Supernatural Fiction Readers discussion

I was surprised to discover just now that, although we have threads for vampires, ghosts, witches, and zombies in fiction, we don't have one for werewolves! It's time to remedy that, and give werewolves their proper respect. :-)

Many fans of the lycanthropy motif think that H. Warner Munn's The Werewolf of Ponkert and its related corpus is the definitive literary treatment of the werewolf mythos, though I haven't read it myself. Truth to tell, I'm not nearly as well read in this branch of supernatural fiction as some others here probably are. But I'm a big fan of Clemence Housman's Victorian novella The Were-Wolf, and greatly enjoyed short stories like Anthony Boucher's "The Compleate Werewolf," Jerome Bixby's "The Young One," and Peter S. Beagle's "Lila the Werewolf." Of course, werewolves play a significant part in both the Twilight saga and the Mortal Instruments series. More recently, I've read and liked Drunk on the Moon by Paul Brazill, the first installment of a series of stories (which the author invited selected other writers to continue and develop in installments of their own) about a noir style P.I. who happens to be a werewolf.

Do you have favorite werewolf novels or stories? Do you have any thoughts about the different fictional takes on the mythos? (Not all literary werewolves are identical, any more than literary vampires are!) What do you like or dislike in werewolf fiction? How do you feel about the current crop of fictional offerings in this subgenre? This is the thread for discussing those questions, and any other thoughts and insights you have on the subject!

To start off, I wrote a werewolf novel that was released this last March, called St. Martin's Moon, so that has to be my favorite. The model I used is the model I grew up with, the Universal werewolf. As I understand it, this werewolf is almost entirely a construction of Universal Studios, in that it has almost no tradition behind it. I didn't know anything about other types of werewolves until I read Jim Butcher's book Fool Moon, which lists four other types. The book Her Majesty's Wizard also has a werewolf character, who is a man cursed because he cannot keep his lust in check. Another book that gives an explicit rationale for why the curse exists is Mark of the Werewolf. I enjoyed that one, in spite of the rather broad strokes used to depict the various characters, especially the bad guys. The idea that the curse could have a reason, and the possibility of a cure, and even the terrible epilog, are all factors that played into my own novel.

One of my favorite werewolves is Larry Talbot, based on the character from the old movies, that Roger Zelazny has in A Night in the Lonesome October.

Another is Kitty Norville. That's a series of books by Carrie Vaughn & starts with Kitty and the Midnight Hour. She's a radio talk show host & a lot of fun. A somewhat kick-ass heroine type. In this series, werewolves are infected with the virus & live in packs, usually one per city or area. They can't be born because changing causes a woman to miscarry.

Most of the PNR/Urbran Fantasies have werewolves in them. Most often they're in packs & pretty normal in most other ways, rather than the tortured loner types. Laurell K. Hamilton & Charlaine Harris have the same type in their Anita Blake & Sookie Stackhouse series, respectively.

Sue Dent, a member of this group, has two books featuring a werewolf, Never Ceese & Forever Richard.

Werewolves are one of my favorite subgenres of paranormal, supernatural, and fantasy fiction. Patricia Briggs is my favorite werewolf writer. I also enjoyed the Were-wolf, and the first Kitty Norville book (as far as I've read).

I'm always on the lookout for good werewolf fiction.

Hi Marc--what is the Universal werewolf? Does anyone remember the old black and white werewolf movies? Any idea who played the part of the werewolf? The one I remember had something to do with a gypsy camp.

Carole, I think the original black-and-white werewolf movie you're thinking of is The Wolf Man, made by Universal in 1941. It has gypsies in it, and the werewolf (Lawrence Talbot, whom Jim mentioned in his post above) was played by Lon Chaney, Jr. I saw this one a few years ago for the first time, and was only moderately impressed; I think much of the power of its appeal when it was made came more from the novelty of the concept at that time than from strong plotting or deep characteriztion and exploration of emotions (though it has its moments).

A link with more information is http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0034398 .

Werner--I think you are probably right--still--those movies were fun--the old mummy ones were my favorite--do you remember an old movie where the walls of the haunted house bled? Scared the hell out of me and since I've seen a lot of horror shows and movies--that takes some doing!!

Carole wrote: "Hi Marc--what is the Universal werewolf? Does anyone remember the old black and white werewolf movies? Any idea who played the part of the werewolf? The one I remember had something to do with a..."

