The History Book Club discussion

This is a memoir of the steamboat era on the Mississippi River before the American Civil War by Mark Twain, published in 1883. The book begins with a brief history of the river from its discovery by Hernando de Soto in 1541. Chapters 4-22 describe Twain's career as a Mississippi steamboat pilot, the fulfillment of a childhood dream. The second half of Life on the Mississippi tells of Twain's return, many years after, to travel the river from St. Louis to New Orleans. By then the competition from railroads had made steamboats passe, in spite of improvements in navigation and boat construction. Twain sees new, large cities on the river, and records his observations on greed, gullibility, tragedy, and bad architecture." About the Author Mark Twain, born Samuel Langhorne Clemens in 1835, led one of the most exciting of literary lives. Raised in the river town of Hannibal, Missouri, Twain had to leave school at age 12 and was successively a journeyman printer, a steamboat pilot, a halfhearted Confederate soldier, and a prospector, miner, and reporter in the western territories. His experiences furnished him with a wide knowledge of humanity, as well as with the perfect grasp of local customs and speech which manifests itself in his writing. With the publication in 1865 of The Celebrated Jumping Frog of Calaveras County, Twain gained national attention as a frontier humorist, and the bestselling Innocents Abroad solidified his fame. But it wasn't until Life on the Mississippi (1883), and finally, The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn (1885), that he was recognized by the literary establishment as one of the greatest writers America would ever produce.

Hello,

During the week of Oct 24 - Oct 31, we are reading Chapter 1 - Chapter 5 (pp 1 - 34)

Remember, these weekly non spoiler threads are just that - non spoiler. There are many other threads where "spoiler information" can be placed including the glossary and any of the other supplemental threads.

We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we have done for other spotlighted reads.

This is the kick-off thread. We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, on iTunes for the ipad, etc. However, be careful, some audible formats are abridged and not unabridged.

There is still time remaining to obtain the book and get started. There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to get started and/or to post.

Welcome,

Alisa


This is a link to the complete table of contents and syllabus thread:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/6...

TO SEE ALL WEEK'S THREADS SELECT VIEW ALL

Remember this is a non spoiler thread.

by Mark Twain

In the first chapter we are introduced to the history of the Mississippi River, which Twain characterizes as 'remarkable.' DeSoto was the first white man to see the river, followed by a lapse of 130 years before further significant exploration by LaSalle. Explorers traveled the river in canoes, and with large contingents of priests as part of the exploration party. There are descriptions of catfish measuring 6 feet long, buffalo roaming the plains near the banks, and very little population at least through the late 1600's. Explorers encountered various Indian tribes, which seemed to be relatively peaceful. Early commerce involved rafts and it could take 9 months to travel the river to deliver goods in New Orleans. Once the advent of the steamboat arrived, life in a river town changed instantly. He rememebers as a young boy wanting to pilot a steamboat.

In Chapter 3 (Frescos from the Past), Twain incorporates a lengthy chapter from The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn* for the purpose of "illustrating keelboat talk and manners, and that now departed and hardly remembered raft life". The chapter is about Huck Finn creeping aboard a raft to eavesdrop on a conversation between a group of men who are keeping watch. That seemed a bit odd to me that Twain would include such a long excerpt from another one of his books.

by Mark Twain

Steve I thought it odd to and got distracted by it. Once I got into it he seemed to use it as a way to describe what a young boy's experience might be along the river. Do you think he was drawing parallels intentionally?

Thanks to both Alisa and Bryan for getting this off the ground while I have been out of pocket and without wi fi access; traveling professionally and away from my home base.

I like the visuals he gives of the river. The places where it has moved, the power of the river where it intersects with some of the tributaries, the sloping banks, and the explorers standing on the edge of the river taking it all in. Can you imagine how it looked hundreds of years ago before population or the advent of the riverboat?

Alisa wrote: "Can you imagine how it looked hundreds of years ago before population or the advent of the riverboat?

I feel like I can now, thanks to Twain's amazing descriptions of the river! He constantly gives helpful details such as the width and depth at certain points, and descriptions of all the surroundings.

I just did a little Wikipedia reading about Hernando de Soto and his expedition to the west. It's funny that de Soto stumbled upon the river and thought of it as more of an obstacle than anything else. Obviously at that time, he had no idea of the magnititude or importance of the Mississippi. It took him and his men (400 of them) a month to cross the river and continue westward into present day Arkansas, Oklahoma, and Texas.

I'll add the DeSoto and LaSalle links to the glossary. I am trying to imagine what they must have thought when they found this river, did they imagine the magnitude of what they found?

I sort of gasped at the mention of a 6 foot catfish. The thought of something that big living in the river makes you wonder about the wildlife in and around the river. Certainly at different points where the water is still or rapid makes a difference as to appropriate habitat for different species that live under the water. Are there other things in these early pages that make you think of the force of nature of the river?

