Transgressive Fiction discussion

Hi All, I'm new to the Group. I've loved this type of fiction for years but only discovered the term transgressive when I stumbled on this group today! Anyway, I was looking at a site, helium.com and they listed the Top 5 Transgressive books as:

5. American Psycho
4. Lolita
3.Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas
2. Fight Club
1. Anything by Hubert Selby Jr.

I have read 5 to 2, but nothing by HSJr. Any recommendations where I should start?

BTW, my Top 5 are:

5. Crash
4. Catch-22
3. A Clockwork Orange
2. 1984
1. Fight Club

Hope this group is active, as I said..I love this genre!

Let's shake this group up Redroc! :-)

I have never heard of Hubert Selby Jr, but then realized he wrote the book Requiem for a Dream, which the movie was based on.

I've read everything on both lists. Catch-22 is probably my number one. Hubert Selby Jr was a fantastic writer, Last Exit to Brooklyn is a brilliant read. Fight Club always makes these lists, I think due in large part to the film - of Palahniuk's books, Invisible Monsters is the better read, IMO.

I've read a few of Chuck's but not gotten around to Invisable Monsters yet. Also need to read Survivor & Haunted.

Redroc wrote: "I've read a few of Chuck's but not gotten around to Invisable Monsters yet. Also need to read Survivor & Haunted."

I'd rate Survivor over Haunted. Actually the first of Chuck's books I read.

I am ashamed to admit I haven't read anything by Palahniuk yet. Where should I begin?

Gertie wrote: "I am ashamed to admit I haven't read anything by Palahniuk yet. Where should I begin?"

I'd recommend Invisible Monsters.

Thanks Paul. Well Redroc, we may have to read Invisible Monsters simultaneously. :-P

Gertie wrote: "Thanks Paul. Well Redroc, we may have to read Invisible Monsters simultaneously. :-P"

Ha Ha OK, this could be the smallest group read ever, unless you want to read it again Paul??? I was going to read American Psycho, but Invisible Monsters it is (After geek Love, which..I love!) But keep clear of Snuff and Pygmy. Both were dross (IMHO!)

Oh sorry I wasn't suggesting reading it right now! I am too overwhelmed at the moment with moving etc. Not too busy to blather on Goodreads though of course. But it might be fun to do a group read of this, unfortunately the moderator hasn't been on since December last year. But maybe we could message him at some point and ask him to send out a potential group read email to the group? Might be worth a shot, this group is practically dead.

"dross"... I am going to have to look that one up... :-)

Gertie wrote: "Oh sorry I wasn't suggesting reading it right now!i>

Ha ha, no worries! If I could read a book a day I would still be struggling to keep up with my TBR!

Dross - dross/drôs/Noun: 1.Something regarded as worthless; rubbish

(God I hope Chuck doesn't read this! If he does - I love Fight Club & Rant!!!)

Redroc wrote: "Gertie wrote: "Oh sorry I wasn't suggesting reading it right now!i>

Ha ha, no worries! If I could read a book a day I would still be struggling to keep up with my TBR!

Dross - dross/drôs/Nou..."


Re. Pygmy and Snuff ... you're not alone!

I've just swapped Pygmy for
Dermaphoria on read it swap it. I feel guilty, perhaps I should have included a letter of apology!

I first saw the film Crash years before I read the book, then read the book...then watched the film again.

It’s like most adaptations in that there is a lot, but not all of the book in the film. Cronenberg does however make it his own, it has a peculiar mood and a pace which adds to the weirdness.

Like all good transgressive fiction, the book is written in such a way that it is easy to accept that the weird ideas/actions of the protagonist are quite normal.

Wikipedia has written that Gravity's Rainbow is transgressive. I've never read the whole thing, but I'd vote that for numero uno - just based on Pynchon's incredibly specialized writing style.

Some of Don DeLillo's books are transgressive - like Great Jones Street, Libra, Mao II.

Lolita has to be up there. It was a mega bestseller back when it was published. Its still controversial and studied in American Lit. classes all over, and Vladimir Nabokov is quite possibly one of the top ten best novelists of all time.

Naked Lunch by Burroughs is kinda fun. Its influence can be felt in just about every genre today.

