oh, and I forgot to add Brandon Sanderson has a pretty cool magic system in Elantris.

I haven't read Elantris. Is the magic system anything like his Mistborn series? That had a very logical system. Brandon Sanderson must have a talent for thinking things through don't you think?

I'm sorry to say that I haven't yet read Mistborn, but hope to start on it soon, so I have no basis for comparison. In Elantris, the magic was once controlled by the drawing of symbols, but when drawn now, they hover for a moment in the air, fizzle and die. So a big theme in the novel is figuring out why magic doesn't work as it once did and how to get it working again.

I'd also recommend a Trilogy by Lyndon Hardy where the whole series is focused on the magic system of a world, specifically its 5 recognised branches branches of magic.
The story revolves around an apprentice magic user's quest for respect and recognition so he can win the had of a queen. A quest which take him through all 5 branches of magic always succeeding but always the rewards and recognition going to others forcing him onto the next branch of magic.

The books are;

and

Fayley wrote: "I haven't read Elantris. Is the magic system anything like his Mistborn series? That had a very logical system. Brandon Sanderson must have a talent for thinking things through don't you think?"

He has an incredible work ethic. He seems to plan everything thoroughly before he writes.

Elantris has a great magic system I agree that ties into the plot nicely. Drawing runes in the air. It's a lot like the system in Sabriel by Garth Nix.

Sanderson's Warbreaker has another interesting system. Magic based on gathering breath from other people...

I love the idea that magic is just science we don't understand yet (like mobile phones would appear to people say 300 years ago), so if the magic is constrained by universal laws then it feels real to me

Jaq wrote: "I wonder if that's always a good thing? I read a book recently that struck me as having an extremely well planned out magic system, but it felt constrained. I tend to enjoy more naturally occurring..."

I guess it is human nature to want to harness and use any force. The parallel is technology as Fayley said. Technology is our way of harnessing the elemental forces of nature for whatever purpose. We use those forces to provide, wealth, power and even occasionally for the overall good of mankind.

A magic system is the same. It is a way of harnessing the power and providing consistant and predictable results. Our way of imposing order on chaos.

Whether this is a god or a bad thing for a novel is something we can certainly debate but you can't argue that any author who imposes a magic system in their world is simply reflecting what any human society would desire with any source of power.

Personally speaking while i recognise that developing free chaotic unconstrained magic might offer new story possibilites i like the societies in my fantasy to offer some reflection of how human societies are in reality. I've also found both in literature but also in films an element of constraint often adds something rather than detracts from the final result.

For example it is the constraints imposed by Lawrence Watt-Evans (i heartily recommend The Misenchanted Sword and With A Single Spell) that provides not only the main focus of the narritave but also the drama and comedy which make them such a good read.

In films it is often those directors who are constrained by either budget or self imposed rules (for example Dogma) which turn out the most interesting and engaging films concentrating on storytelling and characterisation, something which Hollywood has forgotten with their several hundred million pound blockbusters and PR onslaught.

Jaq wrote: "I wonder if that's always a good thing? I read a book recently that struck me as having an extremely well planned out magic system, but it felt constrained. I tend to enjoy more naturally occurring..."

Not always but if you have someone who is still a natural storyteller then that is a brilliant combination of planning and storytelling to have.

If you think about it, a rationally-organized magic system is no more a guarantee of a good book than a great fashion look or a superbly set-up political system. A notably crappy one can spoil a good book, but a great one is not going to save a book that is idiotically plotted or badly written.
Given this, there are definitely authors who specialize in less-organized magic. The queen of these may be Diana Wynn Jones, who I sense just wrote novels down in one mad rush, without putting a lot of agony into how the magic works. You never notice, the books are so fun.

I'm a big fan of the magic system in Christopher Stasheff's "Warlock" series - where the magic is simply endemic to the world and actually pools into organic matter that can be 'formed' by anyone with natural magical talent.

And, of course, Discworld magic. As per Wikipedia: 'The force called "magic" is really just a function of the relative absence of reality in the local area, much in the same way that the absence of heat is described as "coldness."' Magic as particle physics? Yes, please!

I kind of liked Melanie Rawn's "Sun Runner" magic from her Dragon Prince series and different but also fun, Rawn's "Exiles" trilogy.