Reading the Chunksters discussion

I think I might have gotten a little confused last week and thought it was my turn to lead, but I think I have it right with this week? Two more weeks to go!

1. Villains! Has your attitude changed at all at this stage regarding who the villains are, or whether there are any at all?

2. Live and let live? In your opinion, can The Merlin's liberal policy towards religious beliefs work for Avalon?

3. Death. How does Bradley deal with the death of her characters?

I have mixed feelings in regards to Kevin. On the one hand I can understand where he is coming from. He understands that the days for Avalon are past and that the world is changing and nothing can alter the changes, there is no way to go back in time. He knows that things will never be again as they once were and so he has accepted the inevitable for what it is and simply chooses to make the best of the situation which can be made of it.

But at the same time I think I myself would be much more like Mograine. She is not willing to betray herself and sacrifice her convictions, but will fight with her last dying breath for what she believes in. If I were her I think I myself would hold onto Avalon and try and keep its mystery and power alive within the world as long as possible. I can understand her not wanting to bend her knee to the close minded priests and thier beleifs which teach intolerance.

I am torn between the two becasue I am sympathetic to Kevin but at the same time I cannot help myself from rooting for Mograine and I can understand her feelings towards Kevin, but I think it is a sad and tragic situation becaue of the love which had once been between them. Even if he does not agree with her or feels that he is being led to work agasint her, he still admires and respects what she does for Avalon and the Goddess.

Silver wrote: "I have mixed feelings in regards to Kevin. On the one hand I can understand where he is coming from. He understands that the days for Avalon are past and that the world is changing and nothing can ..."

I totally feel the same way! I worry that Morgaine may be just fighting a losing battle, but I really think I would try to fight for what I believe in. I feel bad for the destruction of their relationship but I feel sad that the Merlin of Avalon has pretty much given up on Avalon.

Just checking Amanda, is this a repeat of Chapters 6-9?

Catherine wrote: "Silver wrote: "I have mixed feelings in regards to Kevin. On the one hand I can understand where he is coming from. He understands that the days for Avalon are past and that the world is changing a..."

Yes I agree. A part of me felt really bad for what happened to their relationship, and when they had first become lovers a part of me had really wanted them to remain together, and I was angry with Morgaine for still mooning over Lancelet whom she knew she could never have.

I do not think Kevin ever stopped caring for her and loving her, and I felt bad for her that she was loosing that one unconditional support she had when so many of her other relationships had been destroyed or tainted. But at the same time I truly felt that Kevin really had forsaken Avalon and I was irritated with him for that even if I understood the logic behind it, I thought he should have been more supportive of Morgaine and what she desired to achieve instead of turning his back completely. And I was angry when it seemed he had completely accepted Christianity.

Yeah, Morgaine's undying love for Lancelot drives me a little bit crazy. It's just so masochistic, but I guess a big driving part of the book is how they all seem to desire people that they can't really have.

I was really upset with Kevin. I felt like he wasn't even taking a passive role with Avalon anymore and had completely bought into the idea of one god, one name. Even though Taliesin thought the same way, I felt like Taliesin did it in a way to bind Arthur's beliefs to Avalon by connecting the God and the Goddess. Kevin's belief in one god renders the goddess irrelevant. I wonder if maybe the fact that Avalon is so women-centered led the Merlins to start to leave Avalon to fade to the mists while the women priestesses like Viviane and Morgaine fight to save Avalon's place in the world.

Catherine wrote: "I wonder if maybe the fact that Avalon is so women-centered led the Merlins to start to leave Avalon to fade to the mists while the women priestesses like Viviane and Morgaine fight to save Avalon's place in the world.."

That is an interesting thought. I had not considered that. While the Druids were raised to have more respect and reverence with women and see them more equally, they could have been influenced by the more male driven Christianity.

In fact that is a factor that played a key role in converting the Celt's into Christianity. In Celtic culture women were treated a lot more liberally and had more rights than in many other parts of the world, and the Christians acutally appealed to the men and persuaded them if they converted they would have absolute power over thier women and the women must submit to them.

Silver wrote: "Catherine wrote: "In Celtic culture women were treated a lot more liberally and had more rights than in many other parts of the world, and the Christians acutally appealed to the men and persuaded them..."

Oh cool! That's very interesting. I never knew that!

Interesting ideas here guys. I'm liking the feminist angle. I wonder if The Second Sex will cover similar ideas regarding the historical status of women? No doubt it will be a timely companion read. It strikes me as odd that the Christian women seem to consent to male superiority. It is Morgaine that suffers for resisting this rule even a little. I do wonder at how these ideas begin to develop in a previously more egalitarian society.

I also sympathise with Kevin, because I can see myself behaving similarly in the same circumstances. He is a peace maker, trying to avoid violence and death in favour of a more peaceful solution and I find it hard to condemn him for that.

The way in which Bradley approaches death very akin to a Greek Tragedy. The deaths within the book all seem to be something tragic, and something which has been fated by the gods. Even in regarding characters whom we may not like, or who are not particuarly sympathetic there is something sorrowful about thier ultimate demise and never really a feeling of triumph. Even those whom are pitted agasint each other as enemies have a feeling of regret and remorse for what they are led to do.

As an example with Morgraine and Kevin, or Morgraine and Arthur, though on the one hand one may be angry with either of them for thier betrayal of Avalon and in one sense root for Morgraine and essentially Avalon to win, in the other sense, there is a feeling of not truly wanting to see either Kevin or Arthur have to die.

There is no glorification of death, but it is something that must be accepted as the inevitable.