The Universal werewolf is the werewolf concept that was created by Universal Studios for their Wolfman series, poor Larry Talbot, as Werner described. Larry Talbot was played by Lon Chaney Jr., who was much better as the wolfman than he ever was as Dracula. I like the way his story arc has a happy ending eventually, in House of Dracula, I think.

I thought there was an earlier version of 'The Wolfman' in the 30's too. No? But yeah, the Lon Chaney version was the one I was referring to. Zelazny packed the book with references like that. It's a good story if you don't get them, but a super story if you read one chapter per day during October & study it with a bunch of other people. (Each day is a chapter in the book.)

BTW, great idea for a topic, Werner.

Thanks, Jim!

Carole, to amplify what Marc wrote, the Universal films "werewolf" was a two-legged man/wolf hybrid. In the original folklore, werewolves actually turned completely into wolves.

Jim wrote: "I thought there was an earlier version of 'The Wolfman' in the 30's too. No? But yeah, the Lon Chaney version was the one I was referring to. Zelazny packed the book with references like that. ..."

There was Werewolf of London (1935), I think.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0027194/

I read up on werewolf movies, for some reason.

Werner wrote: "Carole, to amplify what Marc wrote, the Universal films "werewolf" was a two-legged man/wolf hybrid. In the original folklore, werewolves actually turned completely into wolves."

See the excellent Blood and Chocolate. I saw the film, not the book, but the werewolves turn completely into wolves, in a very beautiful scene. The lore referenced by Butcher also has the men turning into a full wolf form.

In the movie Red Riding Hood the wolf turns completely into a wolf. It is a well done wolf and doesn't look like a bear which it does in American Werewolf in London. I am very picky about this. I get annoyed when it looks like some great bear. The movie Wolf which has Jack Nicholson and Michelle Pfeiffer also has very good wolves. Red Riding Hood is best tho as in it the village first kills a real wolf and then you can see the different between the werewolf and a real wolf.

Red Riding Hood....watch the movie as the reviews on the book are not good.

Shiver Shiver also has some good ideas on this.

Marc wrote: "There was Werewolf of London (1935), I think. ..."

Thanks. That's probably what I was thinking of. I have a lot of trouble keeping them all straight in my head. Actually, I don't try, just let them blur together.

I do want to see 'Red Riding Hood'. It looked good, but The Boss isn't interested, so I probably won't any time soon. She's not into horror movies at all.

David Case wrote a couple of great werewolf tales, "The Cell" and "Fengriffen". One of them never reveals whether the lycanthropy is real or imagined, while the other one does (pretty much). More recently, Michael Reynier's "Le Loup-Garou" in his Tartarus Press collection "Five Degrees of Latitude" has a werewolf (maybe), which is ultimately little more than a catalyst in a rather convoluted, but engrossing, gothic tale. I think Angela Slatter's excellent "Sourdough and Other Stories", also from Tartarus, has one or more werewolf characters among its linked tales; and I remember one more recent werewolf that I can't place, but it may have been in Reggie Oliver's "The Dracula Papers Book 1".

Guess I didn't realize that Red Riding Hood was about a werewolf--have to check out the website--The Boss huh?! Well--my S.O. doesn't like them either--I have to fight football in order to even watch Grimm or the Closer for that matter--and he likes that one! Don't get me wrong--I love football--but not 3 nights in a row--and only if the Seahawks are playing and yes--I'm from Seattle!!

The only sports we watch is horse related; racing, show jumping, eventing, etc... She loves murder mystery/cop shows, so we watch a fair few. I often wander off, though. I find it hard to sit still for that long unless I'm doing something. One reason I knit & spin. I tried carving, but it's too messy & I get too distracted to read, most of the time.

Yes, The Boss - capitals - while the boss is at work. I've been married long enough to know.
;-)

Robert E. Howard wrote a couple of werewolf stories. They're the first 2 in the 'Other Horror' section here:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Author:...
You can read them online. The 'Forest' one is very short & explains (or is a bit of a spoiler for) the other.

Really--I love horses! Do you live someplace where you have your own horses? I think it's cool that you knit and what do you use to spin? What kind of things do you make by spinning? I also love mystery, murder,and mayhem and cop shows--one of my favorites is Criminal Minds--also Harry's Law.

Yes, we have a small farm, 15 acres, outside of Frankfort, KY. The horse fields are on 3 sides of the house & they occasionally get into the back yard, so they're pretty close.
;-)

We have 3 ex-race horses, Thoroughbreds, & my daughter's old Games pony, a 13H Welsh named Speedy. Not to mention 4 dogs & 2 goats, Kinder (half Pygmy, half Nubian). IOW, it's not a working farm, just for fun. I grew up on a working farm & it is too much work.