Twain describes the raftsmen who traveled up and down the river before steamboats, the journey sometimes taking as long as nine months. What must they have encountered along their journey?

Alisa wrote: "What must they have encountered along their journey?"

I'm just guessing here, but I would think that two major issues would be:

1) Impassable areas of the river, where they would probably have to make their way onto land and try to find another way downstream.

2) Had the Indians already been displaced at that point? I'm guessing the earliest white Mississippi travelers probably had a lot of conflict with Indians who were trying to defend their territory.

One of my strongest impressions so far (having only read his fiction in the past) is Twain's ability to bring the descriptions to life. I can certainly see how he'd appeal on the lecture circuit. The candor of some of his attitudes is a real delight as well. In fact I believe he makes a comment about the displacement of first nations that struck me as surprisingly 21st century.

Jim he does seem to paint a good visual in these early pages. It should be interesting to see how this plays out in the rest of the book. The river itself lends itself to this. I am sure we are in for quite a treat!

I have not read much of his fiction, but my impression is that he strikes a folksy tone. He is quoted frequently, and that is my observation at least.

It is odd how Twain describes the Mississippi and it's changing tributaries. One wonders if when Twain was writing this book whether there was a tributary from the Delaware River or its watershed. The story of a hypothetical man being moved by the changing Mississippi from the boundaries of Missouri to Illinois making him a freeman made me think that this could be possible. The Mississippi was never known to me as the largest river - the Nile, Amazon and Yangtze had those honors. However, it seems that Twain is including the tributary and watershed systems as well. You can tell that Twain loved this river and in his mind this river was the best of the best.

You can see that Twain does not disappoint us with his personal musings"

Louis XIV - mentioned of "inflated memory"

Catfish - 6 feet and 250 pounds (cannot even imagine that)

De Soto traveling with 24 priests references as well as other religious tidbits - showed some of Twain's distain of religion at this point in his life or the later tidbit about appealing to the Virgin for help and the resulting feast.

Descriptions of the explorers and how the Indians were used for their purposes in terms of trading, etc.

Or the "priest consecrating the robbery with a hymn" referring to robbing the Indians of their land, etc.

Yes, for sure...I found myself smiling at the references - but you have to be quick - because he blends them in so aptly with the story and keeps moving along....(just like the Mississippi).

Good point, Simran. I think he wants to give us an image of the life of those who make their living off the river and he certainly adds an element of charm to it.

Bentley, yeah that six foot catfish image is alarming. He may well be taking literary license but then again, although rare, they can grow to be that long. What made me laugh was the reference to it jumping! He does have a subtle humor.

Yes you have to wonder where else he takes liberties with his humor but you have to laugh and at least smile nonetheless.

Awesome! Always great to have a book that holds its pace and keeps the reader engaged.

Current catfish record in Louisiana is 98 lbs. Caught in 1987. In by Lee Sandlin He makes the point that for most of the time, the only way to travel was by the river. The land was not passable due to tree, brush and swamps. Towns were only connected by the river. Upriver of New Orleans the river is 300 ft deep in a few spots. When the river flow is low, the city has to worry about sea water coming upriver under the fresh water and getting into the drinking water intakes. What shocked me was swimming in the river. That was a certain death sentence where I used to live upstream of New Orleans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mis... map showing the drainage basin of the Mississippi. I guess we have to think the Delaware claim is just part of Twain being a rip roaring river-man just like his characters on the raft.

Patricrk wrote: "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mis... map showing the drainage basin of the Mississippi. I guess we have to think the Delaware claim is just part of Twain being a rip roari..."
I think that is right, Patricrk. I posted a map of the Mississippi tributaries on the glossary thread and have looked at a few others. I don't see any connection to the Delaware, nor the possibility.

I'm getting a real kick out of the dialect and turns of phrase of the pilots, etc. I keep imagining Twain reading each of the chapters as an after dinner speech.

Patricrk wrote: "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mis... map showing the drainage basin of the Mississippi. I guess we have to think the Delaware claim is just part of Twain being a rip roari..."

Probably true or very much like The Celebrated Jumping Frog of Calaveras County or in this case a jumping catfish! (smile)



Mark Twain

Patricrk wrote: "Current catfish record in Louisiana is 98 lbs. Caught in 1987. In by [author:Lee Sandlin|40..."

It's hard to imagine anyone in their right mind jumping into the Mississippi River willingly and expecting to live. The currents, the debris, the stuff that slithers under the surface, any of it can kill you!

I think what we get from the author is more romanticism and less realism. Then again, it is realism through his eyes, no?

