Debate discussion

Hmmm . . . I like discussing this topic :)

I don't believe in God.

I don't think he exsists. There are many things that back up science, and nothing that backs up God. The only way he makes sense is if you trick your mind into believing in him. Science is real, right here, right now. God isn't.
Also, people say that everything has a creator. They say that God has to exsist because how else could everything be create? Well, how could God have been created then?

I beleive in God and nothing that you can say will change my mind! Have THAT to compete with :)

Ok... I'm not trying to change your mind, I'm saying why God is impossible.

But hes not impossible. THAT is fact. You MIGHT be able to pull off "improbale" but impossible is a humongous over statement.

I agree w/Rosemary. The only "proof" that God exists is that "Well, the Bible says so, so he must be real!" Right. So I guess dementors are real too, cuz Harry Potter says so!

oh, and i hate when people give all the credit to god when good things happen. and they're like, "oh this is PROOF that God exists." Um. Okay. So when horrible things happen, is that PROOF too? If everyone I know dies in some horrible fire or something, is that PROOF that God hates me? I don't think so.

There is no God. There is no "plan". There's just life.

That's how I see it.

Tell me 5 things that support the idea that God is real. And don't say he's real cuz of the bible, or that faith is proof cause it's NOT.

ANYTHING is possible. Just because YOU don't beleive in him doensn't mean that it is impossible. Improbable is OK, but not Impossible

yet you seem to have no reasons that he exists ... hmmmmmm!!!

Brigid, thats not fair!

I'll get to those when "MP" replies

but it's true! rosemary asked if you had any proof that he existed, and you avoided the question!

W/E! I'll get it later . . . Like when she replies.

ugh. fine ...

Its so funny. We are having two totally different converstations right now . . . Hurry up, RoseM!

My father is a pastor. I believe in God. If there was no God, how would we possibly exist? It just happens that the Earth is exactly the right amount of space from the sun. It just happens that Earth has the perfect tilt to support life. Coinsedence? NO!!!

I'm on! Damn, your just beating around the bush cuz you have NO PROOF. Now you're going to get off so you don't have to answer.

How about the fact that all the other planets can't support life? It's because we started as tiny organisms and adapted to the climate, which did happen to be in the range of life. But if everything has a creator, who is God's creator? And you can't say "He has none, he just is" because then you're contradicting everything you said.

yep, I knew it. After I post something that may (and does) disprove your "God" you get off because you can't think of anything!

I will NOT get off. Here are my reasons:

1. Does anyone actually want to beleive that we were once apes? Thats because its NOT TRUE! God created all men, in his own image.
2. Like What Ulf The Dwarf said, how could we possibly just be living here with no means of anything. No god = No us.
3. . . . One sec . . . Lemme think . . .

1. Does anyone WANT to believe, no. But just cuz you don't WANT it to be true, doesn't mean it isn't.
2. If everything has a creator (you say ours is god), who is God's? And you can't say that he has none, then you'd be contradicting yourself.
3. ha! i knew you couldn't think of anything good!

I have nothing to say to # 2 because I am mormon, and mormon's do not agree w/ most other religions :)

Seriously; Rosemary is right. People who believe in God act as if he exists just because they can't wrap their minds around the concept that we were created through science. There's no solid proof that he exists.

And I'd also like to point out: it's all a matter of how you were raised. Ulf the Dwarf, you said that your father is a pastor. Well DUH you're going to believe in God because I'm sure your father is always telling you that God exists. And Seth, I'm just guessing that you're being raised in a religious family. This isn't a decision you've entirely made for yourselves; a lot of it comes from your family. If your family raised you to worship baloney (bad example, srry) then you would worship baloney.

Now ... I'm in a family where we don't really have a religion. Does that mean that my parents are extreme atheists and constantly tell me I shouldn't believe in God? No. They told me that I could believe in whatever I wanted. And you know what? For a lot of my life, I tried to believe in God. Maybe I even did believe in him. But in the end, I just couldn't anymore. Life just made me realize that God can't possibly exist in my mind.

I didn't even know if my parents believed in God or not until I told them that I didn't. And they were fine w/it. And THEN they told me that they didn't believe in God either.

THAT is the way one should decide to believe in God or not. It's a personal choice, not something that should be forced into your head.

It wasn't forced in my head. My family told me that we could all choose what to beleive.


Brigid, I am guessing that you have never been to church? Never really LEARENED about god.