I don't know about Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas...It may not count as transgressive fiction because most of that story actually happened.

Personally, I don't care much for A Clockwork Orange. The Wanting Seed is actually a far superior novel. Clockwork is only popular because of the Kubrick film.

I don't really care for Fight Club either. It has some fun tropes, and its definitely transgressive. I think Fight Club is a good book for people who don't like to read. Its a good book to read while on the toilet.

I'm a fan of Crash. Ballard had a lot to say about the human connection to technology. There's a lot of hidden meanings, symbolism, motifs, and allusions that would easily go over the head of most readers. Its a book that's better read four or five times.

Does Infinite Jest count? I don't know if it does because Wallace satirized the typical amoral message of most transgressive fiction and if he were still alive, he'd probably be against the label. The reason I brought it up is because there's a lot of drug abuse going on through the book and it's insanely well-written. Transgressive?

I liked American Psycho. BEE is one of the better social commentators/critics of this generation. He's just ruthlessly hilarious. AP is actually still ubiquitous with the condition of America today and all that jazz going down on WS.

Catch 22 is a good mention.

What about The Stranger by Albert Camus?

Trainspotting is pretty good. Actually, I'd rate Irvine Welsh as an - overall - better writer than Palahniuk.

What about A Scanner Darkly by Philip K. Dick?

What about any of the works of Will Self. He's brilliant.

Number 1 is pretty clear: I love Rant, the first book from Palahniuk i read.

And Haunted, but really i like almost all of his books more or less (couldn't really get warm with Diary und Survivor).
Also really great in a special way is John dies at the End by David Wong, i had such a fun reading it, so crazy.
Also 1984 will always be one of my favorites, because it's so creepy how muich reality there is in it...

And at the end: The books from a german writer, Dirk Bernemann, who brought me to transgressive fiction. Ich hab die Unschuld kotzen sehn (translation would be "I saw virginity puke"), where he criticizes german society a lot.

Michaela wrote: "Number 1 is pretty clear: I love Rant, the first book from Palahniuk i read.

And Haunted, but really i like almost all of his books more or less (couldn't really get warm wi..."

Got to have some Palahniuk in any best transgressive fiction list. I am currently reading Doomed. Will get around to reading Rant at some point. It sounds like you have read a lot of his books Michaela.

I just really really like his style, how every book has something unique (Haunted w


I still have to read Choke and Doomed but i think then i got all of them :D
A little sad cause i didn't really like Damned as much as his older books so i'm a bit sceptical about reading Doomed...

It seems you are not alone in not being a big fan of Damned. It is certainly tamer than his other books, at least the ones I've read. Personally I liked it and am quite enjoying Doomed. I've got a fair bit of catching up to do, Doomed is my 5th. Hopefully Palahniuk will write some more of his older style books for you soon. Fight Club is my favourite to date.

Yeah Fight Club was great :) I just regretted a bit that i saw the film first so i couldn't really enjoy the twist. But i totally love the book ending.

I will give Doomed a try sometime, after Choked, even if it's just to have read all his books :D

Sounds like a good plan.

I have read 2 books by Palahniuk Haunted and Fight Club.

I really liked Fight Club, even though I had seen the movie first the plot twist is done so well in the book I couldn't help but give a little cheer when it happened.

Haunted is like a rollercoaster at times, story plods along and suddenly things get really violent and gross which is great fun. I also love reading all the reviews from people who hated it and gave up after a few pages. hehe

I have read Factotum by Bukowski which is one of my fav books, First time I had heard of him was listening to a song by Modest Mouse called Bukowski, so I got a copy of a biography on him and thought he was crazy so tried out one of his books, gonna read post office next I think.

Currently reading John Dies a the end, which is just silliness but entertaining enough.

I think you will like Post Office Felcherman, it is my favourite Bukowski book to date.

I am currently reading Henry Miller's Tropic of Cancer, would that be considered transgressive fiction? Certainly feels like it should be

Felcherman wrote: "I am currently reading Henry Miller's Tropic of Cancer, would that be considered transgressive fiction? Certainly feels like it should be"

I would say yes, but the definition of "transgressive fiction" is so loose, that it seems like it accommodates a great many types of books and authors. Miller is by no means a stretch.

