Artipathy discussion

This is the right time for me to re-read this book. The painting I thought was finished, I actually just finished today. I'm getting ready to sign it. I almost didn't finish it right, because of fear, fear of messing it up, of putting one too many strokes in. Yet, it was nagging at me these past two days, something wasn't right. Finally, luckily and as so often happens, the answer came. (Not enough shadow to show the light.) Finally, I feel at peace.

So, I open up the book and I see these questions:

How does art get done? Why, often, does it not get done? And what is the nature of the difficulties that stop so many who start?

How appropriate for this moment for me. I wonder if you guys would like to take a stab at these questions before we explore the authors answers?

Here's my response:
First, I would ask, how does one get started? For me, it is sort of like asking a question that you can't put in words. In this case it would have been something like, "Clafoutis, how can I show the warmth of affection and memory that you give to me and at the same time give the feel of the juice lying under your cherries?" See, I told you it can't be said in words. After starting, then there is persisting, asking again and again, how to fulfill that original promise of an idea and dream. And then to get it "done", when all temptation lurks to just let it go because it'll never be what you dream in your head because that is perfection. To have to courage to put that last stroke. For me, it gets done because if it didn't it would niggle and tickle like a mosquito bite that won't go away. It gets done because if it doesn't get done I can't get anything else done. My attention just isn't there. So, for me, the question of it not getting done is not a question. If it doesn't get done then it wasn't worth doing.

P.S. Clafoutis, for clarification, is a sort of cherry flan dessert.

I'm really enjoying re-reading this book. I think I'll make it a yearly thing. Has anybody read this or started? I'll post some further thoughts on it tomorrow.

I think that was a big issue with working in oils for me. I get something nearly perfect, but end up reworking the whole thing by trying to fix a single brush stroke, or section, that I perceived as unacceptable, eventually ruining the rest of it. WIth acrylic and watercolor, it's dry before I can play with it too much and I'm not tempted to rework EVERYTHING to fix one area. Taking a stab at oil again might help me practice a little restraint... because I did love the effect when it worked out.

I've started the book but will comment more once I've digested it all.

How does art get done? Why, often, does it not get done? And what is the nature of the difficulties that stop so many who start?

These are hard questions for me because I tend to be hard on myself when it's not "for myself" art (the difference between feelings when working on something "for myself" and "for work" are many). Separating my worth from what I produce is a touchy subject for various reasons, but I see that they address that in this book. I shouldn't see it as a character flaw if I don't produce x paintings in x days. But I do feel that procrastination is an issue for me. I will dwell on an idea until it's dead, without even having started. Once I've made the initial brush stroke all of that anxiety goes away and it falls together quickly. Then I become like you, Kim-- I have to finish or it won't let me go.

They tell writers to just write the alphabet or a word over and over if they get stuck. Sometimes it works with a brush too.

Ahh...there's the rub, perfection. When to know when to stop and when to push it. My teacher told me many times and it still rings in my head (along with many other bits of wisdom he sent my way) that you must be true to your vision and keep that vision. So that means remembering why you painted it in the first place, what was the feeling, the image that first inspired you. Keep those original brushstrokes rather than painting over them because they are the truest part of your painting. Otherwise you just keep repainting the same painting and lose it. This is good cautionary advice for me because otherwise I would do just as you say, fix it till it doesn't work anymore. Very nearly did that with the last one. Couldn't figure out why it wasn't working. Then I printed out the first picture of my grisaille and saw what I first saw again and brought that back. (In this case a contrast of light and dark that I had lost in painting out and object that didn't work.)

What helps me a lot when I can't see it anymore is turning it upside down or looking at it in a mirror, or upside down in a mirror. This next round I'm also going to work on two paintings at once so I can switch off to gain new perspective.

I understand about procrastination. I've been fiddling around with my still lifes enough now! That's why I'm working out a new schedule for myself and I'm gonna try and "clock in". I'm pretty good at obsessing about an image too. It slows me down when I paint because I start analyzing it. But friend gave me the advice, save the analysis for the end of the day. Trying to do that more, though some things you have to figure out on the spot. I also get caught up in the magic of it. Like I'll put down some paint and then be amazed at what it does to the painting and sit and gaze at it in amazement when I should just be going forward.

I think art is so difficult sometimes because we personally invest ourselves in it. I just pretend I'm doing it only for me now. Basically, I am. If someone doesn't like it, they don't have to buy it. It's not about the money that way, but about the quality of the painting. I had a good lesson in this when I was doing a landscape one time. There was a woman who just loved it while I was painting it. She made an offer on it before it was finished. As soon as she made an offer the advice started coming. Almost ruined the painting for me, but I just kept telling myself that if she didn't want it in the end, tough beans. I also explained to her that if I made the changes she wanted it wouldn't be the same painting and would change the vision. She bought the painting in the end and even gave me a bonus. That probably doesn't happen every time, but if you can't let go of the outside influence, then it is their painting and not your expression. Please yourself first, my motto anyway.

I love the writer's tricks. That's just like painting lots in order to get the quality pieces. Just keep going. I need to do that too and just produce without making it too cerebral.