My sister needs to do her homework! I promise I am not leaving because of you guys :)

Oh, I've been to church. I was raised with no religion. But my Grandma is religios and would take me to church when I was little. I never believed in God, he just never made sense. And when I questioned, people would just say "We know in our hearts that God is real."

I've been to synogogue, and I've studied Torah. I go to a Jewish school, for crying out loud! We have Tefillah every morning, which is where we're supposed to recite prayers to god like robots, and we have Judaica, where we study the stories about god.

Yes, I know a lot about the Jewish version of god. And all my knowledge is partly what helps me to decide that there is NO god.

You can't call me ignorant, and say that the reason that I don't believe in god is because I don't know a lot about "him," because I know a lot about who he's supposed to be. And it shows me that he doesn't exist.

People who believe in god say that "everything happens for a reason." Well, if that was true, then god is a very cruel person for everything that he does to the world.

Look. When a child dies of poverty every two seconds (and i'm not exaggerating, this is true: go to www.poverty.com) does that happen for a reason? Does something good come out of it? Is that how it's meant to be? No! Children die of poverty because that's the way this messed-up world is, and that's how cruel fate has to be. It has nothing to do with god.

If there really was a god up there, why would he let these things happen? Why would he let a child die every two seconds, millions and billions and gazillions and an uncountable amount of human beings die from things so simple as poverty if he could control the world? if he had any power? Why would he let the wars continue on in iraq, let thousands of soldiers die each die, if he could prevent it?

He wouldn't! Unless he was a very cruel god- he wouldn't let that happen. But it IS happening. So either there is no god, or there is one, but he has no power over the world and stands back and watches everything, helpless.

And if god can't stop world problems such as poverty, or wars, why do you think he would be involved with something much less significant, like the details of people's lives- including working out when and why people will stop living?

There are 6.5 billion people in the world. how could a higher power control the lives of ALL of them? And if they could, wouldn't that mean they could stop the problems, like poverty and wars and world population?

So no, I do not think there is a god or a higher power- at least, not one capable of doing anything.

Science makes much more sense. And it actually has PROOF.

I like to belief in something that has proof, not just something that may or may not be true. Is there any actual real evidence that proves that god is real? No. Only stories. Is there any real evidence that proves evolution? Yes.

Maybe someday there WILL be proof that god is real. Who knows? Maybe god will come down and tell everybody that he does exist, and that he created the world, and man.

When that happens- when I see it with my own eyes- that's when I'll believe it. But right now, science is much more believable than god.

And I don't know if it's just me, but I'd rather believe in something that actually has basis and proof, than just a story or idea that could be true, but is highly unlikely.

And I think it's kind of funny how whenever the people who believe in god have been asked to give reasons WHY, they always try to avoid/sneak around the question, and they've never been able to actually give a straight answer. Which only proves my point more.

And there's another thing that doesn't make sense about the whole "god" concept. There are many different religions who all believe in god, and they all have different view/stories of him. All of the different religions god is different than the other. So if there really was a god, which one was it? A christian god or a muslim god or a jewish god or a mormon god? Or all of them together? Or a bunch of different gods? I don't think so. It's because all religions have different opinions of what they think god SHOULD be.

So I'm sorry, but for me god can't exist.

And people say god is nice and forgiving... what did all those poor kids do?

Exactly.

And some people say the believe in god because they say there's no way that the earth just exploded into being from nothing. Well, I can't believe that god uttered a few sentences and a universe was created magically. It makes no sense.

And the fact that god was there in the first place, before anything else, doesn't make any sense, either. How'd he get there? What was he doing there, just floating around in space? Did he magically appear there randomly one day? Who or what created him?

Yep! So if zGos was just created, why couldn't the earth?

Well, I believe in a higher being. I don't think that they control our lives. I think that they come when we really need them. And, I'm sorry if I sound ignorant, because I've been thinking this over for a long time, but I don't think that they would really care that 1 out of 4 billion people died. Even if it happens every second.
And I agree with Seth to some extent. Anything is possible. Is God possible? Yes. Is evolution possible? Yes. Evolution makes a bit more sense to me simply because it has facts and studies to back it up.
Does that mean that God didn't play a role in it somehow? No. But I believe in the Big Bang, and Evolution.

Seth, I've been to a Mormon church. They restrict women too much.
In fact, all christian religions restrict women too much. Has anyone besides me noticed that women play almost absolutely NO role in the bible? And when they do, they're doing something bad or evil? What's up with that?
Women create life with the help of men. We're mini gods. Worship us! ((jk))

But it seems to me that if there were a god, it would make sense if it were a girl. Because women create life. Inside of them.

