Exclusive Author-Editor Chat featuring author Meljean Brook and editor Cindy Hwang discussion

On the Welcome thread I noticed a question from Ros, and thought I'd open up a general publishing thread, too -- so if you have any questions about our process that doesn't pertain specifically to one series or the other, this is a great place to ask!

Ros asked: "So, I heard that Cindy discovered Meljean through reading her fanfic. Is that correct? If so, I'd love to know what fandom Meljean wrote for and whether or not any of your fic is still online? Did you find the transition to original stories hard or were you ready to write your own worlds? Do you have any other advice (creative, literary or legal) for other fanfic writers?"

I wrote DC Comics fanfiction, specifically Batman and Wonder Woman romance. I think you can still find some of it at fanfiction.net (under Meljean Brook and Ugly_Girl) and jlaunlimited.com (under Ugly Girl). I'm not sure how the formatting holds up, however; the last time I saw them, the html was completely screwed up. I'm not going to look now, because I'm sure I'd be horrified.

By the time Cindy e-mailed me, I was moving away from straight fanfiction and beginning to work on alternate universe fanfiction (moving farther from canon) and was about thirty thousand words into the book that would eventually be DEMON ANGEL -- so I was definitely moving that way already.

I can't give any legal advice at all. :-)

For writing advice, the awesome thing about fanfiction is that you are working with already-established characters, and so if you go off-characterization, there will be people who will tell you that you've completely effed it up. I can't stress the value of that enough -- in most fandoms, you learn to take criticism or DIE.

You can also see how freaking hard it is to establish and describe a world. It seems so easy in the comics or on the cartoon, but there are SO many things -- facial expressions, settings, dialogue -- that seem natural and effortless when they make it to us in finished form. It's NOT effortless, however, and I can't tell you how many times I agonized over Batman's speech and making certain it sounded right. It's good practice for making your own characters sound authentic and true to their background/setting, too.

Meljean,

I find it interesting that you wrote fanfiction. Fanfiction has long been a guilty pleasure for me. You can find some great stories and authors out there, but you do have to search. :-)

I found your first book through Marjorie Liu's blog (she posted a link to Demon Angel and when I read the scene posted I HAD to have the book). I was a fan of Ms. Liu's (first fanfiction then her original novels) and followed her blog.

Ms. Liu wrote for the Marvel fandom and now writes for Marvel. Would you ever consider writing for DC (or any other comic if they asked) and further developing your take on DC characters?

Cindy,

What were you looking for as an editor when you saw Meljean's fanfiction? Had you seen some examples of her original writing? Have you found that a lot of newer authors have written fanfiction before they be come published?

Bookwormgirl wrote: "Cindy,

What were you looking for as an editor when you saw Meljean's fanfiction? Had you seen some examples of her original writing? Have you found that a lot of newer authors have written fanfiction before they be come published?"

Reading fanfic is something I do for fun--like other readers, some books or characters I love so much I want to spend more time with them, and see the paths not taken, but possibly could have happened, in the hands of another writer. The Batman/Wonder Woman pairing was actually my first foray into fanfiction--it's not canon, but as far as I'm concerned, it should be, especially in the hands of a writer like Meljean. When I first read one of Meljean's fanfic, I enjoyed it so much I did what I normally do when I find a new-to-me author--I read everything else I could find. After I exhausted all of Meljean's fanfic, I noticed that she had posted a chapter from an original project on her website, and I decided to check it out. The original work was intriguing, but it was the strength of her fanfic that gave me the confidence that Meljean could write a successful original novel. I don't know if I'd have that kind of confidence in her storytelling if I hadn't read her fanfic first, but because I did, I knew she was a writer I wanted to work with.

I don't know if most writers start out writing fanfic, but I know many do, and I agree with Meljean that it's a great way to hone your writing skills. There are many wonderful writers doing fanfic, and besides Meljean, I also discovered another of my writers this way--Jean Johnson, who writes both militry science fiction and romantic fantasy. She wrote in a different fandom however.

Gosh, I've never heard of Fandom, and fanfic, but I've pulled up both links.

