Indie Book Club discussion

Ok, just had a weird flurry of activity around my book and I'm now looking for some legit input. If you're just looking to b*tch or say how much you hate this that or something else...not really the discussion we're looking for here.

My book (linked to this thread) recently was reviewed by a site that professes to help authors, but appears to be more about bashing them (unintentionally it appears).

Prior to this review I had received no less than thirty "omg, pretty cover!" and "ooooh, story sounds fun!" comments. Not one negative. I was really pleased. Now don't get me wrong, I know the cover text could use some work and I know the picture is not ideal for ebook (still working on re-cropping to make it better), but I think it's gorgeous on the paperback.

The reason I am posting here...

This review site lambasted everything external to the book. I'm talking scathing hatred from some of the reviewers and just downright nasty crap from the rest. They unanimously agreed that the book isn't fantasy or even spec-fic, despite the random animal people on the cover with medieval weapons.

So...the book cover and cover text...anyone mind glancing over the link and pop me a message or reply with the following:

- Does this appear to be a fantasy book?
- Is the back text ok (yes, I'm working to improve it, but question remains)?
- If you can get a good look at the picture, is it ok?

Thanks to anyone who's willing to let me know on this, as the random review folks have me slightly paranoid now. :)

Jim

Hi Jim -

Just for clarification, to make sure we're looking at the same exact thing, can you post the link to your book, whether on Amazon, or here on Goodreads? I'd be more than happy to take a look and tell you my honest opinion.

Just an FYI, at first glance, I thought it looked just fine, but will take a closer look.

I would say ... fantasy. Ignoring the fact that the characters on the cover have swords, there's the mention of dark magic, dwarves, etc. And let's face it, humanoid animals are definitely fantasy!

The text for the cover is fine, though a little faint. I would consider making it bolder (at the moment, your name stands out more than the title). Perhaps have your name off-centre, and move it down and to the left of the mountains. Also a smaller font for your name.
The book title has the problem of being greyish text over a dark background, so it either needs to be light, or very dark to stand out more.

I quite like the picture! the only thing I don't like is that the wildlings appear a bit like humans with their heads replaced with that of an animal, particularly the wildling at the front (the female character in the background looks ok). From your blurb, I was picturing characters somewhat like those found in say, Starfox (ie Fox McCloud), where they're a little shorter and bulkier. But that's just my stylistic taste more than anything. Other than that, it's a really impressive cover! Much better than mine.

I do think the blurb could do with a bit of tidying up. It's not very snappy (you should've seen my original blurb for Liberator's Ruin *shudder*. It's a lot better now, but I still think it could do with work). Have a look at some of the blurbs for David Gemmell's books, such as Waylander, or Skilgannon the Damned.

I've downloaded a sample of the book - I might think your blurb needs some work, but it still piqued my interest :)

Phill

Out of curiosity, what was the site that lambasted you?

Sent by PM to be nice. :)

I definitely agree on the blurb. To be honest the blurb seems harder than the entire 198,000 words in the book.

Definitely still working on the text on the front cover...again, looks great in print, not so great as a tiny image on-screen.

As for the animal people, it's hard to find artists who can envision non-humans easily. I did actually picture them more like starfox's characters, though the fox girl turned out great. The closer character...yeah, couldn't put my finger on it, but I think you're right, he looks a little too human.

In Wilder Lands: The Fall of Eldvar

If you're referring to the link that you provided above, for In Wilder Lands: The Fall of Eldvar, then here's what I honestly think:

Upon first glance at the cover, I personally think it has a "fantasy" feel about it. A green valley ringed by mountains on one side with a burning village/castle on the right. Are your characters humanoid animals? No denying its fantasy there.

I've personally read only one story that I ordinarily would not have, as the cover depicted humanoid animals, but I'm really glad I did 'cause the story was really good.

The title graphics are a bit hard to read. Maybe add a whitish glow to them? Either way, I think your cover looks absolutely fine.

Well glad to hear.

The other people claimed the burning boat (there's no boat...what boat...I see no boat!) and the pirates (what?!?) were indicating it was not fantasy. I'm thinking they didn't even look at it.

