The History Book Club discussion

Hello Everyone,

This is the Week Nineteen thread for the next Presidential Series selection (My Life).

For those of you still acquiring the book, be advised that some folks have run into the problem of the book being now divided into two volumes. We will be reading and discussing the entire work so you will need to get both volumes (Volume I and Volume II). For those of you like myself who have the original hardcopy, that will not be necessary because the hardcopy was just one big book.

The week's reading assignment is:

Week Nineteen - Ocotber 17th - October 23rd -> Chapters FIFTY-ONE, and FIFTY-TWO p. 839 - 864


We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we did for other spotlighted books.

This book was kicked off on June 13th. We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Borders and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, or on your Kindle.

There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to begin reading this selection and/or to post.

Bryan Craig will be your moderator for this selection as he is our lead for all Presidential selections. We hope you enjoy Week Nineteen of this discussion.

Welcome,

~Bryan

TO ALWAYS SEE ALL WEEKS' THREADS SELECT VIEW ALL

Bill Clinton

Once the House voted for impeachment, Chief Justice Rehnquist opened the trial in the Senate. The House managers argued that they already proven the charges meet constitutional charges, and they want to call witnesses. Clinton's team, run by White House Counsel Chuck Ruff, responded the charges did not meet the standard and the specific charges were weak. Clinton delivered his State of the Union speech focusing on social security and education reforms. The trial lasted three weeks, but the Republicans did not have enough votes for impeachment. Personally, Clinton got support from his family, his staff, and cabinet. In February, King Hussein died and Clinton went to his funeral.

In chapter 52, the Columbine school shooting occurred, Treasury Secretary Rubin retires and Larry Summers stepped in. McDougal was finally released, but Starr went after Julie Hiatt Steele, but he lost the trial. The Republicans lost the impeachment vote and Clinton argued that they remained bitter over it as the 2000 presidential election began. Gore ran for president against George W. Bush, and Hillary started her New York Senate campaign. In foreign matters, the dominant issue was Kosovo. NATO began 11 weeks of air strikes in Serbia in an effort to get Serbian forces out of Kosovo. By May, 40,000 NATO troops would go into Kosovo to keep the peace. Most of the reconstruction would be in the hands of Europe. In Germany, there was the G-8 Summit where they passed debt relief for poor countries so those countries could take that money and put into domestic policy efforts.

Here is an interesting article on looking back at the Clinton impeachment:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/0...

The questions asked at the end are interesting to ponder. How would our future in 2000 and beyond look if Clinton was indeed impeached?

Simran wrote: "One of my thoughts while reading this bit was, finally, finally they've decided to get serious with the air strikes."

Me, too. I wonder if part of the problem was with NATO. NATO went under a lot of change when they brought in the Eastern European countries. I guess the other part is that Europe was timid to move in...

Simran wrote: "I think it would have looked seriously skewed towards the Far Right; both in domestic & foreign policy.

Indeed. It truly would have made it impossible for Gore and other Democrats to win anything.

Here is some information on Henry Flipper:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Os...

NATO bombing in the old Yugoslavia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_NAT...

Bombing of Chinese Embassy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._bom...

Columbine shooting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbin...

Clinton called Rubin the best Treasury Secretary since Alexander Hamilton. Do you agree?

Julie Hiatt Steele case:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/...

It is interesting to read about Clinton's discussion on how precise bombs reduce civilian casualties, and John Keegan saying it was a turning point in warfare.

Do you agree that this campaign started a new chapter in military history?

Bryan wrote: "Simran wrote: "One of my thoughts while reading this bit was, finally, finally they've decided to get serious with the air strikes."

Me, too. I wonder if part of the problem was with NATO. NATO ..."

So I would make a couple of comments. I am pretty sure this was the first time that NATO acted militarily in Europe. (I am not even sure as NATO - not UN - they ever acted offensively militarily before) - so it was a big deal - and due to what I believe were constitutional issues the Germans, one of the big ground force NATO players, could not participate.
It was also the first time that "young" Europeans - in their 30s and such, saw a war that was described by one of them to me as "less than a days drive away" from him - and he was in Belgium.
I think it was a big change for the posture of NATO from the decades long "role" of defender against Russia the USSR - the first time the new role was realized.