What I would like to ask Both Ms. Brook and Cindy, (sorry I don't know your last name) is:

Do you know with the first book, whether you have a series on your hands and not just because it's a hot seller but because there is more to be told?

I've heard that writers are normally contracted for three books, that's just a rumor I heard.

In Ms. Brook's case each story just 'fit' together so well. It seemed like the possibility of the idea's where born at the same time as the first book. Were they? or again is an expanded story-line agonized over and is a part of your decision to write more in a series or not?

~elaine o.

Wow! I'm totally floored that Cindy discovered Meljean through fanfic! That takes her awesomeness to a whole other level, major props to both of you! lol

@Cindy So since you weren't originally looking to 'find' but were reading for your own enjoyment is that something you've changed now? Do you or your colleague's now activly search online? How else do you personally discover new talents?

@Meljean I gather since your first book wasn't even finished that you hadn't even begun composing query letters and such, what was your reaction when Cindy first contacted you? :)

~Nix

@Evilqueen21, you took the words right out of my mouth and articulated them properly, without the fangirl squeeing & flailing that I would've done, especially since Jean Johnson is on my autobuy list and THIS EXPLAINS SO MUCH-*ahem* Thank you.

Continuing with the adult indoor voice, I've noticed ads for Berkley romances at Fanfiction.net and now I know why! My question is now that an author has been published, do they tend to distance themselves from their fanfiction? I know several mainstreamed published authors, not huge sellers, who are/were active in my fandoms and they tended to keep their "real" work very separate from their fan work. Do you think this is a common practice, whether from embarrassment or legal issues, like if they filed off the serial numbers?

Cindy, I echo @evilqueen21's question about your selection process. I can think of only two fanfiction authors off the top of my head who wrote something I could see selling if the stories didn't involve copyrighted materials. Another author got picked up by a small press, but while she's talented, I don't think she's quite there yet with her original works. How do you separate the truly gifted from the excellent forgers?

Bookwormgirl wrote: "Meljean,

I find it interesting that you wrote fanfiction. Fanfiction has long been a guilty pleasure for me. You can find some great stories and authors out there, but you do have to search. :-)

..."

I love Marjorie with a mad love (and I love her work at Marvel. She's one of the few writers that I'm still following there. I nearly wept with joy when she brought Gambit in.)

I'm not really sure my really, really long style of writing would work well in a comic format ... but who am I kidding? If I was ever asked, I'd say yes in a heartbeat.

Elaine wrote: "Gosh, I've never heard of Fandom, and fanfic, but I've pulled up both links.

What I would like to ask Both Ms. Brook and Cindy, (sorry I don't know your last name) is:

Do you know with the first ..."

For the Guardians, I knew it would have to be a series -- the story I wanted to tell would just be too big for one book, and I would need several to tell all of the stories.

For the Iron Seas, I *hoped* it would turn into the series, so I created a world big enough to tell as many stories as I needed to in it.

So it was almost the opposite. The Iron Seas doesn't need to be a series, but the Guardians do. Whether they need to be or not, however, I do like playing for a long time in each world. :-)

evilqueen21 wrote: " I gather since your first book wasn't even finished that you hadn't even begun composing query letters and such, what was your reaction when Cindy first contacted you? :) "

Okay, this is a long answer, because I actually knew who Cindy was at that point, and she was at the very top of my dream editor list.

I'd begun writing my own original fiction -- and I was trying to figure out where I should eventually submit it. I was a huge fan of Angela Knight and MaryJanice Davidson, and followed them from Ellora's Cave and read about how they'd gone to Berkley -- and their editor, Cindy Hwang.

So when I was thinking about how I might want to approach this writing career, I considered that: subbing at Ellora's Cave, and maybe to someone like Cindy Hwang, because she obviously had the good sense to contract two of the writers whose work I'd loved.

Then, she e-mailed me.

Of course I thought it was a joke. I mean, seriously -- right? It was just ridiculous. I hadn't been studying the market long, but I knew that didn't happen. I needed to finish up the manuscript, be rejected a million times, write another one, be rejected again, and so on.

That was almost exactly seven years ago. I still have the e-mail, of course.