Like Simran, I enjoyed the piece from Huck Finn and the story of the dead baby in the haunted barrel. There is an aspect to this writing of the 'Tall Tale', which is in the American vein but is now nearly gone from our culture. Here's this old coot on the river, Mr.'Sudden Death' and 'General Desolation', talking about mastering 19 alligators and a bushel of rattlesnakes, then we get this on his family tree... 'half-brother to cholera, nearly related to small-pox on my mother's side'....love this stuff!

Steve wrote: "In Chapter 3 (Frescos from the Past), Twain incorporates a lengthy chapter from The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn* for the purpose of "illustrating keelboat talk and manners, and that ..."

I think it was when I read one of the footnotes explained that, like Dickens, Twain was paid by the word. In Rouging it he'd "quote" entire articles by other people. Here, Twain's a little wiser and is selling a book he has been "working on by fits and starts, during the past five or six years, and may possibly finish in the course of five or six more." This way he'll get paid twice: once for Life on the Mississippi and again for the novel he's previewing.

Shannon wrote: "Steve wrote: "In Chapter 3 (Frescos from the Past), Twain incorporates a lengthy chapter from The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn* for the purpose of "illustrating keelboat talk and mann..."

A master story teller optimizing his marketing exposure before the days of the internet. Crafty!

(thanks for the book post, don't forget the author link associated with the book.)


Mark Twain

Alisa wrote: "I like the visuals he gives of the river. The places where it has moved, the power of the river where it intersects with some of the tributaries, the sloping banks, and the explorers standing on t..."

I'm a person who stops on bridges and looks over and gets totally mesmerized by the water below, so I really like the passage where the rivermen are talking about how the Ohio and Mississippi Rivers don't mix; "if you take the Mississippi on a rise when the Ohio is low, you'll find a wide band of clear water all the way down the east side of the Mississippi for a hundred mile or more, and the minute you get a quarter of a mile from shore and pass the line, it is all thick and yaller the rest of the way across."

I imagine that the confluence of the Mississippi and the Missouri must be even more dramatic. (Although I haven't been to that end of the Missouri; it might be muddy by then, too.)

It reminds me of the huge swirls in Deception Pass, or the milky Ohanapecosh, or the muddy Nisqually. Yes, even afraid of heights, I stand on high bridges and look down at the water.

Alisa wrote: "Shannon wrote: "Steve wrote: "In Chapter 3 (Frescos from the Past), Twain incorporates a lengthy chapter from The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn* for the purpose of "illustrating keelbo..."

Sorry, I wasn't sure if it was required there, due to context.

I've been to the confluence of the Missouri and Mississippi. It is pretty cool. However, I don't remember noticing a great difference in the water color. It is probably more noticeable by plane or even by boat.

Shannon wrote: "Alisa wrote: "Shannon wrote: "Steve wrote: "In Chapter 3 (Frescos from the Past), Twain incorporates a lengthy chapter from The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn* for the purpose of "illus..."

since it is referencing a work other than the one being discussed in the thread it is a good idea to include in nonetheless. thanks.

Emily wrote: "I've been to the confluence of the Missouri and Mississippi. It is pretty cool. However, I don't remember noticing a great difference in the water color. It is probably more noticeable by plane ..."

or depending on time of year, when there is more upstream runoff, storms, etc, that otherwise impact the flow. the confluence of the two rivers must be quite a sight!

Alisa wrote: (thanks for the book post, don't forget the author link associated with the book.) "

Alisa - I included the book cover and author photo and link at the bottom of my message (Message 3 in this discussion). Should everything be included right in the body of my message next time? I want to make sure I get it right. Thanks.

Steve, either way is fine, and your post #3 above is great. Thanks.

Curious to know how many folks have or have not seen it. If you have seen it the context and at what point along the river, how old you were, your memory or first impressions.

I distinctly recall the first time I saw it first flying over it on a trip to Jackson, Mississippi and a few years later seeing it from the top of the levee at night from Baton Rouge, and then from New Orleans. I was shocked that it was brown, sort of narrow, and flying over it seemed to twist all over the place. I had never seen anything like it.

What about other readers?

Alisa, I have seen it many times flying over it; but earlier this year I was in New Orleans and actually took a steamboat ride on the river. It was very relaxing actually.

However, having said that this was also the time when they were worried once again about the Mississippi cresting and there were wide swaths of sandbags (piled high and deep).

Also at this time they did a major diversion to save New Orleans from flooding another time and destroying parts of the city:

Due to deliberate water diversion at the Old River Control Structure in Louisiana, the Atchafalaya River in Louisiana is now a major distributary of the Mississippi River, with 30% of the Mississippi's flow routinely being sent to the Gulf of Mexico by this route, rather than continuing down the Mississippi's current channel past Baton Rouge and New Orleans on a longer route to the Gulf.

The above in italics is from Wikipedia.

This caused a wiping out of part of the Bayou country where the Bayou people actually lived and this was heavily criticized when I was there but there were few options available.

The section that was being flooded to save the cities was called ATCHAFALAYA.

