Pope Joan question

I actually quite loved the book, and took it entirely differently than a lot here did. I didn't read it as a history novel, but rather as more of a book that took a little bit of strange historical evidence, pondered "what it?" and ran with it. Of course there isn't much historical evidence for it, and if you read the book you can see why, had this or something similar actually happened, there would be very little if any evidence. This was a definitely A+ book for me!

I read this book years ago for my book club, and truth be told, it is probably a book I would have otherwise passed up, but I was pleasantly surprised with this book. It was a really good read. I know there's been plenty of controversy surrounding its origin and many in the Catholic faith totally disagree with its content, but for me, whether true or not, made for an interesting story and a darn goodread. However, if I'm really going to leave my opinion here, I have to state that I find many of the things mentioned in this book to have truth to it, based on some research I did later on regarding it. I think because Pope Joan had outwitted the men of her day, out of anger, they don't want to give props to a woman for having done so, and well, I think that's too bad. If it's true, which I think much of the story is, good for Pope Joan. It was an awesome story and I loved it.

The historical setting as described in the book was not so unbelievable to me. Set in the 9th Century, that part of Europe was dominated by Viking and Danes invasions well known for their barbarism and destruction; the dominant political figure of the century was Charlemagne; the printing press would not be invented for another 400 years later, which precludes widespread litteracy, either amongst the upper classes or the clergy, as books were rare and of extremely high cost in that era. Monks (which were mostly illiterate themselves) were used to copy books (which they could not read but could copy and illustrate beautifully). There were no such employment in women's convents. So, the premise is not unrealistic. It was not called the Dark Ages for nothing.

As part of the history of Wimborne Minster, because Joan's parents went to the continent from there, I mention the incident in talks about Saxon times. There is still a street named after her in Rome apparently and her reputed son rose to be a bishop. As already mentioned, why was the 'special' chair used afterwards if there had not been the need for the cardinals to ensure that the man elected Pope was in fact a man. Records were doubtless altered to expunge her short reign.
In Saxon times this sort of incident spread quickly by word of mouth no doubt being embroidered and exaggerated but the core event almost certainly took place.

Women have portrayed themselves as men to serve in positions unavailable to them, such as women serving as men in the civil war, so I am not surprised that a woman could move to that level, especially given the time. But I'm not Catholic, so it is easier for me to believe that this could have happened.

I enjoyed the book and couldn't fault it for its writing or the story it presented. Was she presented as fully three-dimensional, no but then again, that would be difficult to do, especially from our time frame. She was probably very typical for that era with the strict religious father she had. Running away to something that would open the world of education to her sounds like a very logical step if you were able to pull it off and obviously, this was one smart young woman.

I liked the plot, and I also liked Joan, even though her genius has intimidated me because she was as Louis said: smarter and better than everyone (and I am also a girl). Nevertheless, she is one of the characters which I have taken as an inspiration to be a polymath.

Now I understand that there were some coincidences and strikes of luck in her life so she continued living and developing her skills and knowledge, which at some point were fantasy and there shouldn't have happened, but I think the author wanted to put a possible (or fantastic) explanation of how a woman, during a totally closed and chauvinistic era, could become a pope and how she got pregnant which led her to her downfall.

A Room of One's Own by Virginia Woolf also mentions a story about a girl version of Shakespeare, a girl with a potential and a genius at the same level as Will, it was very realistic, so you might imagine what should have happened.

My husband always asks about the books I am reading. When I told him about Pope Joan (I never revealed the chair) HE TOLD ME about it. Now, he never read the book but said the chair is well documented. That tells me something was amiss that they had to create such a chair for proof. Uh huh. So, do I believe it happened? What I do believe is that sometime or another a woman tried to get in, whether or not she made it to popedom.

Mary wrote: "Our local book club pretty much dissed it for historical inaccuracy, unbelieveable plot twists,and general grossness. What did you think hfictionistas??"

I believe a novel is, by definition, fiction and therefore historical accuracy is not a prime component. Historical authenticity is more important. that is, does the made up story have the flavor of time and place. A novel isn't a history text and shouldn't be judged by that criteria. Is it a good story with believable characters whom I can love, like or hate, with a plot that intrigues me and pace that keeps me involved. I think Pope Joan has those qualities.