Lady Lioness wrote: "@Evilqueen21, you took the words right out of my mouth and articulated them properly, without the fangirl squeeing & flailing that I would've done, especially since Jean Johnson is on my autobuy li..."

In my case, I didn't keep my fanfic separate (not that I advertise it on my site, but I haven't bothered to take it down, either, and it's under my pen name.) I think that if Cindy hadn't found me through fanfic, however, I might have pushed that history under the rug -- not out of embarrassment or anything, but just because I wouldn't have been certain whether my editor/publisher would have a problem with it, and I don't think that I would have wanted to jeopardize that relationship for the sake of a few stories that, while fun, wouldn't actually further my career.

But obviously Cindy didn't have a problem with it, and when I asked if I could use "Meljean Brook" (which I'd also used to write the fanfic) she said that was fine, too.

In any other scenario, though, I'm not sure how open I'd have been.

Thanks so much for answering this! It's fascinating to hear how that worked for both Meljean and Cindy.

I've been writing fanfic all my life (long before the internet and long before I knew that was what it was called) but it was when I started to post bits of it online and get feedback that the idea of writing for other people became a reality. I agree with everything you say about fanfic being a way to hone different aspects of the writer's craft - not least as a way to prove you can sustain a story for the length of a novel.

I can see how, in your circumstances you were fine about leaving your fanfic up, and using the same name. It's so cool that Cindy reads fanfic for fun!

Lots to think about. Thank you!

To Both Cindy and Meljean,

Thank you for answering all my questions!

Cindy - I will now have to check out Jean Johnson.
Meljean - If you ever wrote for any comic it would be a definite buy for me!

Bookwormgirl wrote:
Cindy - I will now have to check out Jean Johnson.
"

I really rec Jean Johnson. Her stories are more fantasy than Meljean's, but they are fabulous. They are similar in style to Tamora Pierce and Mercedes Lackey, as far as that fairy tale-esque feel. You should read The Sword first, but then you can skip around if you don't mind spoiling yourself.

Lol. You can take the girl out of the bookstore, but you can't take the bookseller out of the girl! *shakes head ruefully*

Meljean wrote: "Lady Lioness wrote: ..."

Thank you for all of this. This is fascinating to read and it's great to get a 'professional' perspective about fanfiction.

How did you learn about Cindy's involvement in Knight's and Davidson's careers? I learned about her when her name kept popping up in dedications and acknowledgments, but editors tend to be, like, the back-up singers of the publishing world. Everyone knows they're there, but no one really knows how much they do or who they are.

Lady Lioness wrote: "Meljean wrote: "Lady Lioness wrote: ..."

Thank you for all of this. This is fascinating to read and it's great to get a 'professional' perspective about fanfiction.

How did you learn about Cindy..."

I was a member of their Yahoo groups (a total fangirl, lol) and they would mention names when talking about different sales and business. :-D

Lady Lioness wrote: "Lol. You can take the girl out of the bookstore, but you can't take the bookseller out of the girl!"

And thank god for that :-D

Ros wrote: "I agree with everything you say about fanfic being a way to hone different aspects of the writer's craft - not least as a way to prove you can sustain a story for the length of a novel."

This was really true for me. I'd been writing for a long time (and I kind of always had a dream of being a Harlequin Presents writer from way back when I was a kid, because I devoured HPs then) but aside from short pieces, I never really finished anything. I had lots of ideas, but never carried them all the way through.

So I was in college, working in accounting, and pretty freaking unsatisfied with what I was doing. My first fanfic was very deliberately an exercise that was: "Okay, this is it. Either you finish this long story, or you just give up this idea of writing." And it was fanfic, so no real pressure, right?

So that took me about eight months, ended up being 60K words or something like that, and finished. Then I finished another, and another. I wrote mostly fanfic for about two years, then I kicked my own ass and said: "So I've proved I can do this writing thing, then I really need to do this writing thing" -- and that's when I started my original paranormal romance (and Cindy e-mailed me a few months later.)

