The Girl of Fire and Thorns discussion

I adored Elisa! She was smart, funny and beautiful. This was an amazing story and I can't wait till the sequel Crown of Embers comes out next Fall.

There's a sequel to this! OMG I am sooo going 2 read it!

In the beginning I basically hated Elisa. No offense intended of course. But then I liked her as her character developed into a better person. I really liked her then.

yup, it's a trilogy :) I was Team Hector from the very beginning.

There's a team too?!

I loved Elisa as a character – and appreciated her from the beginning. She felt 100% genuine and real - a character that grew into her role as a hero instead of being introduced with highly heroic, bad ass traits at the start of the novel.

However I was extremely puzzled/confused by what the author did with the romance in the novel. (view spoiler)[What author introduces a love triangle and proceeds to kill both men involved?! That was such a strange turn of events. Thank goodness I loved Hector too. (hide spoiler)]

I can't wait till fall. Uggg. Waiting is so boring.

Mithrendiel wrote: "I loved Elisa as a character – and appreciated her from the beginning. She felt 100% genuine and real - a character that grew into her role as a hero instead of being introduced with highly heroic..."

I was Team Hector from the beginning, haha! <3

It was refreshing to read about a "non-perfect" character. Though, I have to admit, I didn't imagine her being that fat/ugly and it got a little annoying at times her thinking that she was this hideous creature but I truly did like her :)

Okay, let's change it to Team Hector + Elisa! haha :)

FREEBIRD wrote: "What do the teams mean?"

Which guy you are rooting for Elisa being with in the end.

I loved this book, too. I like that no matter who you are, you can relate to Elisa in one way or another, that her character was not this perfection personified. Also, how a normal, every day young women could stand up and accomplish great things. Hector is amazing, so yeah...it's Team Hector for me, too! :)

I'm confused by the team thing, too. Like... Elisa is cool as a developing character. And Hector was awesome to begin with. I think I'll join in with the Team Elisa + Hector crowd. Haha.

(view spoiler)[I'm glad the author took a twist with the "love triangle." Honestly, I don't think she ever intended it to be a love triangle between those characters. Which is actually nice. I'd like to see a realistic relationship develop-- I think there is a lot of potential, in that regard, for something between her and Hector. A lot of detail was given to their interactions. They trust each other. It would make a relationship between them seem real and natural. At least I hope so! (hide spoiler)]

I knew Hector would play a bigger role in her life. I liked him right away. Can't wait for City of Embers.

jenn wrote: "yup, it's a trilogy :) I was Team Hector from the very beginning."


Me too! Hector all the way:)

Elisa is great. She really developed as a character throughout the story. She wasn't a bad person in the beginning--just weak. But she got stronger and became someone out could really root for.

I LOVED how realistic Elisa is. She is so real. Sometimes heroines with flaws are so self-depreciating I can't stand being in their head. But Elisa is realistic about her abilities and is willing to give herself props when she earns them.

Also, I am SO team Hector. He sees her for who she is.


Leti Del Mar
The Inadvertent Thief

Leti wrote: "I LOVED how realistic Elisa is. She is so real. Sometimes heroines with flaws are so self-depreciating I can't stand being in their head. But Elisa is realistic about her abilities and is willin..."

Team Hector <3

What is this I've read in the description for the second book??
Is it going to be BELEN???? what about TEAM HECTOR?

I really liked Elisa's character (and yes I do think the author is going somewhere with the Hector story arc and I'm really looking forward to that) but though I loved the book in general I had a real problem with one aspect of it.

This is what I said as part of my review. I think it's a serious flaw that otherwise marrs a very good book. It won't stop me reading the next one, but it's something I would like to challenge the author on, because I think it's a trope she could so easily have avoided.

All credit to her, Ms Carson makes it clear that you don't have to be beautiful to do great things, and that's excellent, however, she does also make it perfectly clear that though you can be plain, you can't be FAT! and this is where I have a bone to pick. Elisa starts with such low self esteem that she can't understand why the handsome king wants her as his wife. She sees herself as totally unlovable. She wobbles when she walks and comfort eats because she feels unloved. Though she does perform one act of incredible bravery shortly after the book opens it's not until she undergoes various hardships that melt the fat from her ungainly body that she really begins to shine. She goes from being unable to walk very far without her body hurting, to being fit and slim and (oh-my-god) DESIRABLE in the matter of just a few months. Because of course she wasn't desirable when she was FAT for goodness sake! It's the wrong message in this day and age when girls suffer from eating disorders due to a distorted media view of the ideal body image. And that's why this book is getting a three star rating from me and not a five star one.