Here is a great old article from the New Yorker (vintage 1987) which describes some of the history of that area in terms of the Mississippi River).

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/1987...

Steve wrote: "In Chapter 3 (Frescos from the Past), Twain incorporates a lengthy chapter from The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn* for the purpose of "illustrating keelboat talk and manners, and that ..."

I never would have noticed that he included an excerpt without reading this post.

The first 2 chapters really left me struggling to get through it - I was bored to tears with the descriptions of the twists and turns of the river. But once we got to the chapters about wanting to be a boat captain the pace really picked up and I am enjoying the dialogue and narrative style.

The details of where the river changes caught me a little off guard, without knowing the locations. If you think about it in the context of 'this is a river that changes course over time' and the complexity that involves it makes a little more sense. Glad you are sticking with it.

Bentley wrote: "Alisa, I have seen it many times flying over it; but earlier this year I was in New Orleans and actually took a steamboat ride on the river. It was very relaxing actually.

However, having said th..."

Isn't the Atchafalaya Basin the largest swamp in Louisiana? Incredibly rich with wildlife and Bayou channels, and the people that live along those channels. They have to periodically flood the basin but I recall that they had nt done it for quite awhile when they did it this year, and it was and still is a controversial decision. Life n that whole part of the country is subject to such geographic force, and much of it stems from the force that is the river. Really astonishing when you think about it.

When they open the spillways on the diversions it isn't an all or nothing thing. They have 200 or 300 bays that each can be opened individually. They only open enough bays to keep the water flow in the main channel below a predetermined maximum based on what the levee's can handle. I think they only opened about a third this year at the Atchafalaya diversion. There is another diversion point closer to New Orleans as well, Bonnet Carre Spillway, which puts water into Lake Pontchartrain. I've seen the Bonnet Carre spillway opened several times but only once fully open in the 30 years we lived down there. Coming from West Texas I was shocked at the size of the Mississippi when I first saw it. We were honeymooning in New Orleans 38 years ago and it was in flood. We saw a ship get spun around and carried down river and were such innocents we didn't even realize how dangerous that was to everyone.

Interesting. Until you see something like that boat spinning down the river you don't realize all the things that can happen. The first time I saw the river it looked kind of small, my point of comparison however was the Columbia River which is wide and for the most part not flat and prone to flooding like the Mississippi. I sort of wondered what all the fuss was about, until I saw the levee banks along the river and realized it wouldn't take much for the river to overflow its banks and wreak havoc. I had occassion to work in Baton Rouge and New Orleans in the early 1990s but never saw the spillways pressed into high gear. I was stunned by the complex spillways running through and around the city.

Alisa wrote: "Bentley wrote: "Alisa, I have seen it many times flying over it; but earlier this year I was in New Orleans and actually took a steamboat ride on the river. It was very relaxing actually.

Howev..."

It truly is Alisa and many Louisiana folks were upset with the decision but I imagine they considered all of the alternatives or at least we can hope they did.

i thought the 5th chapter of the 5 was really the superstar... i couldn't help but draw parallels between the romance of 'riding the river' -- including the people you'd encounter along the way -- and the romance of 'riding the rails'... i suppose it's all about restlessness and discovery -- twain goes to those themes often, and they're such a part of american literature that a chapter like the 5th would be a great vehicle for communicating how that theme is explored. certainly by mingling the naivete of youth with the chuckling wistfulness of adult recollection, we can see both the excitement and the allure of 'roaming'...

Kris wrote: "i thought the 5th chapter of the 5 was really the superstar... i couldn't help but draw parallels between the romance of 'riding the river' -- including the people you'd encounter along the way -- ..."

I too really loved the 5th chapter. I felt myself losing concentration through the first 4 but the 5th really grabbed me. I agree that it has a similar feel to "riding the rails" stories. Lets hope it keeps us that feel!

I suspect we will get quite bit of this explorer theme. Not to be too literal, but a steamboat must have been a great way to satisfy wanderlust in those days.

Alisa wrote: "Curious to know how many folks have or have not seen it. If you have seen it the context and at what point along the river, how old you were, your memory or first impressions.

I distinctly recal..."

I've never been east of the Black Hills. I've seen Three Forks in Montana, and I've seen Great Falls, again in Montana. I just try to increase for size since the Missouri is "just" a tributary, but I find that difficult.

Also, as a resident of a hydropowered state, I can testify that none of our big rivers are the same today as they were even a hundred years ago. So, again I try to add a little wildness.

Shannon wrote: Also, as a resident of a hydropowered state, I can testify that none of our big rivers are the same today as they were even a hundred years ago. So, again I try to add a little wildness.


It is hard to imagine the wildness. The only natural barrier on the Ohio River used to be the Ohio Falls near Louisville, KY. Now it has been partially covered by a lock and dam system. Most rivers in the US have been "tamed."