Oh well. Thank you so much for reassuring me that I didn't completely screw up the cover. :)

Boats and pirates?

Dude, whatever they're on, tell them to please share. :)

Oh, the blurb is absolutely one of the hardest things to write! After the synopsis. I was originally planning to go down the traditional route, so I spent ages distilling my book down to a single page. As many authors before have said, it's harder than writing the book!

How the hell did they think it was a pirate?! Sure, the character is wearing a loose shirt, but that's all. And do they not have pirates in fantasy worlds too?

Lmao. Jeffrey, you're actually the 3rd person to say almost exactly that. :)

And yeah...I have no idea. I think that group really just enjoys bashing books. That's my only theory, since some of that stuff made no sense.

Whatever it is, it has to be psychotropic.

It does seem a bit like they're bashing you. No one was really offering decent constructive criticism, which I hate. For example, yes, the blurb needs work, but you don't need to say what a wildling is. That's something that can be learnt through reading the book. The whole point of a blurb is to be teasing.

Cretins.

And this is why I love you guys.

I would agree.

Anyone with half a brain would see "wildling" and then think, that's gotta be what the author calls the animal people. That's the first thing I thought.

And if not, like P.J. says, it attracts interest and curiousity in the book. Either way, it's a good thing!

Well... I think the image is a great start, but it's not optimal. I've seen much, much, much worse however. Covers are tricky business and hugely important, esp with indie/self-pubbed works.

In my opinion the title/subtitle is hard to find. It needs to be larger and in an immediately readable font.

My next observation is there's too much sky and mountain on the page. The design elements (creatures, city, fire) you're employing to hook potential readers are too small and vague in comparison to the background.

Set aside the reviewer's smarmy bash factor, it does need some tweak and polish, but not a complete overhaul.

Just my .02

Good Luck.

Awesome. That's what I'm working on. Thanks! :)

I've been on the receiving end of cover-bashing myself, so I feel your pain.

I pretty much agree with what Patrick just said. The sad truth of ebooks is that the thumbnail is the most important size for the cover art. Since yours is a water-color, zoomed out image, the details (and the fantasy elements) just don't come through. The bottom half of the image is great, and would get the point across to potential readers, but it's hard to see at small size.

I will say I agree with the spacial issues some other members have brought up. Honestly I think that a "fantasy" cover is something we are trained to recognize from big publishers. When I used to walk into a book store I could look at the covers of books and have a general idea of what publishing house was behind them.

Honestly I don't necessarily think that having something that stands out from that mold is a bad thing. One other thing on the cover that could be improved (in my opinion) was mentioned a little earlier. The water color look fuzzes the edges and doesn't translate well to the smaller image.

I found the blog that was responsible for the comments that had you start this thread and I wouldn't worry too much about it. I didn't really see any major qualifications stated by the person running it (not that I have any myself either). Find something you are happy with and you think attracts readers. I have seen books on Goodreads that have 8-10 editions with 4 or 5 different covers through them. I guess that is a wonderful thing about the ebook. You can make changes much easier than paperback.

I like the cover. I like the sweeping sky; it makes me feel that I'm in for an adventure. I do agree that the title font could use some tweakage, and here's my suggestion: go to Staples (or a Staples-like establishment) and purchase Print Shop. There's a bazillion versions, so flip them over any get the one with all the fonts. It'll run you all of $9.99 and you can expense it on your tax return.

As for the site that bashed you... Well, some people are jerks. As you move onward and upward, they'll just fade into the distance.

I rather like the cover art. It does say "fantasy" to me, and (positively) it doesn't say cliche. The title etc is a bit hard to read, especially in thumbnail. Don't dwell on the negative review. Not everyone will like a particular book. If there's constructive criticism, take it on board for the next project (if you agree with it).

The cover is nice, but the text is too small and getting lost in the cloudy sky, and to tell you the truth, while a beautiful picture, the first thing I thought of when I saw it was Hawaii - I don't know why. After really looking, I saw the people weren't human.

