Outlander Series discussion

Does anyone know what the heck that picture is on the cover of Echo? Just curious!!!

It's a Caltrop(sp?). I think that's what DG said it was (correct me if I'm wrong). We saw several of them at the visitor center at Culloden. They are a type of weapon that when thrown, it always landed with one of the "spikes" sticking up in the air. It was meant to disable horses as well as soldiers during warfare. They're really nasty looking and could do a real number on tires today!

Also, the caltrop has four points signifying the 4 separate story lines or cliffhangers... ;)

Jen, Sinatra fan wrote: "Also, the caltrop has four points signifying the 4 separate story lines or cliffhangers... ;)"

That makes soo much sense! I didn't even think about that! Thanks

Lauren wrote: "That makes soo much sense! I didn't even think about that! Thanks"

You're welcome! DG always has meanings to her book covers. :)

I still like calling it a "Celtic chicken-foot". Diana had mentioned that people told her that was what it looked like.

**SPOILER ALERT**


Recently DG posted one of her Daily Lines that mentioned the sex scene between Lord John and Claire...that spurred me to leaf through Echo and reread the grief scenes where they believed Jamie was dead. *sigh* So good--because we know he isn't--so well done.
While I've always liked John because of his devotion to Jamie, I think it was these scenes that cemented my fondness for him. After I read this book, I devoured all of the Lord John books--which hadn't grabbed me previously. It was interesting and fun to bond with John :)

Unlike a lot of people, I loved that scene too Dana. (view spoiler)[ They were both so lost and vulnerable and seeking comfort. I don't blame either of them. And it happened only that one time (if you don't count the hand job which I don't. (hide spoiler)]

**SPOILER ALERT** (I need to learn how to hide it!)


Carolyn F. wrote: "Unlike a lot of people, I loved that scene too Dana. [spoilers removed]"

Exactly, Carolyn...I don't see it as 'cheating' on Jamie,they thought he was dead. It's such a poignant, sweet scene...especially as they talk after. *sigh*

i'm with you guys. it didn't upset me. They were (view spoiler)[grieving and reached out to each other (hide spoiler)].

**SPOILER ALERT**


Wendy F wrote: "i'm with you guys. it didn't upset me. They were [spoilers removed]."

It wasn't like it was just anybody with Claire...it's John...he loves Jamie, he loves her because of Jamie, the friendship is profound I think. I don't expect Jamie will be too harsh on them, I really don't.

Harsher with John than with Claire, but even then I don't think he'll react with the same temper he would if the situation were different. He won't like it, but he'll also grudgingly understand.

*nods* I agree. :)

I heart LJG, so I was fine with the bump and grind. It made sense to me, that whole purging of grief between the two. Now, having said that, I can't see Himself being all "Oh, no harm done. So you and the Mrs. got it on. No worries, dude!". It was a very well written scene.

LOL! No, I don't see Jamie being THAT easy going about it at all, but I do see him listening carefully to what both John and Claire have to say about it. There will be a tense scene with each of them and the scene with Claire will end with an awesomely steamy sex scene where he reasserts just who belongs in her bed :)

Well and I also see that this will alter the relationships between the three of them, particularly Jamie and John.

Just, I see a lot of other readers saying that Jamie is going to 'kick his ass'. And beyond a punch in anger perhaps in the beginning, I don't really see that happening. It doesn't feel like Jamie's character.

Nah, he's not going to leave the man a cripple. Might punch him out of sheer instinct, but no permanent damage. What I actually really liked about that whole Mrs. Lord John Grey freakshow was that LJG and Claire became friends. They started out liking each other before they knew who the other was (Voyager) and then resenting the crap out of each other. Very elaborate and convoluted way to bond, but there you have it.

Wendy F wrote: "Well and I also see that this will alter the relationships between the three of them, particularly Jamie and John.

Just, I see a lot of other readers saying that Jamie is going to 'kick his ass'..."

Exactly, it's just not Jamie to not hear what someone dear to him is saying. I DO think he'll punch a time or three, but then he'll help John up and go forward from there.

the other courtney wrote: "Nah, he's not going to leave the man a cripple. Might punch him out of sheer instinct, but no permanent damage. What I actually really liked about that whole Mrs. Lord John Grey freakshow was that ..."

Exactly, the resulting true friendship is the point, I think.

Yeeesss... but I have a feeling the friendship with LJG is now strained - for both Jamie and Claire.

Claire, because she's feeling guilty for believing Jamie was dead and doing what she did (even if she had good reason).