Just finished up part one, and a lot of things towards the end struck me. Especially about being a product of your location and materials, and the subjects you choose. It's ridiculous, but sometimes I forget the "why" over just really wanting to with some projects. Important to have a purpose and meaning, I suppose.

Probably should have waited to post about it for when I'm more awake and can clarify.

I'm actually into part two, but I need to go back here and write about some of the things I thought of, but I also have to remind myself of what those were! And I'm awake. I'm gonna have to reread the part you are referencing so I am clearer before I respond or wait till you clarify, Kay.

I like that right away they state that making art is about the process and that in doing it you are facing yourself, also facing your worst critic I think, and learning about yourself in the process. They hit upon something that I struggle with and that is wanting every piece to be amazing. It really is true, that you have to do art to do good art. I get slowed down trying to make it all "perfect" and even blocked at times worrying that I won't make it the way I see it in my head.

I was walking to a painting site with my teacher/friend one session. I was to start a new painting, my second landscape. The first one I had chosen was almost an interior as it was amongst trees framed by a gate. All of a sudden I had all this sky to deal with and I was intimidated. I said, "Painting sky must be really difficult." My teacher stopped walking, looked at me with fire in his eye and said, "Do you WANT to paint?" My soul and my voice answered at the same time, "Yes." The problem stopped there, never to be broached again. I painted with my heart that day. I sang. I keep that memory to remind me not to get stuck, just to do it. It's good to remember it today.

But it is personal and if it doesn't work out I have to get over it to get to the next thing. Usually, I just put it aside till I figure out how to make it "work" or I just say, well, I know where I went wrong so I learned from this for the next one. I'm actually never satisfied. Even when I really like a painting I know I could do better. But I guess that is what keeps me making art. If it was perfect right off there wouldn't be a challenge and I'd be bored, right?

Purpose and meaning...yeah, very important. But I getcha. When you get into it sometimes you can forget the original idea. That is the key though, keeping alive that flame that started your desire to do the painting in the first place. Plus, sometimes it is so easy to picture it being done that I forget why I'm still working! Then I bring myself back to the feeling. It's like keeping a memory alive. I think it helps to work faster, and that is something I strive for, to keep the idea alive.

I think I mean that at this point, when I try to inject a lot of meaning and symbolism in a piece, it tends to look a little forced. But when I go by what looks interesting and what feels right, people tend to read more into it. So I need to find a way to back up my intentions without being obvious, I guess.

On a different subject, I can't seem to find the section now, but something in the first part reminded me of this video about perseverance by Ira Glass:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hidvE...

edit: and I know what you mean about a never being satisfied. All the mistakes stick out, it could always be a bit better. Keeps you on your toes though and helps you learn. I like how they say that we're lucky in that we have our body of work to look back and learn from.

I'm well into the second part now, and should be finishing up soon.

Quickly,and I'll write more later, love the Glass clip and watched some of his others. Yes, it is about making lots of work and as he says in another clip about letting lots of them be failures so you can get to the really good stuff. I need to do this, need to produce more every day. Need to draw every day. I have the ambition to do it and yet get caught up in the perfection of everything I do. But that is one reason to do art, to learn these things about ourselves, because we are facing ourselves in a very confrontational way, and learn how to get out of it, to push ahead, to overcome our obstacles.

I'll come back tomorrow and talk about the whole symbolism and meaning aspect. I have some thoughts there.

Thanks for the clip. I think I'll favorite it to remind myself about some of the things he said. Oh, and I really like how he says how important it is to have a deadline to produce work. Very good, even if the deadline is only your own. I might use that. Like have a goal of getting a certain amount done a week...

The Ira glass stuff is GREAT!! Super for my broadcast class. I think next semester I'm going to have them create this american life type podcasts. So thanks for the tip.

Oh, and the thing about perseverence is much like Anne Lamotts concept of shitty first drafts (this is writing of course). They are allowed and even encouraged, because otherwise you'd never put anything on paper.

I've tried making deadlines, but they never stick unless, like he said, there is someone waiting for the work.

*Perfect* for a broadcasting class... I love Ira Glass. I look forward to hearing him every week. You're welcome. :)

Kim, I'm thinking about taking up a painting or drawing-a-day type goal for the new year to keep active deadlines, but am also trying to keep in mind not to burn myself out. I think I could do it though if I didn't focus on the *quality* (or maybe "details" is a better word?) of each and every piece.

Andrea, I also have that problem. Unless someone's waiting, it doesn't feel pressing enough.

I suppose the -first draft- concept is what makes NANOWRIMO (national novel writing month) so popular and successful, so there must be something to it.

That's like Danny Gregory's Everyday Matters group. They have a drawing choice every two weeks, or is it one? Don't remember because I lost interest there. Found I wanted to draw what I wanted instead. Yes, I keep making that promise of a drawing or painting a day too. It is a good goal. I am going to try really hard to stick to it. Even if it is just 15 minutes it is a good warm up for whatever art you are doing that day. Like the Artist's Way three morning pages. She has you write just three pages of free thought every morning, before you have time to analyze. That's really it for me, keeping the analytic, left brain turned off, and the right brain on full blast. Right brain usually wins anyway, but the analytic part likes to sneak in and break up the party.