So, IMO, enlarge those elements that will tell the reader that it is a fantasy. Sometimes all you get is a thumbnail listing and you really want to draw the reader to your book. I hope my comments were helpful.

You've all been a great help. Thank you. I've already started updating the thumbnails on sites that let me. Still working on the back cover blurb.

You know, the back cover blurb has got to be the hardest part of the book to write. At least it was for me.

Having to sum up my book in just a few paragraphs was a royal pain in my keester, not to mention that it had to be worded in such a way as to attract attention.

So I feel for you. Good luck!

Coming in late to the party but thought I'd just say the artwork is great, and definitely fantasy. Blurb is a bitch. The easiest way I've found of writing blurb is to just go at it one day when you haven't been thinking about your book at all or been working on another book. You have to be as objective as possible and distance yourself from the story. But it's tough.

The only problem I can see with the cover (as others have mentioned) is the text. It's not bold enough for an ebook thumbnail photo, and the contrast isn't high enough - I think the problem is the picture goes from dark to light where the smoke and sky is. Perhaps you should have something like this: http://www.blacklibrary.com/Images/Pr...
This has a light background but a black square surrounding the text. Just by 2 cents.

You and me both. :)

For now (though it hasn't updated on some sites yet), I've gone ahead and cropped the image and removed the text (since it's listed next to any thumbnails anyway). I'm working on a more contrasted text to upload soon.

Back cover...yeah. 20 revisions later, still contemplating that. :)

Ok, the GR ones are updated with a test-run of a new back cover following suggestions given. Images updated as well (though the tiny pics still seem to use Amazon/BN's pics, rather than the ones I uploaded).

Let me know if that's better.

Thanks!

Thanks! I'll wait for a few more thumbs-ups before I push it to the kindle, nook, and print editions, just in case there's more suggestions. :)

I'm liking the new cover.

And Deb, where have you been hiding with this blurb formula? There's a blog out there that charges $25 for a back cover blurb, maybe you should get into the blurb business :)

I like the cover and the space doesn't bother me. What I would do, is make the font bigger and easier to read. Other than that, the colors are great, it has a very fantasy feel to it.

As for the blurbs, well, those are just pure evil. I rewrote mine a bunch of times before I got it to where it is. Yours isn't too bad though, I think you get the main plot of the story though.

Weird thing though, whenever I look at a small image, the title isn't there, but when I click on the Look Inside on Amazon, it's there. Is anyone else having that happen or is it just me?

Patricia wrote: "I like the cover and the space doesn't bother me. What I would do, is make the font bigger and easier to read. Other than that, the colors are great, it has a very fantasy feel to it.

As for the b..."

Amazon's doing that for everyone right now since I replaced the image. Trying to figure out where the 2nd image is being saved and replace it too. So it's not you, it's amazon. :) I _think_ the second one is the actual inside the ebook image, which would make sense...will probably upload a new version to see soon.

Okay, thanks Jim. I kept looking and thinking, What title??? lol

Here's my question. I've had inexact results putting a cover in my epubs. Anyone else have this problem? what's the best way to add your cover? Any help would be appreciated.

I used Sigil without issue. Using Mobipocket or any of the other creators, I had as much luck spitting into the wind as I did getting ToC or cover art to stick to an epub.

Inserting a cover onto my ebook, using both Kindle Direct Pub and/or Smashwords, wasn't too difficult.

My 1st book has different covers for ebook and the paperback editions, and I don't like that at all. But, it was my first book and I was learning. The sequel I just released was done right. Well, in my opinion. :). Had the cover professionally done and sized properly for the print edition. As a result, both ebook and print edition have the same cover, making it easier to assure the reader they have the right book. Again, that's just my opinion.

Big J

FYI, inserting a ToC into an ebook isn't as difficult as its made out to be. I've done it, so if anyone has questions about it, fire away!

I agree with Jeffrey - a ToC is pretty easy to do. You can use the 'insert table of contents' feature in word 2007 onward, or the smashwords style guide will walk you through it step by step. It's more time consuming that anything.