Artipathy discussion

Kay, you asked what I was painting. I'm doing a series of cooking paintings. I've done one of potato and leek soup, one of Chili, and just finished one of a Clafoutis (French cherry flan). I'll get a picture up soon on my blog. Working with the seasons. Thinking now of something with apples or some other such fall food. Do you guys have a favorite fall recipe? I think I'll do what I said and set up a couple of still life's so I can alternate. Strange how I'm feeling now, a sense of loss now that I'm finished. And always that sense that I can do better. But that's what it's all about, letting the painting teach me how to paint, enjoying the process. I'll have to pick up my sketchbook and hash out a few ideas...

Odette, are you reading more about Pre-Raphaelites right now? I have to say, the book we last read on the Endicott group did rekindle my interest, especially in Burne-Jones.

Kay, do you have a favorite artist/period?

My problem, at the moment, is lack of obsession. I've had my ongoing portraits of pregnant ladies (photos), and would love to do some more serious work of my kids, but they resist so much, it's difficult.

If I could fixate on a good obsession, I might actually get more work (scratch that, I mean art)done.

Also, the transition to digital is problematic for me artistically.

I can't wait to see some of your cooking paintings... you're making me hungry. My fall foods are usually filled with pumpkin. Roasted seeds, pumpkin butters, bread, etc. But one things we do make every year is borscht. We make a HUGE batch and then freeze most of it for the winter. So I suppose it's more of a winter food, but fits in with fall preparation.

Favorite artists are always hard for me to pick out-- there are so many! I have a big interest in Joseph Cornell right now. I have a book of his diaries and letters that I'm looking forward to reading.

As for periods, I can usually give or take from all of them... I was very into art nouveau for a while (Mucha especially). Especially book illustrations by people like Beardsley. In fact, many of the people I love did a fair amount of book illustration too (Parrish, Wyeth)... suppose I really love a painting that tells a story.

Right now, I'm planning a few projects. One including the mythology of insects, but I need to find models for that. I'm excited about finding time for it soon.

Kay, thanks for the food ideas! I was thinking of borscht for a winter painting. I love the color of the beets in their juice. But the best is that you made me think of canning, which is definitely a fall activity! I have tons of mason jars filled with stuff that might be interesting, one of them being some applesauce I made years ago that I can't get open. I keep it because it was the last jar I made from my trees in France. Thought of the pumpkin thing, the seeds...still mulling over that one. I bought two kinds of pumpkin here, American and European, to contemplate. Liking the smaller European one so far.

I saw that you were into Cornell. I'll have to look more into his works. If you put up the book here, when you read it I'd love to hear your comments on his diaries.

Yes, I like Mucha too, and Beardsley is a genius. Love book illustration too. I'll try and think of some of my favorites, illustration and otherwise... The story is also for me very important and something I always carry in my own work. That's why I'm struggling now to figure out my next composition, but you tipped off some good ideas!

I love the mythology of insects idea! Do you have a natural history museum nearby? They might have some good samples. I tried keeping a few insects for painting but they got eaten by other insects! Now I think I still have a bee in a box somewhere... (I found it, I would never intentionally kill a bee.) Hmmm...I'll try and think where you could find some models...(in between my pumpkin meditation LOL).

Hmm, the insect mythology sounds really interesting. At one time I thought about doing a series of mixed media photographs with people as insects, I was particularly fascinated by artwork about dragonflies. I haven't fully realized what I want it to look like though, and would need to get out there and experiment. Maybe this group will get me thinking about it more.

The mythology idea sounds great to go with that as well. It seems so difficult to write about art, like one of my favorite quotes I should put up, I think it was Adrienne Belew
"talking about music is like whistling about chickens."

Though, with art, I do find a good discussion helpful. But only insofar as I can relate it to the pics.

Hi Kim - I haven't had much time to read anything non-work-related this month, but I have four books out from the library about the Pre-Raphaelite artists and another book about the poet Swinburne.
I've started re-reading Mortal Love slowly so I can savor the descriptions and atmosphere.