Jamie, 'cuz LJG put his hands and more on Claire PLUS the whole "we were f*-ing you" comment. That's bound to bring up Black Jack Randall and that horrid moment when LJG first hit on Jamie; while Jamie is Jamie, he's human. And I think it'll take awhile for that to mend.

Not to mention from the Daily Lines from MOBY, it looks like Jamie puts LJG in a situation where he either turns LJG in or abandons him and LJG is found by the Revolutionaries. Which, I'd imagine, wouldn't make LJG so fond of Jamie - at least for awhile.

Weeelllll... If Roger can forgive being accidentally handed over to the Mohawk (I mean, is there a Hallmark card for that?!) I think anything is possible!

the other courtney wrote: "Weeelllll... If Roger can forgive being accidentally handed over to the Mohawk (I mean, is there a Hallmark card for that?!) I think anything is possible!"

Lol!!!

the other courtney wrote: "Weeelllll... If Roger can forgive being accidentally handed over to the Mohawk (I mean, is there a Hallmark card for that?!) I think anything is possible!"

That scene was one where I didn't like Jaime for awhile. I thought it was so harsh not even letting him speak. If he had things would have been a whole lot different because he knew that Jaime was aware of the time traveling. Shoulda, woulda, coulda.

I don't read the daily lines, I stopped a while ago. It was too many spoilers for me.

I'm not sure yet I believe that Jamie would turn him in.

I think Claire and John will have an awkward relationship from now on...they'd barely had a friendship before, built a sweet one in those few scenes and now Jamie is back. Jamie, however, is another story when it comes to John.

I don't believe Jamie will turn John in...something will happen. Jamie is loyal even when it's tough if he feels someone deserves that loyalty--John does have his loyalty for several reasons but namely William. That's a deep, deep debt in Jamie's eyes, I think.

I love the Daily Lines, they're like hooks n lines n we're just waiting for the book to get the sinker lol.

I don't read daily lines every day. But I've picked up a few again lately, which is why I surmised. But yeah, I don't want to feel as if I've already read the book before it's even out.

I won't let myself read the daily lines that have to do with Jamie and LJ. I want to be surprised by how that works itself out. As mentioned, Jamie has loyalty to LJ due to his son so you know somehow he will likely come to terms with what happened, but there is bound to be some roundabout before that happens. As for Claire, he loves her so much that he will definitely forgive her, although he will never forget. I do feel that LJ took advantage of Claire while she was weak and not thinking clearly due to his passion for Jamie. He knew that her body was the closest he would ever get to a physical relationship with Jamie and since LJ knows that Jamie and Claire had a very physical relationship, she is the Jamie substitute since he will have been where Jamie had also been, if you know what I mean.

I also agree that we are bound to see some super steamy hot sex as Jamie reasserts himself to Claire as her one and only. Can't wait! :-)

Joanna wrote: "I won't let myself read the daily lines that have to do with Jamie and LJ. I want to be surprised by how that works itself out. As mentioned, Jamie has loyalty to LJ due to his son so you know s..."

I agree with you to a point. I think they both took advantage of the situation. My feeling is if Claire was sober at the time (and we know she wasn't)she wouldn't have done what she did. In desperate times, people will act on impulse and I think that's what this was. Both missed Jamie terribly and this was their way of dealing with it. The mind and emotions do strange things to people.

I think in her mind there was more of a finality then (with LJG) than before, with Frank. Yes, it was 200 yrs later, but Jaime was still "alive"... At least when she left him. And it was mentioned that it was a difficult pregnancy so sexytimes weren't an option - nor did Frank make any overtures until that scene in the nursery. When Jaime was thought dead, it was an actual, real death.

I understand why Claire did what she did with LJ. Claire mentions in one of the books how she knows that Jamie sometimes plies her with some extra wine because he knows how she gets a bit "freer" after drinking. She had been drinking to excess in her despair as was LJ. Drink often makes people do things they probably wouldn't do otherwise and it's pretty likely that she probably wouldn't have chosen to sleep with LJ if she had been sober. However, she and Jamie had such a passionate and physical relationship that his sudden loss would be a huge loss to her, not just relationship-wise but physically as well. Plus, while mentally she was a woman from the 20th century, at that time she was a woman in the 1700s. Marriage was what gave a woman security in those times and sometimes you just do what you have to do. If something like this had to happen, at least it was LJ, someone who had been involved in their lives for a long time and loves Jamie, and not someone else.