So there was a small danger that it might become comfortable or a crutch -- "I've proved it to myself so I don't need to do anything more now." I really, really had to stop myself and remind myself that fanfic wasn't where I was going, or where I wanted to end, and that it was a practice run. A fun practice run, and I made a lot of friends (many friends that I still e-mail/see in person today), but I definitely had to keep going.

When you go from fanfic to original work, there is a leap away from a comfort zone, and similar to the leap you have to make when you put your first fanfic story online. Kind of terrifying and exciting all at once. Worth it, though.

Wow. This whole thread... is exactly the sort of thing I needed to read to get some perspective on transitioning from a fanfic-type writer to writing your own original fiction. Not that I've ever really written fanfic-fanfic. I spent my 20's writing in play-by-post RPGs, some original and some fandom based. It's been difficult to move out of a collaborative group setting like that AND attempt pure original work.

Maybe that's what I need to try... lol fanfic from start to finish as a way to see if I can stick with it. Make it a practice run. I never even thought to try that.

Thanks for sharing Meljean. This gives great perspective for someone in my shoes. :)

A random question that can bring Cindy into the convo!

Something I've always been curious about (and scared of when I think of ever trying to be published) is how much an editor impacts a novel. Can you guys give us any examples of the scope of say minimal editing influence on the outcome and maybe a pretty massive editor's request change that you two have done together?

(I hope that made sense, I know what I'm trying to ask but wording it just isn't coming out clearly).

Meljean wrote: "I kind of always had a dream of being a Harlequin Presents writer from way back when I was a kid, because I devoured HPs then"

I love that! I'm always on the lookout for authors who read HPs. I think of HPs as contemporary fairy tales and it seems to me like the writing of HP reading authors has a more romantic feel even when there's no overt romance.

MaryK Audiobook wrote: "Meljean wrote: "I kind of always had a dream of being a Harlequin Presents writer from way back when I was a kid, because I devoured HPs then"

I love that! I'm always on the lookout for authors ..."

I agree with that 100%. I don't read much contemporary romance, but I love HPs. They have a completely different, over-the-top ridiculousness to them, but I love it SO MUCH.

evilqueen21 wrote: "@Cindy So since you weren't originally looking to 'find' but were reading for your own enjoyment is that something you've changed now? Do you or your colleague's now activly search online? How else do you personally discover new talents?"

Actually, I still read fanfic, but again, purely for pleasure, and although I can honestly say that there are a few fanfic writers I'm keeping an eye on as possible original fiction writers, frankly, I'm enjoying their fanfic too much to encourage them to give up writing fanfic right now!

I do know my success with Meljean and Jean has encouraged some of the other editors to approach some of their favorite fanfic writers for original fiction--I know that's what happened with the editor who bought Dianne Sylvan.

Most of the time though, I acquire new authors the traditional way--by submission. Sometimes I'll hear about an original ebook that readers are excited about, and I'll try it to see if it clicks with me too.

Meljean wrote: "evilqueen21 wrote: " I gather since your first book wasn't even finished that you hadn't even begun composing query letters and such, what was your reaction when Cindy first contacted you? :) "

Ok..."

I think I still have my first email from Meljean too, where she asked me if this was all a big joke!

Have a question for both of you.

Meljean- As an aspiring writer whose heard that until I have enough rejections to wallpaper my bathroom (currently I'm working on the splash board)what was/is the best tip you ever received?

Cindy- I submitted to a publisher and after a few weeks was requested for full at my earliest convenience. I inquired as to verify she received and she confirmed receipt and said she should be reviewing over the next few days. That was just over a month ago. Would it be rude to inquire yet, or should I just sit tight?

As far as fanfic...did that for a few years for the pure joy of it. Author approved as her book series had ended. Started when I hated the way the network ended the series (with NO ending at all)and wrote my own ending. )

Thanks to both and Congratulations Meljean on your latest release and success.

Lady Lioness wrote: "@Evilqueen21, you took the words right out of my mouth and articulated them properly, without the fangirl squeeing & flailing that I would've done, especially since Jean Johnson is on my autobuy li..."

Thanks so much for the kind words, and I'm thrilled that you're a fan of Jean Johnson too!

