Science Fiction Aficionados discussion

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IMHO, his greatest work is "Stranger in a Strange Land". Utterly timeless.

No argument there.

Tunnel In the Sky is good too.

Pia, you might also try

Heinlein has some good ones like Stranger in a Strange Land, but there is some really wretched stuff out there like Number of the Beast to avoid.

Pia wrote: "Oh--I've actually read that one, Pax. But thanks for the suggestion :). I think I'll just move ST to the top of my reading list when I'm through with what I'm currently reading."

No worries, I agree Heinlein could get out there and sometimes it hit and sometimes it was in the dirt. God I love the ones he hit out of the park though.

as far as Starship Troopers goes, i'm one of those people who actually prefers the film to the book. a rare and probably perplexing breed, i know. but the book was just too jingoistic for me.

fun and totally useless fact: i wrote the insurance policy for Starship Troopers (the film). back in the day, many years past, that i actually wrote entertainment insurance policies. most scripts are about a page per minute of screen time, so between 90 and 120 pages. the Starship Troopers screenplay was under 70 pages!

Even thought I have not read any, his future history series with Lazarus Long to me maybe his best books, but not really will known to the masses.

Number of the Beast was pretty bad before the messy and bizarre ending.

i couldn't even get past the first third of Number of the Beast

procrastin8or wrote: "Number of the Beast was pretty bad before the messy and bizarre ending."


Yeah, I didn't really like the book, and the ending seemed like he went on a freak acid trip and decided to write a memorial to every character he ever made up.

Kate wrote: "I recently saw the movie version of Heinlein's The Puppet Masters and it was somewhat good. Not sure that I'd read it after seeing that movie, but Donald Sutherland being in it made it..."

I remember really enjoying the book Puppet Masters a lot. I have not read Moon is Harsh Mistress yet. Someday...

Pia wrote: "Oh--I've actually read that one, Pax. But thanks for the suggestion :). I think I'll just move ST to the top of my reading list when I'm through with what I'm currently reading."

I would have to disagree with your decision Pia. I enjoy trying to work out the many references to other science-fiction books, some are obvious, others much less so. Also this book is an attempt to tie together all of his other works into one consistent multiverse. I like Number on so many levels, Still horses for courses as they say.

I`m sorry Pia I thought we were chatting about "Number of the Beast" which I abbreviated to `Number` Obviously I misunderstood what was being said, mea culpa.

"Universe" is my favorite of his.

Ive read a few books by him and I have yet to be dissapointed.

I'm different from the "run of the mill" Heinlein reader I suppose as I detest Stranger in a Strange Land, positively hated it. My favorite work by him I suppose is Glory Road. I also like many of the books that are considered his Youth (or at the time they were written "Teen") reads. I like Starship Troopers(and find the movie an abomination). I like many others of his work, but don't care for others. I think near the end his work suffered a bit also and don't care for a lot of those books. I find his work a mixed bag. I really like some and dislike others.

I read Number of the Beast mulitple times. I really loved it at the time.

One of my favorites was Methusala's Children. I really liked Lazerous Long.

I also read most of his juvenilles. Recently re-read Starship Troopers. The movie really doesn't bear any resemblance to the book, IMHO.

I've read every Heinlein except for Friday and J.O.B. I am saving them up. For what, I dunno.

Bo wrote: "Ive read a few books by him and I have yet to be dissapointed."

If you thought the film was bad - wait until you see the dog`s mess that is Starship Troopers 2, Heinlein must be spinning in his grave at what they have done with his work, LOL.

Thomas wrote: "Bo wrote: "Ive read a few books by him and I have yet to be dissapointed."

If you thought the film was bad - wait until you see the dog`s mess that is Starship Troopers 2, Heinlein must be spinnin..."

Thanks but no, hehe.

Thomas, did you read my review of Starship Troopers? I reamed the movie a bit and mentioned that the whirring noise on the sound track was RH spinning in his grave at high speed. LOL

Susinok wrote: "Thomas wrote: "Bo wrote: "Ive read a few books by him and I have yet to be dissapointed."

If you thought the film was bad - wait until you see the dog`s mess that is Starship Troopers 2, Heinlei..."

No Mike I didn`t read your review, just thinking about the pile of donkey dung that`s Starship Troopers, the movie makes me so angry that a good story should be so badly treated. Come the revolution, everyone involved in it will be put against the wall, no wait why waste bullets, bury `em alive!!! LOL

My pennyworth:
First came across Heinlein as a youngster (in the 50s) with Starman Jones. I still remember much of it, including the first explanation I'd read of warp space. It made such an impression that I've now bought it (still to be re-read).

Other greats have already been mentioned: Stranger in a Strange Land, Glory Road, Farnham's Freehold.

I really liked Starship Troopers, so of course I hated the film, which took the title, but missed the point.

But Number of the Beast was an awful disappointment. It always seemed to me that he started one book, got bored and finished writing a different one. Without tying up the plot threads.