You can read my whole review here on Goodreads or on my LiveJournal blog including the short discussion that developed with another published fantasy author:
http://birdsedge.livejournal.com/2186...

Humm... You make some good points Jacey but I'm going to have to differ.

A large part of her low self-worth comes from being the younger,less impressive sister. This topic is nicely explored in the prequel SHADOW CATS. It doesn't all come from her body image. Also, she is desirable before her body transformation. That is confirmed with Hectors words to her at her coronation. She does lose weight, but Elisa doesn't become slim. She is still larger than the Countess and her sister. What she does become is healthy and strong. Her transformation allows her to do the kinds of physical feats of strength she wouldn't have been able to do before.

I don't think this has an anti-fat message. I think it's message has more to do with being the strongest person you can be and I kind of like that.

I like the mental transformation aspect of it and I agree the author is unspecific about the exact size of the slimmed-down Elisa (she's certainly not skinny because she's got muscle now) but the little hints of 'wobble' when she hurries show her as quite flabby at the beginning, and even though you can become stronger and firm up, you don't lose that amount of flab in just a few months. I agree that Hector found her attractve pre-weight-loss whereas the king obviously didn't (though he obviously respected her brain) and only took notice of her body when the corset put the curves in the right place.

I didn't know there was a prequel (I thought this was a debut), but I'll try and get hold of Shadow Cats and see if that changes the way I see Fire and Thorn. Thanks for the information.

I went back and forth about what I thought about Elisa not being desirable before the weight loss. Was it a good message or a bad one...I think in the end I land with Leti. Elisa is not a tiny little princess by the end of the book. She is slimmer and can move more easily, yes, but she is not some tiny little girl. By losing some weight and overcoming the obstacles she did encounter though, she learned to love herself. Perhaps there is something to be said about being able to love ourselves for who we are. Elisa really doesn't have much of a chance to do that in this book. I love the growth of her inner strength. I love that she wasn't stupid and vapid. I love that even when she comes home and has lost weight, she isn't this tiny, perfect cheerleader/princess of a girl.

I don't know. I really did love the book though and can't wait for the next one.

Jacey wrote: "I really liked Elisa's character (and yes I do think the author is going somewhere with the Hector story arc and I'm really looking forward to that) but though I loved the book in general I had a r..."

I don't know Jacey, I don't think the author is saying you can't be fat and do great things. I think lots of women/girls struggle with their body image and feel uncomfortable with themselves at some point in their lives. I think Elisa's low self-esteem issues had more to do with her sister being the favored one and Elisa being virtually ignored in the beginning. I think as she continues on in the book and is tested in different ways, she becomes surer of herself. Yes, during this process she loses weight, but it's not like she turns in to skinny barbie or something. She just feels more confident in herself, and that is what makes her feel more desirable. I thought she was a great character.

I loved this book and I thought Elisa was a refreshing character. I've already got the next in the series marked to read.

I thought it was great. She wasn't your average stick thin heroine. She was like a lot of women out there struggling with their weight. Even more with their body image and self-esteem issues. Elisa was a great example of not being held back by what she thought, people thought was wrong with her.

I totally agree that it was refreshing to actually have a realistic character who worked hard in her own right. A true hero does not have to be beautiful. Elisa was smart and steady and worked really hard to cross a desert pretty much on foot!

At the beginning I was worried that this book would be all about her having self-esteem issues but I loved how it turned out. I also liked how she did a good amount of bossing people around because if you're a ruler you are going to need to order people but not be pompous or overbearing and I think people leave that out a lot of times in books.

Elisa was quite "relateable" in many ways, not the least of which was her relationship with her sister and the interplay of how we compare ourselves to our siblings. However, I was so hoping she would not have to undergo a complete Cinderalla style makeover, emerging thin and tan!

Klee wrote: "Elisa was quite "relateable" in many ways, not the least of which was her relationship with her sister and the interplay of how we compare ourselves to our siblings. However, I was so hoping she w..."

She didn't emerge "thin", she just toned up a bit. I don't imagine her thin at all. I imagine her now being curvy/voluptuous.