I do think many authors do tend to separate themselves from their fanfiction, although not always for the same reasons. For some it's legal, for others, I think it's a matter of not being as involved in the original fandom because they're busy writing original fiction and not fanfiction any longer. I know Jean is less involved in her fandom now, but it's a time thing as much as anything else, although I have in the past bugged (or rather begged) her for more fan fiction--in fact, I think she even dedicated one of her fanfics to me. (Note to Meljean--weren't there a few unfinished fanfics you promised to write for me? ;-) )

When I read fanfiction, I'm not looking for a carbon copy of the original--mostly because most of my interest revolves around non-canonical pairings, so there isn't much in the way to copy! The closest Batman and Wonder Woman ever got to an established romantic relationship was in the Justice League animated series, and there are hints at a possible relationship in a few of the comics and graphic novels, but nothing was ever really developed enough for my romantic leaning heart. So I started reading fanfiction to get my fix, as it were, and the writers who not only wrote what I wanted to read, but could really develop the characters and the world were the ones to catch my eye. As Meljean said, she was starting to write more and more alternate world stories using Batman and Wonder Woman--more Elseworlds, to use name of the DC Comics line for their alternate universe comics. I could tell from that she was bringing more of her own original ideas into her fanfiction, and that she was probably ready to make the jump. Plus, I knew she could write a full-length book--and that she could finish a story too. There are lots of great writers in fanfic who can't finish a story to save their lives--not the kind of writer who would be good for original publication!

Lady Lioness - thanks for the book recommendation.

Speaking of taking the girl out the book store but not the bookseller out of the girl.. I totally agree with that one :D When good books are found YOU MUST share them! It is the Prime Directive.

Dana wrote: "Cindy- I submitted to a publisher and after a few weeks was requested for full at my earliest convenience. I inquired as to verify she received and she confirmed receipt and said she should be reviewing over the next few days. That was just over a month ago. Would it be rude to inquire yet, or should I just sit tight?"


As someone who is always months behind on responding to submissions, my instinct is to tell you to just sit tight. And being behind on submissions is a pretty common state for most editors, so if I were you, I would give the editor at least another few weeks before you follow-up again.

Rhianna wrote: "A random question that can bring Cindy into the convo!

Something I've always been curious about (and scared of when I think of ever trying to be published) is how much an editor impacts a novel. C..."

Every editor has a different style when it comes to revisions, and there are some with a heavier hand than others. We all want the same thing of course--to have the best possible book written and published. Of Meljean's titles, DEMON ANGEL was definitely the one where I had the heaviest hand, but I don't think I would consider any revisions request I made a "massive" one.

Elaine wrote: "Gosh, I've never heard of Fandom, and fanfic, but I've pulled up both links.

What I would like to ask Both Ms. Brook and Cindy, (sorry I don't know your last name) is:

Do you know with the first ..."

In general, when something is submitted to me, I'm told upfront if it's the first in a series. Oftentimes, there are synopses of future books included too to show where the author plans on taking the series.

Meljean,

I think I remember an old blog post of yours where you posted pictures of one of your notebooks that you used to write one of the Guardian Series. (It was very long ago and I don't remember which one). I bring this up because of a question asked by another on the welcome thread about your organization while writing your books.

I remember this blog post because the images spoke to me of the creative process. It was very organic and also logical (if somewhat messy *grin*). Do you still write your first drafts in this way or have you tried and found something else?

Also, in keeping Cindy apprised of your time lines and continuity, in what format do you send her the info (i.e time line, flowchart, summaries)? Do you have one big timeline printed out that you modify each book or just major plot points summarized?

Thanks for answering my Q's Cindy & Meljean!!

@Lady Lioness RE: You can take the girl out of the bookstore, but you can't take the bookseller out of the girl!" I do the same thing! That's what I mentioned in the into thread, was after reading Iron Duke it turned into my personal mission to get everyone & their mother's to read it! I just love it that much!! lol

I added Jean Johnson/The Sword to my list! I've never heard of her before, but 8 smexy men 1 girl? o.O That should be interesting! lol I actually just started reading Alyssa Day's Warriors of Poseidon series, who I believe is coincedently another of Cindy's authors! I was instantly hooked, I'm already on her latest one Vampire in Atlantis...