I think that there has to be some higher being just because of the complexity of our surroundings.
But science has a lot of answers. Whereas religion tells you to pray to something unknown and thrust your fate into their hands.
So I support science most of the time. But I do believe, that, in a way, we were created.
Could that mean that God made the first particle, then stood back and watched the world happen? Yes.
And in a way, that's what I believe. A higher being created this...thing. And that thing kept growing due to evolution until here we are on Earth in a humongous universe in which our galaxy is only a pin point.

But he does exisit! I really wish that you would just BELEIVE.

But that's hard for me to do. I believe that something higher exists, but I don't want to just live my life praying and 'dedicating myself to God'. I want to live my own life, with my own dreams. If I'm in a bigger plan, okay. But I'm going to go my own way, and my way is to the facts.

I think that you need to have faith.

How can I have faith in something that makes no sense? Something that seems almost utterly impossible in my mind? Something that I can't reason with or see at all? Something that doesn't exist!

gaah i need to catch up on all this ...
but fyi seth, i HAVE been to church. and sorry, it didn't change my mind.

I have a very religious background.
First, my mom was MORMON when she was a child. But she decided she didn't believe in it.
Second, my dad was CATHOLIC and his other relatives still are.
Third, I went to a Catholic school when I was in kindergarten. But, believe it or not, I got tired of people telling me that I would go to Hell.
Fourth, I now live in Utah. The Mormon capital of the world. Most of my friends are Mormon, and I've gone to church with them sometimes.

If religion makes someone a better person, okay.
But for right now, I'm just going to find out about as many religions as I can and decide which one I belong to.

Yes, that is what I want to do. There are actually a variety of books on religion in my house, not counting the bible.

And I've always believed in some higher power. For a while I was polytheistic, actually. That didn't last too long though.

And I find that all of you who are arguing against god are actually arguing against christianity/judaism/islam, in a way.

Those area the religions that say "god created everything, he created man in his image," as that is part of genisis, (i think it's genisis anyway) which came from the Torah. the Koran and the Bible stemmed off of the torah.

Frankly, I don't believe that god created man in his own image, or even that he created everything. I mean, I believe in the big bang and evolution. I belive in science.

Everything I know goes against the existence of God. Yet, for some reason, I still believe (S)He exists.

Oh, and Sella, on something you said earlier, despite your website to back it up, children cannot die of poverty. They cannot die of poverty, just like people cannot die from aids.

Yes, it's true. It's 100% true. Nobody can be killed directly by these things. It's only the effects of these things that cause people to die.

For instance, poverty causes no money to buy food, and there is death of starvation. Not direct death of poverty.

AIDS weakens your immune system. Then you would get a sickness that you couldn't fight off. You would die of that illness.

See what I mean?

I have no expectations of convincing anyone here to believe what I believe. Trust me, I have a history of getting myself in many debates, and I have learned the most important thing about arguing there is to know: I’m not going to be able to convince someone on issues about things like God, and religion if they believe differently from me. Sure, if they’re uncertain then I could try my best to show them my views on the subject, but I’m not a priest. I’m not a nun. I don’t even know the things I need to know to convince someone that my religion makes sense, and God makes sense. I’m 15 years old. No one listens to kids. That’s just life. So I’m going to try to make myself as clear as I can, but I don’t expect you to agree. If something really doesn’t make sense, please tell me. Forgive me if I am ignorant on arguing on this subject, or on other religions. I haven’t had too much experience on arguing with people of different religions, or who don’t believe in God at all. So here goes nothing.
I believe in God. I’m a traditional Catholic. “Oh.” You probably think. “She doesn’t know anything. She’s Catholic, probably born into it, and she probably doesn’t know anything about other religions.”
No, I’m not going to say I understand you, or your religion, and yes I was born into it. But that doesn’t mean I don’t know anything about the rest of the world! Yes, my parents are Catholic; my grandparents are Catholic, and probably their grandparents also. Half my relatives are, and half my friends are, so I’m pretty much surrounded by people who believe the same things as me, but that doesn’t keep me from wanting proof that God’s really up there. More like the opposite. I’m very into facts, and logic. I always want proof. So most people would be like ‘why do you believe in God if you always want facts?’ Because, think about it. So like all of a sudden there’s a big boom in the middle of nothing and the whole universe is born? And then on the little smidge of a planet, called Earth, there are these animals- called Apes. Gorillas. Monkeys. Whatever they are- and they start changing into humans? Logically, that makes absolutely no sense. If a person can believe that everything wasn’t, and then BANG with no help or anything, everything was, then why can’t they believe that BANG humans were there from the start. I’ve read MANY articles and things about evolution, but so far, they haven’t really provided any proof. Real proof. I mean, I believe in partial evolution. Evolving slightly to accommodate change in surrounding and climate. But Evolution like, ‘once upon a time, there were apes, and over hundreds of years they changed slowly into humans.’ No, I don’t believe that. I mean, if the apes evolved, how come they’re still a bunch left? Why haven’t they all evolved? And what change would be so drastic that they needed to change from the animal that they were to something like a human?! What about now? People are starving left and right, dying with sickness and exposure to the elements. Why aren’t we evolving into superman yet? With our advanced technology, wouldn’t we be able to tell if we were slowly evolving? So far, nothing that I’ve heard of has popped up. Unless you believe in X-men that is.
And then about the argument that surly if children are dying every 2 seconds from starvation and poverty, then how could there be a God? Do you believe in a God that would be so heartless? Well, I’m not sure what everyone else’s views on it are, but Catholics believe that God gives us freedom of will. Think about it. If God gave us free will, and we abused it, resulting in starving people, and he intervened, then we would never learn would we? And then it wouldn’t really be ‘free will’. It’d be ‘free will to do all good stuff but no bad stuff.” Might as well be puppets on a string. Ok, well I think I’ve written enough for now… if I’ve missed something, please tell me….
-Clare

