Anglicans discussion

My husband just got this from Amazon, and when he is done, I'm going to read this.

I am definitely not a Calvinist. Free will seems so prevalent throughout the Bible. I'd love to hear some thoughts from people whether they are for predestination or not. I'd especially love to hear thoughts from some of the Pastors/ Anglican clergy in the group.

I am laity, but I read a snippet from a pastor friend I know well and respect who reflected that most Calvinist are more Calvinist than Calvin was.
Or, as Dr. Dennis Kinlaw said in his lectures on the Old Testament, both the Lutherans and the Calvinists read what Luther's and Calvins take on the scriptures were rather than experiencing themselves. His theory was that for both men the Word "exploded" within them (and Kinlaw is not a Calvinist, btw).

Hi Charity! I've heard the same thing. Often people who follow someone's idea, take it too far. The Methodist followers of the Wesley Brothers did that. Otherwise we would have more Anglicans and no Methodists :) The brothers were faithful Anglicans.

These are the classic verses used for arguing predestination:

Rom 8:21-30 " For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified."

Rom 9:15-16 " For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.”[a] 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy."

Rom 9:21 "Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?"

Rom 9:11-13 "(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her,“The older shall serve the younger.”[a] 13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”

Here are some of the verses for Free Will:

Ephesians 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved.

John 12:46 "I have come [as] a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness.

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened [his] mouth and said: "In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. 35 "But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.

Acts 10:43 "To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins."

Romans 10:11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

1 Timothy 2:3 For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

I am still new to learning about church history and how these differing ideas came about. I can't wait to see if others who have studied more church history or attended seminary have any insights.

Ah yes... My husband reads lots of church history books, mostly bios. Explains why you will find ancestors who belonged in for a certain period to the Methodist Episcopal Church!

Ouch...I'm a Calvinist. I always feel this is a touchy subject since many people have been burned by some of my Calvinist brothers and sisters (we have a sad history of being pushy, haughty and disdainful toward those who do not share our soteriological beliefs) and since I'm actually not an Anglican, (I'm Presbyterian, PCA) I feel out of place talking about why I'm a Calvinist or why it's so great.

BUT I can always point to the fact that there were (and are) many Anglican priests in the Reformed Tradition. J.C. Ryle, John Stott,and J.I. Packer to name a few off the top of my head. I believe N.T. Wright also, for the most part, is Reformed in his understanding of Free-will, but a recent book of his caused a slight brouhaha amongst the elect (heehee) and they did not know what to do with it.

I've always felt that Anglicanism was a wonderful "Big Tent" home for the different traditions of the Christian faith. To me, an outsider, it looks like Anglicans were able to incorporate these traditions and yet still keep their own identity. One could be an Arminian, a Calvinist, or a Tractarian, and still call themselves an Anglican. That's special I think.

With my Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and non-Reformed brothers I am usually quick to point out, in the spirit of peacemaking, that we can all agree on the idea that God is the one who makes the first move toward us, even before we could ever think about making a move toward Him (1 John 4:10 and Romans 5:8). That is grace. That makes us Christians.

James, I am glad you shared your side :) You are such a decent young man. I respect what you say. Your character shows kindness always. So true, there are many Anglicans that are Calvinist. Even in my very traditional little church we have some differing views. I love what you share at the end of your post, of God being the one who makes the first move towards us.

Amen to unity. Never should things like this divide us. Still, it is good to discuss and wrestle with theology questions.

Good to hear from you! Non Anglicans are ALWAYS welcome here and Christ is our focus. Hopefully we can all say that we are Christians first before any denominational classification.

Blessings,
Karen