This book was given to me as a gift last summer. I started reading and initially just couldn't get past the brutality towards women and the overall mysogeny. I knew, though, that in time I would go back to it. I approached this as historical fiction, not history. As a matter of fact, in the notes from the author at the end of the book, she says exactly that. She does, however share quite a bit of the research that she had done into the ninth century itself and the persistent rumors that once there had been a female pope. I loved Joan's intelligence and her nature of making the best of things. I agree that the character of Gerold and the romance was a bit much but on the other hand, the tender moments provided something of a respite from some of the harsher elements of the book. I'm reallly glad I went back to this book and finished it. I am a liberal Presbyterian, but my friend who gave me the book is Catholic as are other friends of mine who have read this book. At any rate, I think that at least for those of us who enjoy historical fiction from time to time, this book is indeed a "good read."

I thought the writing was terrific, but the author relied too heavily on coincidence to move the story along. I, too, have posted a review here.

I read this a LONG time ago, but I remember loving it. I've always had an affinity for books with strong female characters though :)

I just finished reading this today and I agree with the comments posted so far. I found the book enjoyable and it kept me interested. However, I was bothered by the neat tying up of loose ends. I know it is fiction, but her father shows just in time to die? That added nothing to the story for me. The love between Joan & Gerald was too romance novel for me, too. Regardless, I do believe that Pope Joan could be a historical character and that possibility is quite enticing. I'll be ready for my book club on Thursday.

I read this book a long time ago for our book club. I remember liking it very much and enjoying the history of the time. I also believe it could have happened esoecially knowing how well the church covers things up...the latest being the example of child abuse.There are alot of years in between here.

I agree. Joan was a little too Mary Sue for me -- everything came too easily for her. I like characters to struggle for their eventual success or downfall. The more conflict the better.

The romance aspect also grossed me out. Gerold not only knew her as a kid, but he also had a daughter close to her age. It was so gross! I thought this weakened the book dramatically.

I also thought Joan was a little too vocal on some of her opinions for the time period. A man wouldn't even get away with some of those ideas she was sharing. I believe this was the time period where they hanged people, burned them alive, and tortured people for saying anything against the majority opinion.

So, it was an "okay" book to read once. I was disappointed.

Loved the book. Whether it has factual basis or not, it not important to me. I enjoyed the story. It made me realize the opportunities we have as women today and be grateful. I am also grateful I chose to be a Mom. It is fun to entertain the idea that this most possibly could have happened.

I agree with Stephanie and Denise. If some thing like this did happen there would be very little evidence, due to the spotty records from that era and the Catholic churches willingness to cover things up. I really liked the details at the end showing what few facts are known, supporting the possibility. Among my top 10 for historical fiction.

Too many people are ready to dismiss this as myth because their church tells them to do so. As a former Catholic, I believe that "if" this had happened, it was very quickly hushed up BY the church. Why should this surprise us? We all see how much information has been made to go away with all the priest vs children controversies. Why would this have been any different for the church to do in the past?

It passed the time on a long flight but since there is almost no historical evidence for it, it was just a pasttime. That being said, John Julius Norwich devotes a chapter to the legend in his book Absolute Power a history of the popes.
So...who knows at this point. I'll trace her supposed disastrous route when she had the miscarriage next time we're in Rome.

My review is on Good reads. I thought it was a good read for the time period. But as the book went on I liked the title character less and less. In particular, the fact that she was so much smarter and better then everyone around her is something I tend not to like in characters, because my experiences in real life that the truly talented did not succeed alone, but they had others who could challenge them and/or help them along the way. So without a co-conspirator or confidant for support, Joan seemed to go deep into Mary Sue territory.

My book club did the same thing but I enjoyed it as a good read and I still learned something about that time period and church traditions. I also like that the author included information in the back of the book about the legend.

I read this novel in the German edition last winter and I didn't like it.
It should have told a "what if" story in a plausible way, like it really could have happened (I don't believe that there was a female Pope, but that's not relevant for my dislike - if something is described in a plausible way I can accept any what-if stories). Instead it's full of mistakes so that it is impossible that it could have happened that way.
If people say that "they've learned about religion and the life of women of that time" they should be aware that these are not represented as they've really have been.
Women were far more emancipated than described here, up to the late Middle Ages literate women were no exception. While mostly in upper classes, nobody would have seen a literate woman as an abnormality or would see her as acting against Gods wishes. So why would a woman live as a man/monk if in truth there would not have been a problem with her as a woman being educated?
And the witch trial at the beginning could never have happened as described here. There weren't trials like that for several more centuries.
And then there were small things: Look how old the male protagonist, his wife and his older daughter are. Does this match up to you?
If you try to ignore these things you get a story full of stereotypical black-and-white characters. Yes, it's gripping and you want to know how such a child could become "Pope Joan" as the title already implies. But for me it's wasn't fun at all as everthing was just unbelievable.