Just my view

Bryan wrote: "Clinton called Rubin the best Treasury Secretary since Alexander Hamilton. Do you agree?"

When I read that I thought "kudos to Rubin" - what an impressive thing to be said about him by Clinton.
This was only diluted by the fact that the guy who annointed him such, Bill Clinton, then chose (on the same page)Larry Summers to succeed him.

I am really sorry that I am so far behind and I cannot keep up with you all in "real time"

I note that Asa Hutchinson and Ken Starr are two guys nothing good is said about - that is an almost unique place to be in the cast of characters in this book.

Also (pg 842) I notice the talk of what to do with the budget surplus. What a big change since then. I am fearful that we may wait a long time to have a leader again who can bring us to prosperity and a workable budget.

On pg 846 Clinton talks about reading the Bible and other works on forgiveness for 2 -3 hours. So I believe that he probably did it - I assume he, like my daughter and as he said earlier in the book, has the "gift of faith".............. I don't and I am a bit curious if any of my fellow travelers thru this book want to comment on that.

His reference to "he who is without sin........" is appropriate and I would like to see it applied to our current government too.

The letter from Bill Ziff, the father of a friend of his, is interesting too. I can get no real response to anything sent to our current president - I do not believe it is possible to send a "personal message" to the White House today and have any slight hope even a key aide will know it came. The computer age is not cool. One cannot easily even send a fax to the White House to be separate from all the e-mails that must first be classified before they will accept them so they can be filed away in the appropriate "file" without being read. (I will not go to New Hampshire, or anywhere else again, for Obama)

In chapter 52 I see a fault for Mr. Clinton - the continuing search to get Chinese business opportunity by all Westerners meant that the Clinton team felt that they could/would ignore the threats to intellectual property to get China into the WTO. Today the Chinese ship us substandard structural tubing, car tires, drywall etc. - He succumbed where others did too but it was a failure in my opinion.

The carrying out of the Kosovo action with such a limitation of US causalities and with a worthy and defined goal, unlike the initiation of Iraq 2, was a real success. My son flew in the operation, Marine helicopter pilot (cargo), and we knew why he faced the risk and, as he had chosen Marines, it was acceptable - I am so glad he was never sent to Iraq.

My last comment is about Ken Starr and his prosecutions of innocent people (pg 857 in part) and I think of the personal anguish these people must have gone thru as their freedom was curtailed or in jeopardy and as their personal assets were whittled away by this jerk acting, unfortunately, with the sanction of our government seemingly on our behalf.

Vince wrote: "Bryan wrote: "Simran wrote: "One of my thoughts while reading this bit was, finally, finally they've decided to get serious with the air strikes."

Me, too. I wonder if part of the problem was wit..."

I agree Vince, this was probably NATO's first real operation and I think it gave them a little shock moving forward. The U.S. now expects NATO to help out, beyond Europe, and the European countries are not forking over the money to do it.

Vince wrote: "Bryan wrote: "Clinton called Rubin the best Treasury Secretary since Alexander Hamilton. Do you agree?"

When I read that I thought "kudos to Rubin" - what an impressive thing to be said about him..."

LOL, the second term is tough and many Cabinet and White House staffers leave after one term. I think it is harder to fill Rubin's shoes after that.

Vince wrote: "I am really sorry that I am so far behind and I cannot keep up with you all in "real time"

I note that Asa Hutchinson and Ken Starr are two guys nothing good is said about - that is an almost uniq..."

Great comments, Vince, thank you.

From his book, you do sense he has the gift of faith; he grew up in a church and pretty strong faith. I get the sense it wained sometimes in his life as he struggled, but it probably was a piece of his foundation, so to speak.

Ken, Ken, Ken. I don't know what happened. At first, he promised to complete his investigation and move on, but he kept after it and there are arguments to be made he went too far. Heck, the independent counsel law was not renewed.

Thanks again for your comments and I hope you enjoyed the book.