Kay, which insect mythology interests you - was it one from a particular tradition, or from any/all of them?
Have you ever read Elizabeth Hand's short story Cleopatra Brimstone? If you're interested in butterflies, you might enjoy it. (Side note: I just discovered that my favorite butterfly - the Menelaus Blue Morpho - is "high cannibalistic" when in the larval stage. Why are the most dramatically beautiful creatures in nature so often violent? Siamese fighting fish, the entire big cat family...)
Andrea, have you ever seen photos of Jean Paul Gaultier’s Cicada dresses?
http://www.trenddelacreme.com/search/...
(Sometimes I think there is an argument to be made for fashion as fine art. I wish people dressed like this in real life - it would be so much more fun to walk down the street.)

I'm also really interested in Joseph Cornell and would love to read a book by or about him.

I want to read Michael de Meng's book The Secret of Rusty Things and I really like Elizabeth McGrath's dark, gothic puppet colleges in Everything that Creeps. (If these are too close to craft art for this group, let me know. The line between crafts and fine art seems to be blurring a bit these days, but I'm probably not the best judge - I always believed children's book illustration could be regarded as fine art.)
I have an inexplicable love for Mark Ryden's paintings. I felt such a powerful sense of recognition the first time I saw them – it was like someone had painted imagery right out of my childhood subconscious, and what was disturbing in them became oddly comforting.

What do you all think about pop surrealism in general - too close to advertising art, or do you think it transcends that? Do you ever read/look at the magazine Juxtapoz?

Kim-- museums are a good idea... I live right outside Washington D.C. so have many museums to browse for insect models (I spend lots of time at the Smithsonian). I do need to find human models though. The mythology paintings will each feature a different woman and insect.

Andrea-- I really love dragonflies too. One of my paintings will feature them as well. Insects as people would be very interesting.

Odette-- I was thinking maybe a different tradition for each painting, but it depends on what information I find. I have a few things planned so far, but it's still new.

I need to look up Mark Ryden to refresh my memory, but I've seen The Secret of Rusty Things and thought it was beautiful. As for Juxtapoz, I used to subscribe to that magazine and enjoyed quite a lot of it. I stopped because it started to become overload (too much of the same style?), but I still pick it up once in a while when someone I like is featured.

Odette, just added Utopia Parkway. We'll do the Art&Fear, then whatever Kay suggests...do you want to do Cornell after that? Also, if one of those Pre-Raph books that you have is one you'd like to discuss, we can do that. I'd love to learn more than just the general knowledge I have of them. They have been my favs for a long time. Burne-Jones especially.

McGrath's work looks interesting, though I did find her watercolors not so. I guess I need to define the whole "fine art" thing more. Art in general is fine with me, but what I'm hoping to discuss here is a certain level of art...hmmm...that has a lot of thought put into it...and technique, but by know means do I want to be stuffy and say only painting is art...just want to stay away from that whole glorified pot holder stuff. I think you guys get the picture.

I like your twisted childhood subconscious. ;0) I'll have to pour over Ryden's work more.

I think I might go with Dear Theo for my pick, to be fair to everyone. The Cornell book is just under $30 (so a little expensive for those wanting to buy?), and I'm not sure how easy it is to find!

Limiting the types of art we discuss would make me feel a little uncertain. I love a lot of non-painting forms of art, of course. If by 'glorified pot holder' you mean something along the lines of dada then I'm not sure why it would be less worthy of discussion, but if you mean crafting or interior design, then I'm with ya... there are other groups focusing on that. But do let us know what you decide so we stay on topic. :)

Yeah, sorry, that was a bit drastic to put it that way...didn't mean stuff like dada at all...and I have tons of respect and interest in handcrafts...just noticed that there are some sites (and I'm on one!) where it is mostly about hobby art and that is not the direction I want to go in. Otherwise, all views of art are open here. I'm not an art snob, just the opposite. So, dada, surrealism, pop art, collage, etc. are welcome here. I knit, for instance, but I won't be discussing knitting books here. I'd like to keep that in another venue. Ceramics is a beautiful art form but I would not focus on making pots probably as that is more a handcraft, quilts are wonderful but some are art and some aren't. I wouldn't do a book on log cabin quilting for example. Is that clearer? Hope I didn't step on anybody's toes! Just trying to keep focused.