@Cindy Do you have a backlog of your own listing authors you work with? Lol I'm thinking I need to check out what else I'm missing! You've proven you have impeccable taste! ;)

Bookwormgirl wrote: "Meljean,

I think I remember an old blog post of yours where you posted pictures of one of your notebooks that you used to write one of the Guardian Series. (It was very long ago and I don't rememb..."

Oh, I don't send her anything like that; if the book can't make logical sense as it stands, then it needs to be rewritten. And I don't keep the info organized for my own purposes (I have the primer on my website, but I don't need it for myself -- it's all in my head.)

I think that these are the notebook images that you're referencing (BEWARE THE SPOILERS!!!! and messy handwriting) Here and Here.

I do like to sketch scenes out this way, especially if I'm struggling. I can't actually write by hand, which is weird, I have to type it -- but notebooks are great for organizing scenes and making a checklist, of sorts, for everything that I want to hit on in a scene.

Meljean wrote: "I think these are the notebook images that your referencing (BEWARE THE SPOILERS!!!! and messy handwriting)..."

Yep, that was them. :D

Thanks for taking the time to answer all these questions!

That you keep the time line in your head is pretty cool. Using your notebook to sketch ideas and writing via keyboard I totally understand. The keyboard is faster, easier to edit and comes with spell check ;-)

Bookwormgirl wrote: "Meljean wrote: "I think these are the notebook images that your referencing (BEWARE THE SPOILERS!!!! and messy handwriting)..."

Yep, that was them. :D

Thanks for taking the time to answer all the..."

I think that it's simply that I get into modes -- a notebook is my brainstorming/organizing mode, and a computer is my writing mode (and sometimes my online mode, which causes ALL KINDS of problems, lol).

evilqueen21 wrote: "Thanks for answering my Q's Cindy & Meljean!!

@Cindy Do you have a backlog of your own listing authors you work with?

LOL, well if you're going to ask...

I've touched upon a few of my authors in various posts--yes, Alyssa Day is one of my authors, as are Jean Johnson, Nalini Singh, Thea Harrison, Christine Feehan, MaryJanice Davidson, Angela Knight, Eileen Wilks and Shannon K. Butcher, to name a few. I don't just have paranormal authors, but my list is a bit paranormal-heavy, I admit!

Meljean wrote: "I think that it's simply that I get into modes--"

As the person in the Voracious Reader Mode, I can get behind the various modes you utilize to create your work. Because at the end of it, I and your other readers get to enjoy the results, and then clamor for more very politely when done. :)

Cindy wrote: " I don't think I would consider any revisions request I made a "massive" one"

I wouldn't either. I've heard stories from various authors with various publishers. I have been lucky. :-D

@Cindy Oh- Love Singh & Harrison as well! lol Yep you're made of awesomesauce! ;) ...Added Butcher & Davidson to my list as well! Thanks again!

Cindy wrote: "In general, when something is submitted to me, I'm told upfront if it's the first in a series."

Cindy,

Is this something you're more open to when it comes from established authors rather than never-published/barely-published-and-new-to-you authors? I've always heard authors in the latter category shouldn't start with "I've got a great idea for this 15 book series!!!" :)

Katie wrote: "Cindy wrote: "In general, when something is submitted to me, I'm told upfront if it's the first in a series."

Cindy,

Is this something you're more open to when it comes from established authors r..."

LOL, I think 15 books may be a bit excessive, but I think most editors want to build careers, so giving an editor a sense of future book ideas is smart, for both new and established authors.

Meljean wrote: "Bookwormgirl wrote: "Meljean wrote: "I think these are the notebook images that your referencing (BEWARE THE SPOILERS!!!! and messy handwriting)..."

Yep, that was them. :D

Thanks for taking the t..."
Oh my gosh i love so many of the authors you have on your list here. Some I've never heard of but now I'll be checking them out based on the great quality of those I do recognize. I would really have a hard time picking a favorite from your list as all of authors are keepers to me.

I write erotica.