(I just finished re-reading this book yesterday)

There was a point in the book where it mentioned a dress was too big in the waist and too tight in the breast, that seemed to suggest a more attractive figure than I expected, I can see the corset making her quite attractive after so little time but to put such a curve to her waist? I know we all lose weight differently (if you're me, not at all) and certainly she could have revealed a natural hourglass figure once some flab went away but...I donno. It seems like after so little time she still be a little shapeless.

Samantha wrote: "There was a point in the book where it mentioned a dress was too big in the waist and too tight in the breast, that seemed to suggest a more attractive figure than I expected, I can see the corset ..."

Normally I think she would. But you would lose A LOT of retained water hiking through a desert for a month. And all the walking builds muscle.

It's not like she went on a diet and got skinny. She had to work to stay alive.

I understand what you mean, though. I just think more time passes in each book than it seems when you're reading it.

I went back through and toward the end as her body is changing she mentions how she didn't have to lift up her breasts anymore to see the Godstone. So with that visual, and in hindsight, she must have been on the plus side and after her transformation she likely still was shapely not model skinny. Thanks for the thoughtful replies!

Ok so i'm in the middle of reading the book and i don't like how alejandro treats her, i'm on the part where she is kidnapped and meets humberto for the first time

Rufayda wrote: "Ok so i'm in the middle of reading the book and i don't like how alejandro treats her, i'm on the part where she is kidnapped and meets humberto for the first time"

This is more or less where the book really begins to be honest.

I think that as long as she didn't become anorexically skinny, it's a decent message as far as weight. The thing in the beginning wasn't that she was ugly, she was UNHEALTHY. At the end, she wasn't super pretty, but she was HEALTHY. Right there in the good weight zone.

i thought it was soooo cool that the author made her more realistic, less perfect. it was refreshing. and FYI i freaking KNEW she was gunna be with Hector! heck yeah!! i rooted for him since the beginning hahaha

I found it very refreshing for the main character not be unrealistically attractive. She had normal problems and dealt with them with food. Nice touch. I liked the characters realistic transformation. Five stars on that.

Oh my god this book was fantastic I was sad when Humberto died.This was one of the best books I've read. I'm so happy it's a trilogy

Does it get better? Because I could not get past the first 75 pages.

Ugh. All she did was complain about how fat she was and continue eating.

Warner wrote: "Does it get better? Because I could not get past the first 75 pages.

Ugh. All she did was complain about how fat she was and continue eating."

Its a cycle, we complain and feel bad and then eat to make ourselves feel better. Horrible cycle. Many suffer from this syndrome.

Shaye wrote: "Warner wrote: "Does it get better? Because I could not get past the first 75 pages.

Ugh. All she did was complain about how fat she was and continue eating."

Its a cycle, we complain and feel ba..."

I'm not saying it's not a real struggle. I'm saying it doesn't make for a very good book. (At least the way it was written.)

Hang in there, Warner. It does get better but she continues to have self esteem issues IMO.

Shaye wrote: "Hang in there, Warner. It does get better but she continues to have self esteem issues IMO."


Self-esteem issues, no problem. Glad to know it gets better. :)

Heeey i have a question. Is therealove-hate relationship? Because i completely adore this kind of relationships :D

Shaye wrote: "I found it very refreshing for the main character not be unrealistically attractive. She had normal problems and dealt with them with food. Nice touch. I liked the characters realistic transform..."

Yeah, if only she hadn't gone out to the desert and gotten thin (but muscular) and put on a tight leather outfit.

I cried over this book. I hadn't done that in a while. I found Elisa very relateable.

A lot of people are saying Elisa was fat and ugly at the beginning but thin and ugly or plain at the end. I cannot recall it saying she was plain or ugly at all. You can be fat and not ugly. And being thin in its self does not make one pretty. She was fat and definitely had a eating disorder. This was overcome when she had to only think of survival. She was not longer mentally dependent on food.

Humberto found her attractive no matter what her weight. Her husband only found her status attractive until she lost weight and then only because the right parts were accentuated for sex appeal. It is shallow people that would judge attractiveness solely on weight.

This was a great trilogy, loved it from start to finish... any suggestions on what other books/ series would be good follow up? Thanks for your suggestions. Tim

Definitely, and this also makes a lot of room for character development, so I was really happy with Elisa when she got stronger and braver compared to in the beginning.