Much clearer, thank you! I wasn't thinking you were an art snob at all, just wanted to be sure I understood (I have a literal mind that causes me to miss a lot when reading things, so I tend to double-check often). Apologies if I sounded combative.

I have an equal respect for handcrafts and dabble a little... not too well, yet.

I don't know if you can watch videos, but this one on the subject of "What is art?" always makes me laugh: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDo_vs...

(Rolling on the floor, gripping her sides with uncontrollable laughter) YES! That says it all. Thanks for the yt link. ;0)

What do you all think about pop surrealism in general - too close to advertising art, or do you think it transcends that? Do you ever read/look at the magazine Juxtapoz? (Odette)

Hmmm...not advertising art, but closer to illustration, which I love too. It seems very design oriented. Looked at Juxtapos just since you mentioned it and it looks interesting...I'll have to take more time to see what it's really about.

Ha, Kay, I lived in DC for some time and still have an apartment there over by Waterside Mall (SW). Wish I spent more time at the museums than I did while I was there. We have many wonderful ones here though too. I'm going to try and see the Josef and Izaac Israels exhibit this week. I think you could find some great stuff to inspire your insect search in DC. Maybe the Children's Museum too? I'm very intrigued about your project!

Odette, I agree, it would be wonderful to see more people wearing "art". I have a friend in New York who does just that, creates many of his own "costumes". He's got the guts and the looks to carry it off too. Andrea often had some very interesting outfits in college, remember, Andrea? It's a shame people wait till Halloween to break out and be creative. Thanks for the fashion link. Now if only I can get some of these people to pose for me in those wonderful clothes!

The Secret of Rusty Things by Demeng seems interesting. I read many complaints in reviews that it was not a how-to book. I applaud him for that. Ok, he teaches workshops, but I can see where if he did a how-to, then it would just become a hobby. I mean, if the guy has an original idea, why copy it? But then, I am copying techniques of the old masters, so I guess it's all in one's perspective.

I think I want to taste that Clafoutis! recipe?

As for favorite Fall foods - pumpkin soup, pumpkin bread, apple anything, gingerbread, apple cider....

I love your pregnant women!

Do you only use digital cameras now? I know the one camera had the light issues and needed fixed but....

Fashion as art is something I can totally connect with. I remember my grafiti pillowcase dress in college. And my handiwipe skirt and vest... And makeup too. I drew all sorts of things on my face.

As for Andrea, she made a "broken mirror" dress that I absolutely loved!

Gingerbread! Great! I might make that a winter painting... I'll have to think on it. Right now I put up two still lifes: one for pumpkin and zucchini soup...and now I have a call, so I'll have to tell you the other in another post!

Hah, what a small world, Kim. I've wanted to ask you about how you made it overseas, but I suppose I'll save that for a private message sometime, if it's okay with you.

I'm just catching up on everything on GoodReads due to the past holiday, finishing that family project, and then the recent election. DC's been quite crazy, but in a good way this time.

Took a look at the fashion link as well-- I think I missed it the first time somehow. Seeing those outfits makes me want to learn to sew again... Peter Pilotto's "Intergalactic Style" is one that I'd wear right now with no hesitation. It might turn a few heads, but it's too stellar (was that a pun? sorry.) to keep in a showroom.

Odette: Thanks for showing me the cicada dresses, very cool. I wish people dressed like that, too. They are very inspiring. Since I like to photograph people, clothing has always been a big inspiration to me. And the idea of taking someone elses creation to make my own is appealing to one with few innate artistic talents (sewing, painting, drawing, etc.)

The folk art vs fine art question is interesting to me. I've always thought fine artists were a little too hoity toity, judgy. Folk art is marvelous for so many of the same reasons fine art is, and is often my preference. Folk art pieces have a life and a resonance all their own.

And as for children's book illustration, no question that much of it should be considered fine art.