Andrea, have you read the Artist's Way? I think it would have a lot of relevance for your teaching. She adds in stuff about her religious beliefs, but you can interpret that for yourself how you want.

Kay, back to the symbolism stuff. I think it is best, like you say, to go with what intuitively feels right. The symbolism sometimes just takes care of itself. I've found in my paintings that the symbolism of it hits me as I am working on it and sometimes I just drop in a little object that gives a hint of the idea. The trick with symbolism is not to be too obvious, not to turn it into a commercial. Like painting matches and then painting the word "hot". I'm being really obvious here to make a point. It's like that last little brush stroke, just the last little accent is enough. I struggle with it too. I'm trying to work it out in my next two compositions about Fall. But I know I'm thinking too hard about it. It's like a shadow, I have to catch it from the corner of my eye. I think the drawing a day thing can exercise this kind of seeing. To that end, I'm off to start my day by drawing today!

Kim, I do have the Artists Way, but haven't read it. I'll try to pick it up again. For me, any kind of whatever a day (writing, listing things you're thankful for, drawing, heck, even things like clearing the desk off, just don't maintain, it's the ADD. I think for it to work for me, I need to have another person helping check up on me. That, or change my expectations a little, I can't even manage to bathe the kids daily (we got lazy with Ethan's eczema, where fewer baths were recommended).

Another good book for you, Andrea, could be Twyla Tharp's "The Creative Habit" that I'm reading now. What she says is so clear and meaningful about how to make art part of your life. Maybe it could help you with handling the ADD more too. Who knows? Hopefully, we will eventually get to The Artist's Way here sometime.

Hey, I was thinking of using the Twyla Tharp book as my book of the month (saw it on your list) That or Man Ray's autobiography,which might be tough for people to get a hold of.

Do you mean the one titled, "Self-portrait: Man Ray"? Either one would be fine by me. If you do Man Ray, I might get it for Stan as a late present. Is it hard to find?

I think I had to special order it ages ago (then never read it, typical). But, now with Amazon and what not, could be simpler.

It seems it would be easy to get lost and lose that focus. And I thought that the part about staying in the rpesent is very important. But it seems like the present has to connect to the part or it would be disjointed if that makes sense

Kay wrote: "Just finished up part one, and a lot of things towards the end struck me. Especially about being a product of your location and materials, and the subjects you choose. It's ridiculous, but sometim..."

More thoughts as I move along (page 77 now). Competition: I think competition is a double edged sword. It can make us try harder if we are competing against someone we respect. or it can make us feel inadequate if we feel we can't do as well or keep up or whatever...

And then there is the effect of commercialism. Money is nice. Commercial success means money. And of course, the consumers can be quite fickle. I think the main thing is you can't change what you are doing to make it more commercially appealing unless you are at peace with that.

Been moving along in the book. All the talk about academia made me think a lot. I understand the importance of teaching history and techniques. And it is a way for students to expand their horizons. But it is hard for me to comprehend the concept of grading art. How do you compare very different pieces? it is fair to?

I also thought ti intersting that teaching often leads to stopping making art. I know time is an issue (it always is of course) but I would think the teaching relationship is a way to learn as well for the teacher. And inspire...

All this makes Me think of the film Art School Confidential. LOL

And finally I thought it interesting that books about art rarely address MAKING art as a process. And that is what most needs to be learned.

Interesting question, Terri. I had that dilemma when teaching. My solution was to grade the students on effort. But there are also other criteria that you can base it on, like how well an artist communicated their idea, though this is selective as well. Why it's important to have more than one opinion! You can also grade on technique. It kinda depends on the level that the artist is at. If I was grading beginning artists, I would be less strict with the latter as it is important at first to feel the joy of making something and have the feeling of creativity. Later, refining those skills to produce your actual vision becomes clearer.

Teaching is a great way to learn! I've always learned from my students. Helps keep the mind open and ideas fresh! Plus, trying to explain something to someone just reinforces what you know and helps you see better. And yes, it is our job, as teachers to inspire, sometimes, unfortunately, egos, time, and deadlines get in the way. They shouldn't. We should be able to take all the time in the world to repeat, explain, repeat again, show in a different way, repeat again, till someone is able to understand. Damn institutionalized learning!

I think you just came up with a reason for me to write a book some day...on the process. But there are others out there writing about that. Reading Twyla Tharp's "The Creative Habit" and getting from her perspective on it. There are others out there and some on our list!

Just re-read the part about annihilation. About how the stake is even higher for artists that identify deeply with their art being who they are. I had my own experience with this when we bought this apartment a year ago. I spent six, SIX, months away from my art. I thought I could just put it aside and do what needed to be done. Nearly made me crazy. It sneaked its way back in first with my moleskin and then when I had a chance, I jumped on it and forgot everything else. Lesson to me, never, never stop. But it is not so much as who I am but a need I have to make art, maybe to somehow deal with the world around me. Not sure it is about identity for artists, but a sort of hunger that must be fed.

That sounds horribly stressful. Glad you learned the lesson without having to repeat it.

It was! I won't be repeating it, ever!