I'm just learning to spin & I'm hoping to spin dog, horse or goat hair into yarn & make some remembrance pieces, like scarves. I made my own spinning wheel, but just found out that a friend is giving me one, too. You can see pictures of mine here:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...

We watch a lot of Law & Orders, it seems like. Honestly, I don't really keep track of them. Harry's Law is on the list, too. No Criminal Minds, but some CSI's.

WOW--that is really cool--seems like you are a man of many talents! I'll check it out on facebook--I have an account but have really never learned to use it! Kentucky--that sounds very cool. Never been there--just to the deep south--my husband of 20 years who passed away 5 years ago was born and raised in Mississippi. Beautiful country. I have probably seen most all of the Law and Order and SVU episodes except the brand new ones and I love Harry's Law. Have you posted any pictures of your horses?

There's a bunch of pictures of the horses on there.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...

Both have some in them, plus the dogs.

I just looked at your Facebook--you actually made your own knitting needles? The horses are beautiful and the dogs are cute--how cool. You must have a pretty big property? I have never eaten anything--meat-poultry-milk--that didn't come from the grocery store!!

Bigger knitting needles & crochet hooks, say 3/8" & up, are pretty easy to turn on a lathe. It was much harder making the spinning wheel. Thanks, we like our spoiled beasties.

No, our place is only 15 acres, about 5 of that is woods. Plenty to take care of, but not too much. I grew up on a 130 acre farm with 50 ewes, a dozen steers, horses & all kinds of fowl, so it's kind of cozy, actually. There's a lot to be said for store bought food. You don't have to clean pens or skip sleep when it's lambing time.
;-)

Has anyone read The Last Werewolf by Glen Duncan? This has been on my to-read list for a while now. I'm probably going to pick it up with any holiday money I receive this month. ;P If you've read it, what do you think of it? I've read Duncan's I, Lucifer: Finally, the Other Side of the Story and I just loved it.

Jennifer wrote: "Has anyone read The Last Werewolf by Glen Duncan? This has been on my to-read list for a while now. I'm probably going to pick it up with any holiday money I receive this month. ;P I..."

Hey Jennifer--can you give me a brief review and synopsis on the I, Lucifer book? Sounds interesting.

Hey all--for all the werewolves out there--tonite is a really really FULL MOON!!!

Carole wrote: "Jennifer wrote: "Has anyone read The Last Werewolf by Glen Duncan? This has been on my to-read list for a while now. I'm probably going to pick it up with any holiday money I receive..."

I, Lucifer is fantastic! Essentially, God gives Lucifer another chance to get back into Heaven, but he has to live on Earth in the body of a hapless author for a period of time first. It's incredibly funny and thought-provoking at the same time. The book is told, of course, in the first-person by Lucifer, and that not only allows Lucifer to give his account of Biblical tales, it gives the book a really personal feel. It definitely gets 5 stars from me.

There's a CD for it, too, with music by The Real Tuesday Weld that's incredibly trippy but awesome.

Jennifer wrote: "Carole wrote: "Jennifer wrote: "Has anyone read The Last Werewolf by Glen Duncan? This has been on my to-read list for a while now. I'm probably going to pick it up with any holiday ..."

Jennifer--OMG--that sound you hear is my TBR shelf falling over!! Gotta check it out though--what else do you like? I just added a couple more to my list at the library--since I have so many I can't remember the names but I'll check and let you know--maybe you've heard of them.

Jennifer wrote: "Carole wrote: "Jennifer wrote: "Has anyone read The Last Werewolf by Glen Duncan? This has been on my to-read list for a while now. I'm probably going to pick it up with any holiday ..."

Didn't realize that you are an author--will take a peek at your website! Your book sounds laugh out loud good.

Another good werewolf story I forgot to mention above is "Gabriel-Ernest," by turn-of-the-century Britisn writer Saki (H. H. Munro). It's an excellent example of his mordant gallows humor.

If your into Urban Fantasy, Jim Butcher's Fool Moon is a fun Werewolf story. I've been enjoying it.

There's also The Undying Monster: A Tale of the Fifth Dimension by Jessie Douglas Kerruish and Moon of the Wolf by Leslie H. Whitten Jr..