Yet two years later he published Friday which I really enjoyed. It's not a "Great Book", but the story-telling is superb - it just carries you away (well it did me anyway). A superb page-turner.

the battle situation involving the fort on the bug world in the movie "starship troopers" was taken directly from the book "Armor" by John Steakley.
I had read both books at the time the movie came out so I recognized it for what it was -- two books combined into one movie [cow]flop.
The armor in the movie was pathetic and useless compared to the really cool, feature-filled armor in the book.

Oh but I love the Starship Troopers movies- in a purely Mystery Science Theater 3k sort of way, where I drunkenly watch them with my husband and we loudly mock them. They're really excellent for that.

I'm actually just starting to get into Heinlein's books, I'm very much looking forward to it. I was planning on starting with Starship Troopers, ( I like space marine scifi), unless someone suggests I start with anothe.

I read all of this juvenilles and earlier works in junior high in the 70s. My library had them. From then on I read his books as they came out.

It was so long ago that I have mostly forgotten the plots of them, and I need to do a total re-read so that I can see them with adult eyes.

I bet a re-reading of Number of the Beast now will not go as well as the first several reads. I know I liked the first half of the book much better than the second half.

I re-read Starship Troopers about 5 years ago and it reminded me of some popular modern military SF and I can see where that genre got it's big boost in Heinlein.

I did love Stranger in a Strange Land and really need to re-read it.

It is a shame MST3k is gone. They could really have done a good job on the Starship Troopers movie.

Stranger in a Strange Land is certainly a sci-fi classic, and marks a transition in Heinlein's writing.
The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is a terrific exploration of the idea of a sentient computer, as well as a good handbook on revolutionary tactics.
I'm not sure if Citizen of the Galaxy is classified as one of his juveniles, but whether or no, I thoroughly enjoyed it (as an adult).

Becky wrote: "Oh but I love the Starship Troopers movies- in a purely Mystery Science Theater 3k sort of way, where I drunkenly watch them with my husband and we loudly mock them. They're really excellent for th..."

Stranger in a Strange Land, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, and the collection of his short stories "The Past through Tomorrow" - all classics. The rest of his stuff..... eh, not so much.

Mike (the Paladin) wrote: "It is a shame MST3k is gone. They could really have done a good job on the Starship Troopers movie."


They're not completely gone. Now they run this site http://www.rifftrax.com/

Basically they just do audio now and make it easy to sync up to your movie by every once in a while saying a line word for word, so you can tell if the timing is off. It's fantastic.

Anyway - the first Heinlein I read was The Moon is a Harsh Mistress. It's still one of my absolute favorites. Especially as someone who likes the idea of alternative lifestyles. I thought the idea of a line marriage was fascinating.

I love early Heinlein. Starship Troopers, the Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Have Spacesuit, Will Travel. He lost me with the Lazarus Long books, however. They just did nothing for me at all.

I've just read an old short-story of his that's just amazing.

It's a time-travel paradox tale called "By His Bootstraps". It was a really fun and thought-provoking read although you could see the twists coming and the protagonist was really morally dislikable.

Sérgio wrote: "I've just read an old short-story of his that's just amazing.

It's a time-travel paradox tale called "By His Bootstraps". It was a really fun and thought-provoking read although you could see the ..."

That is a good one, I remember reading it as a teenager and liking it a lot. I'd like to find it again.

Having only read two of his stories (Stranger in a Strange Land and The Moon is a Harsh Mistress) I feel as if I'm passing hasty judgement. I found Heinlein's stories to be excellent vehicles for conveying his ideas, but his characters unrelatable and, after one story, predictable. Theres's the old but spry mastermind (Jubal, the Professor) pointing out problems, the demigod (Mike and Mike) solving them like magic, the competent Everyman (Mannie and Ben) with the well endowed women sidekick/love interests, all doin' their part to bring down the Man. It seems to me that much of the (deserved) criticism given to Ayn Rand's writing belongs also to Heinlein's.

All that being said, I would gladly take up another Heinlein story if I knew of one that broke the mold, so to speak.

Kurt wrote: "Sérgio wrote: "I've just read an old short-story of his that's just amazing.

It's a time-travel paradox tale called "By His Bootstraps". It was a really fun and thought-provoking read although y..."

Well, the anthology I've read it in is really old, but there must be easy-to-find short-stories collections of his around, probably...

'By his bootstraps' is in the collection "The menace from earth"

A couple of books don't seem to get much attention, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress (yes, I know, it's about to get all kinds of attention), and The Door Into Summer. I love both of these books for very different reasons. TMIAHM is wonderful for its use of dialect and TDIS is a great man vs. man story as well as a man meets "woman" story.

oh, and by the way, I have it from Library of America that they will be including Double Star in a Sci Fi anthology next Fall.

My favorite Heinlein books are Starship Troopers, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, and Job, in that order.

I suppose Stranger in a Strange Land is 4th.