Ah, Kim and Terri, thanks for holding me in your memory that way. I wish I had more opportunity. I've toned it way down, but I do like making the students at school sit up and take notice.
Hmmm, maybe I should do some self portraits in costume art, lining up models is so hard, all my best one's have moved away. Now I'd just be that weird old lady who wants young women to take their clothes off.
Kay - I, too, am in the DC area. I'm tempted to offer to model for you, since I love your ideas so much, but I know how short I am on time. Wouldn't it be great to be your dragonfly though.

Terri - I've been using the digital lately, but for art, I just don't like it as much. My problem is funding, for a digital SLR. I know, most artists put that kind of thing as a priority. But, my life being as unbeleivably busy as it is, things just don't happen ever.
And thanks for the kudos on the pregnant women, I really need to put those together on a web page somewhere.

Yup, very small world, Kay. I'd be happy to talk to you about my jump across the pond sometime. I will say, I feel very lucky in some ways being over here in Holland where there is so much great art to see! Going to see the Panorama Mesdag on Thursday next week. It's a big tourist visit so I've avoided it til now, but a friend talked me into it by telling me how real it seemed. Here it is: http://www.panorama-mesdag.nl/#

Andrea- I'd be quite honored, but time can definitely be tough to find. I work from photos too often because of that.

Speaking of models, I've been looking into the figure models guild in this area... I don't know if I have the money to join, or how close-knit the groups are, but it seems like an interesting option.

Hey Kay, I did draw models in a group both in DC and here in the Netherlands. I understand your concerns about the group dynamics and it definitely can have an effect. Altogether though, I got a lot out of drawing in a group. It was nice to take breaks and see what the others were up to, if nothing else to have new eyes when going back to my own work 10 minutes later. It is a lot cheaper than having your own model, which I've done too. The advantage of having your own model though is you get to choose the pose all the time, and the length of the pose. But if the group is democratic enough you can get what you want out of it. What is nice is if people are willing to change "spots" so that everyone can get access to different angles. Sometimes people have their favorite positions in the room, especially when they figure out the most advantageous one. I'd say give it a try, if nothing else you can build up a list of models and try creating your own group if you have the space! What's really great is drawing models on a regular basis. I miss that.

Kim, I'm trying to come back to this board slowly... I thought I saw that you posted a picture of your latest painting, but I'm having trouble finding it now. Where was it posted? I really liked it, but didn't get a chance to look at it fully.

Hi Kay, it was over in the "You Asked for It" thread. Here it is again though: http://kimpower.blogspot.com/
Let me know what you think!

Would love to hear more from you, if you do have the time, when you have the time.

Kim,
I just checked your blog link and saw your new painting. It's beautiful! I love all the dark, saturated reds and the texture contrast between the rough green-brown wall and the velvety-looking table. The texture of the cutting board is amazing -I can practically hear the sound of the knife dragging against it, making those marks. I really wish I could see the painting in person - see the actual brush strokes. What are the measurements of the canvas?
I love that even the edges of the book and table are rich with detail.

I agree with Odette... such rich colors. Feels like someone just stepped away from preparing to make something amazing and it tells the story with simple details... beautiful work, Kim.

Aw shucks...blush, you guys made my day! Actually, I'm not satisfied, but what artist ever is? The velvety table is what bugs me. I think I should have done more to relay it's texture. But, it's tricky, 'cause the board is wood and I needed the contrast...maybe more obvious shadows like on plastic, because it has this slick paint. I tried some peeling paint, but it just deterred from the image. Well, it's in my next painting, so I'll get another chance to see how to deal with it.

I have to measure the canvas, Odette! I'm terrible when it comes to numbers. I'll let you know soon and post it on my blog too. I really enjoyed working on the cutting board. I'd work on everything else, then go back an make a few more marks, then every thing else again, then more marks, all in layers. But the real key is that it is not believable unless the other objects are also believable. This amazes me every time. I wish you could come over an see it too!

Kay, it didn't start out so simple, but I took out a few things that didn't work late. I'm trying to do that now in the first part of the dead layer of my present painting so I can avoid having to work it all out later. Years from now, if someone x-rays it, they'll find a few more cherries and a flour sifter. Ha! Thanks again for boosting my ego.

Emilie and Andrea, I need to get back to you and I will this weekend sometime...