I have asked this on other groups but wondered...has anyone tried to make notes And follow the book on maps of the times? I have been trying to find reference books with maps of this time period related to either the war or just the ra and can not find them.

Kukeith, I have two maps taped to the back of my book of Echo (inside) of Battle of Fort Ticonderoga and Battle of Bennington. I just searched for those two battles and got the pictures.

There is a lot of talk about the LJG and Claire scene so far. A scene I love because it's one of the more emotional and powerful scenes I've ever read next to the Voyager reunion. I went absolutely, for lack of a better term, ape shit when I read it.
I think ape shit best describes my demeanor because I basically lost all knowledge of human vernacular and preceded to jump up and down and make high pitched grunting noises. I refrained from throwing piles of feces or dragging my knuckles on the carpet.

But I digress... A few of my favorite scenes in this book are pretty awesome in themselves.

(view spoiler)[The scene when William kills Arch Bug was a BIG scene for me! It was insane! Ian comes running in to see Arch holding Rachel at his mercy. Did anyone else squee or swoon when Ian said in a quote conversational tone, "Ye'll fucking kill me first." Then William burst in at the last minute! AHHHHHH! (hide spoiler)]

Now my MOST favorite scene in An Echo In The Bone. (view spoiler)[It's the scene is when William basically gets thrown into a Darth Jamie scene from Star Wars! I can feel his world turning upside down when he says, "And who- who the bloody hell am I?" (hide spoiler)]

YES! I agree with you completely, about all three points!

(view spoiler)[That scene with William and Arch Bug! It was such an intense scene because The Bugs were such a mainstay by that point. I was both, excited and a bit sad at the same time!

And Will's finding out the truth about Jamie... suffice to say that the next book will certainly be very interesting (hide spoiler)].

Lilly, I love that. (view spoiler)[Willie, I am your father (hide spoiler)] I was SO wanting that to happen so bad. I am glad it did finally. And Jamie's reaction to the LJ confession. UGH, I hate having to wait to see what else happens.

Carolyn F. wrote: "Unlike a lot of people, I loved that scene too Dana. [spoilers removed]"

Whoa what?! Claire gave John a handjob?! How did I miss this while reading?! Clearly, I need to re-read the series. Talking with you ladies is showing me that it's been too long since I've read these.

At least that's an excuse for re-reading it!

who needs an excuse! :)

Alanna wrote: "Whoa what?! Claire gave John a handjob?! How did I miss this while reading?! Clearly, I need to re-read ..."

*dies* Honey, if you forgot that scene then I agree! You defiantly need to reread! LOL I have to admit though, we were all pretty distracted by the simple fact...

(view spoiler)[Jamie is supposed to be dead at this point in the story. Regardless of the fact that you and I, as the reader, believed he could be or most likely is still alive. I mainly took it as faith that DG's vision of the story would not let Jamie go out like that. Not after all he had survived.
DG had my full attention focused the fact that LJG had the correct news of the ship Jamie was supposed to be on. So for several pages I was in some shock until DG took pity on us and we found out he missed the damn boat! (hide spoiler)]

Holy moly. Just finished the audio of Echo. Having not held a tangible book in my hand as I was "reading" it, I didn't know the end was so close at hand. So when it ended, I was taken aback. There were many loose ends left dangling, unlike its predecessors. I'm glad I only have a month to wait for the next one. I'm going to read it super-slowly because I'm forlorn at not having more Claire & Jamie at hand. And yes, while I will most definitely re-read the series, your first time is always so memorable.

Been driving around on my daily rounds, feeling forlorn that I am current on the Outlander series and no longer have Davina Porter's fabulous narration and DG's wondrous tales accompanying me in the car. I want to start in the LJG books, but the narrator is different and I've heard some fans say it's hard to transition from Davina's version of Jamie and the male narrator's version. Ironically, feeling like swtiching narrators would be akin to Claire and LJ's new relationship...too soon.

One of the most poignant moments in the book: when Jenny shows Young Ian the stone she and Ian made for Iseabail.

The next book is out in June I think :)

Is anyone else reading/listening to An Echo in the Bone before Written in My Own Heart's Blood comes out? Anyone up for a buddy read?

I wish You'd asked a month ago! I just got done my first listen. :(
Although, I could read since I haven't done that yet.

I think I would be up to it but not sure if I would finish before the next book comes out. The school year is winding down which means I have a lot on my plate until June 12th. These books are so long you cant just knock them out.