Felcherman wrote: "I am currently reading Henry Miller's Tropic of Cancer, would that be considered transgressive fiction? Certainly feels like it should be"

How are you enjoying Tropic of Cancer so far?

Guy wrote:How are you enjoying Tropic of Cancer ..."

It was not what I was expecting, I remember reading that Bukowski admired this guy and was thinking it might have been similar.

Henry seems to have a bit of a problem keeping focused on what he is writing about, he was having a rant then stopped to say the phone rang. I have laughed quite a few times so am enjoying it.

I read somewhere that he refuses to go and correct any mistakes or edit stuff that shouldn't be in there.

The main character does remind me of the kid in catcher in the rye, dislikes his friends and thinks he is superior to everyone.

Sounds intriguing, will add it to my to-read list.

cheers mike. will give the second book a go if i get on ok with this one.

I finished John Dies at the End, funniest book I have read in a while, I would recommend having a read of this one, especially if you suffer from a very strange sense of humour.

Some of the stuff is controversial but not sure if it should be included in this group.

Yay :) The sequel is also hilarious just not as perfect as John dies, But i can recommend to read it too :) This Book is full of Spiders!

Hi Michaela, I have already been given orders by a mate to red the sequel, unfortunately my local book shop didn't have the book in stock so I came away with the tropic of cancer instead. Hopefully they will have it next time.

I'll add John Dies to my to-read list. It sounds very amusing if rather ridiculous. I am reading Palahniuk's latest effort, Doomed, alongside Frankenstein at the moment.

I just started Lolita and i already love the writing. It's so intense and creepy how playfully he describes everything, even the things that are sick when thinking about them.

Michaela wrote: "I just started Lolita and i already love the writing. It's so intense and creepy how playfully he describes everything, even the things that are sick when thinking about them."

Lolita is beautifully written. Nabokov would surely never have gotten away with such a controversial subject matter if it hadn't of been.

Lolita is on my to read list might start it after crime and punishment is finished.

It's a good one Felcherman. On another subject, have you seen the film Barfly (about Bukowski, starring Mikey Rourke)? I was thinking of watching it.

yes I have seen it, really good film, Mikey Rourke plays the character just how I pictured a younger Bukowski to be.

Keep your eye out for a cameo by Bukowski...

Sounds promising, I'll watch it later. Will keep a look out for Bukowski's cameo. Thanks.

The Enchanter sounds intriguing. I'll add it to my to-read list.

sounds enchanting. added it to my read list too

Felcherman wrote: "sounds enchanting. added it to my read list too"

Barfly was entertaining! Mikey Rourke made a good Bukowski even though they look nothing like each other. I thought the film really captured the low-life aspect of Bukowski's existence, what with the seedy bars and grotty apartments.

And the fighting, bukowski loved a good brawl. I think I liked it so much because I watched the movie after reading the biography.

Perhaps it was playing Bukowski in Barfly that inspired Mikey Rourke to become a professional boxer. He had eight fights I seem to remember before returning to acting. I'll definitely read the Bukowski biography at some point.

Clown Girl by monica drake is pretty damn good. I saw her read with chuck Palahniuk a few weeks ago in Seattle. She had a pretty damn good short story as well. Chuck read another story that was about as gross as guts which he included in Haunted. He will be coming out with a new book in October called Beautiful You which is supposed to be pretty raunchy. Love me anything by bukowski and Vonnegut.

randi wrote: "Clown Girl by monica drake is pretty damn good. I saw her read with chuck Palahniuk a few weeks ago in Seattle. She had a pretty damn good short story as well. Chuck read another story that was abo..."

I'll add Clown Girl to my to-read list Randi. Yet to read any Vonnegut! Must change that soon.

Thanks for the heads up on clown girl, looks good. Want to read something by Vonnegut but haven't decided on where to start, was thinking of cats cradle, I'm sure I have had that recommended to me in the past

I started with his autobiography "a man without a country"

Seems like a good place to start, I began with a biography of Bukowski and it helped to know what sort of guy he was before starting his books.

also, William S. Burroughs, Junky was amazing and anything else he wrote is literary gold in my opinion.