I believe in God and you cant change my mind no matter WHAT you say

cool and there is a God and so i agree with you

I believe it is unfair to rush your opinions on someone about religion but, personally i do believe in god, but stating facts or opinions id one thing, but rushing opinions on others is very unfair.

I will start out by saying that I didn't believe in God until three years ago. First off, how did God get there to create everything else? Second, if God is such a GOOD GOD, why did he make me live through such a horribly abusive childhood? That doesn't sound like a GOOD GOD to me. Thirdly, why would he allow all of this poverty and wars and famine. I am now, however, a hugely floundering Christian. I started thinking about different times in my life. I had an horribly abusive childhood. Someone kept me alive. It wasn't me. It had to be God. I lived through two abusive boyfriends. How? It had to be God. I can find no other explanation for it. My mom are talking again after a long estrangement on both of our parts. Who was able to make this happen when we were both still so stubborn. I was God. I was reading a book called "Your Best Life Now" by Joel Osteen. It was making me sick, because every other word was God. I kept putting it down, and every time I did, a little voice came and said to me, "Keep reading. You'll be glad you did." So I read it all the way through, and I felt so positive and alive, which I had never felt before. What was that little voice? I believe it was God. I became a Christian right after I read that book. That was just too many good things, I couldn't explain them away. There had to be a higher power (God, in my case) who put all of those good, life-saving things into my life.

wow

Whew. Okay ... Here we go ... I respect everyone's opinion, of course, but this is what I think.

You people are making it sound like monkeys magically transformed into humans. No. It's not like that. And probably we started off not as monkeys as we necessarily know them today, but a different species that was similar to monkeys. And over time, survival of the fittest occurred. Adaptations were made. We adjusted to the environment. It occurred over millions and millions of years. Humanlike skeletons have been found that were structured sort of like monkeys. Evolutions has been seen in other animals as well. Whales and dolphins evolved from land animals ... How else would you explain mammals living in the sea? Bugs evolve to become resistant to pesticides. It's been scientifically proven!

As for the beginning of the Earth ... Well, I can't say that I can prove anything about that. Nobody really knows for sure how it started. BUT just because science hasn't proven it yet doesn't automatically make the Bible right. There's no proof for either one, so there's no point in arguing over it.

I mean, I have no problem with other people believing in God, really. I just can't do it myself. But I can't help but wonder ... I mean, Randi, how come you can't give YOURSELF credit for all the awful things you lived through?

And Alexi, could you provide more of an argument? You've said over and over "Yes. I agree. There is a God." Well, that's a tad opinionated, don't you think? If you could TELL me why you believe in God, that would make more sense to me.

I think I stort of agree with you, Brigid. I think that it does depend on our parents. (Well, maybe not for you. :P)

it depends ... it's just that a lot of ppl make their religious decisions based on what their families teach them. but that's not true for EVERYONE. i mean, my parents are atheists like me, but they don't really preach to me about it, u know?