And I guess I should mention that we just did two werewolf stories on Pseudopod - "In 'The Poor Girl Taken By Surprise'" by Gemma Files and "The Stink of Animosity" by Rob E. Boley. The first is fairly untraditional, tying werewolves back to ancient Greek myth, the latter is more straightforward (although I've kind of spoiled it a little just by putting it in this thread - a recurrent danger of the werewolf story!)

Katherine Kerr's book License to Ensorcell has a werewolf plot. The heroine's brother is a werewolf, and falls in with a group of Bible students who are trying to control their curse. They are being stalked by an evil werewolf hunter.

Marc, if only my to-read shelf wasn't already so out of control! (Sighs longingly. :-) )

Carole wrote: "Jennifer wrote: "Carole wrote: "Jennifer wrote: "Has anyone read The Last Werewolf by Glen Duncan? This has been on my to-read list for a while now. I'm probably going to pick it up ..."

Aww, thank you! :) And don't worry, my TBR list is about 100 miles long at this point, too. But I'm glad I could be the one to recommend the book that sent your TBR shelf falling over. LOL!

Aooooooo! :)

The Last Werewolf has been on my TBR list forever, but I haven't gotten around to picking it up yet.

I love the Patricia Briggs werewolf books mentioned up above, both of her shifter series take place in the same world and are great.

The only werewolf books I know of are Shiver, Linger, & Forever...

There's a nice new edition of Guy Endore's long ot-of-print novel "The Werewolf Of Paris" that was just released by Pegasus press. I haven't read it yet, but just got my copy from Amazon last week. It's likely the most attractive version of the novel in print. This, along with "The Undying Monster" (mentioned above) and Gerald Biss's "The Door of the Unreal" are important early twentieth century werewolf novels. http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/44...

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/14...

http://www.amazon.com/The-Werewolf-Pa...

Also, in terms of classic werewolf fiction, there is George W.M. Reynold's "Wagner the Werewolf," which is available in a very affordable edition by Wordsworth Classics. http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10...

There is also this mid-nineteenth century classic, "The Man-Wolf and Other Tales," by Emile Erckmann and Louis Chatrain: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/81...

Matthew, thanks for the links, will be checking out the Guy Endore classic...and others...

And yes, as someone else commented, thanks Werner, for starting this topic...personally, werewolves are much cooler than those other supernatural night-stalkers and always interested in classic works, as well as modern incarnations. I, however, prefer them to be as they should be...scary...horrifying...not romantic figures.

You're welcome, Chris! I think the fanged-and-furry set definitely deserve their own thread. :-)

The question of whether werewolves "should be" vicious, horrifying figures that personify supernatural evil, or benevolent and helpful figures that can even be romantic, is parallel to the same question in regard to vampires (a debate that comes up perennially here on Goodreads). There are valid literary reasons for both kinds of portrayals, depending on the author's purpose and literary vision. As with vampires, I personally prefer a view that allows them to use their power for either good or evil, or some shade of gray, depending on their individual personality and moral choices (I'm such a strong believer in free will that I think even werewolves deserve to have some :-) ). But I can enjoy compelling, well-conceived stories of either type. Clemence Houseman's title character in The Were-Wolf is as scary and horrifying a malevolent character as you'll ever find in fiction. On the other hand, another of my favorite literary werewolves is a decent guy who saves the day and gets the girl. (That is, as something other than dinner. :-) )

Just read this short story done for a writing contest in another group. It's under 2000 words, so a very quick read.

http://www.goodreads.com/story/show/3...

Werner wrote: "You're welcome, Chris! I think the fanged-and-furry set definitely deserve their own thread. :-)

The question of whether werewolves "should be" vicious, horrifying figures that personify supernat..."

I'm of the mind that they are best played as human. After all, all our favorite supernatural creatures are really just human beings characterized in such a way as to emphasize certain aspects of our nature. Carrie Vaughn's Kitty Norville books are especially good at this.

Jim, thanks for sharing that link! That's a pretty cool story.

Anyone read Tessier's novel on lychanthropy? Anyone have any thoughts? I found it to be both compelling and particularly disturbing.

I read this a few years ago and liked it, Benjamin...very good, a bit different but had enough of the traditional stuff to satisfy diehard lycanthrope fans...I thought, anyway...

I enjoyed Wolf's Hour by Robert R. McCammon. His flash backs to growing up with werewolves were very interesting. It reminded me of "The Howling" but less creepy.

Agreed, Curmudgeon...check out The Hunter from the Woods from RM...have it on my nook but haven't read it yet. I'm sure it won't disappoint...