BTW, I love the Troopers book and movie, each in their own way, despite the variations.

I LOVE SPACE OPERA!!! ...with that yelled :-) I really dislike almost every Heinlein book and the classic do androids dream of electric sheep by dick. Does this make me a bad sci-fi fan? I mean my top series are the Star Carrier series by Ian Douglas and the Troy series by John Ringo, and coming in 2nd place...Star Force series by Larson and Posleen war/legend of the aldenata also by John Ringo. If I wanted deep political undertones I'd read people's Facebook posts...lol anyone else feel like me or am I nuts?

Rob wrote: "I LOVE SPACE OPERA!!! ...with that yelled :-) I really dislike almost every Heinlein book and the classic do androids dream of electric sheep by dick. Does this make me a bad sci-fi fan? I mean my ..."

Yes, you are nuts :)
Not because you dislike Heinlein or Love Space Operas, just simply because you asked the question "am I nuts?" at the end of your post.

No, you are not a bad sci-fi fan.
Military based sci-fi are quite popular among many readers. Heinlein was a military officer, many of his books did have strong polical undertones, which I found very interesting. But for me, I liked he Heinlein because many of his books has an anarchist aspect to them, Like Stranger in a Strange Land.

Happily everyone is allowed to have their own taste....even if it is faulty.

:)

I have a lot of Heinlein books on my shelf. I believe I started with Stranger in a Strange Land, which I loved, and then read every book he wrote thereafter. I have not, however, re-read any, so it's been a good 25 years. I remember really liking them all, especially the books with Lazarus Long and time travel, such as The Past Through Tomorrow. Because I have such fond memories of the books, I'm not inclined to read them now! But, as I am now delving into classic Sci Fi books I have not read and finding them quite good, I may just pull one of those dusty Heinlein paperbacks off the shelf and see if the magic is still there.

Linda wrote: "I have a lot of Heinlein books on my shelf. I believe I started with Stranger in a Strange Land, which I loved, and then read every book he wrote thereafter. I have not, however, re-read any, so ..."

Have you read any of his pre-Stranger books?

I've always loved Heinlein. My first exposure was completely accidental. I picked up a copy of Stranger at Waldenbooks one day before getting underway for a Drug Patrol Ops cruise in the Gulf of Mexico aboard the USS Mississippi. I fell in love with Heinlein's style...Other favorites include The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, I Will Fear No Evil, and Starship Troopers

One that I have not seen mentioned in this thread is Orphans of the Sky. It's a post- "Stranger in a Strange Land" novel that is set entirely within the hull of a generational ship that forgot it was a generational ship...a sort of "Lord of the Flies" in space.

That looks like a neat, early Generation Ship story, a sub-genre of science fiction. I've enjoyed a few others.

1) Ben Bova's The Exiles Trilogy was the first I read, so I have a soft spot in my heart for it. The concepts of creating a ship to go between the stars, one that would take so long that subsequent generations would lose the original purpose, and evolve the mission into something else entirely, just blew my mind.

2) I consider John Varley's Gaea trilogy starting with Titan to be in this sub-genre, though some might argue that since the ship is not earth-created it's not. In any case, it's a wonderful read by that all too rare rare science fiction author who chooses quality in his writing over proliferation, something Heinlein would have benefitted from doing as well.

3) I also liked the way the Generation Ship sub-genre worked its way into the Star Trek episode "Space Seed", the storyline of which is perhaps more widely known by its sequel movie, The Wrath of Khan. Khan was of course on a generation ship.

I really must give this Heinlein novel a try. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. Does anyone know other good Generation Ship stories worthy of consideration along with Heinlein's? If, unlike me, you have read it, does Heinlein's version remain the best example for you?

While not truly a generational ship in the essence of the concept, Ben Bova's Saturn is an interesting read that is much like a generational ship. The book focuses on a ship of 10,000 "colonists" living in a complete biosphere who were going to take up residence in orbit of Saturn. Part scientific expedition, and part sociology experiment (unbeknownst to everyone but one social scientist aboard) the story takes the reader on a fun ride through the ideas of group dynamics.

Probably the most interesting idea for a generational ship that I've read is Ark. Baxter explores radicalized climate change and presents the solution of an Alcubieere warp drive as a way to carry humanity to the stars in an effort to leave a planet that is no longer friendly to human life. The catch to his iteration of the warp drive is that once you set a course, you cannot alter that course or stop; i.e. you're in it for the long haul-until you reach your destination. Although the Ark is traveling at superluminal speeds, it still takes years to get to where they're going, and it becomes a wild ride into some of the more disturbing aspects of the human condition.

Arthur C. Clarke's Rendezvous with Ramaseries is another fun read that falls into the generational ship line of thought, even though the ship was not created by us.

This sub-genre is wider than I realized. Here's a page (including your Rendezvous with Rama) listing a lot of Generation Ship novels and stories. Open the literature tab: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php...