Think [the box] ing discussion

First of all, I think with Obama at the helm the rest of the world will be sniggering a lot less - he's someone we can take more seriously, being intelligent, charismatic and, well, a professional.

I think America really needs to sort out its own problems rather than attempting (and screwing up) everyone else's. The problem of their involvement in Iraq is not going to be easy to solve, and simply withdrawing won't help, sadly.

I would like to see the US grow up a bit. I don't think it will ever be able to correct the misinterpretation of socialism that has tainted it for so long and held it back from being a true democracy (ironic I know) - but these piss-poor arguments that things like national health care constitute interference from the government just have to stop, it's utter nonesense and highly debilitating.

Let's just clear the air on this a bit. Take it from someone who's lived in two countries with health cover for all, regardless of income: the government never asks you details, they never question whether you actually need the surgery etc., they never promise to pay your bills and then don't and then take you to court - you simply go to the doctor, swipe your card so the doctor gets paid, and that's it. They won't cover elective surgery, it's true, and then you need private coverage, and they DO um and ah over it and give you limits and all the rest. The biggest problem in Australia and Canada is wait time.

If the argument held water, then education should be completely private too, not to mention water and - yes! let's start paying for the air we breathe as well!

Privatisation doesn't make things fairer, cheaper or more reliable or efficient. That kind of rhetoric is bullshit. But when I hear Sarah Palin make the argument (wildly applauded) that the last thing they should want is "government interference" - christ, what's the point of having a government if they aren't ensuring the health, safety and - where possible - happiness of their people?? Do you really think a corporation gives a shit? You can't vote them out if they don't deliver. There's no accountability.

I could go on forever about this. Just please, stop calling it socialism (or even communism, which is an even bigger stretch) and learn what these words actually mean!

Rock on Shannon. So well-put.These words could have been mine. This huge, exuberant country took my breath away when I woke up and realized that they did not have national medical system and their tired and wrung out objection to socialism and etc. was staggering.And this was twenty or so years ago. I do not envy Obama and the task he has on hand. But your concerns as well as a necessary dose of humility would be a good start.

Held back from being a true democracy? Wait, it seems to me that the country was founded and created as a republic. We do understand the difference don't we?

So if the government provides it, then it's free? Is that what I'm hearing?

Don't get me started on education. Do you know where we stand internationally on education?

Does anyone every stop to think that governments want you to think that they are the answer to your problems? If so, why would they want us to think that?

Sure ... A Democracy is a nation governed by the People or their representatives. A Republic is a nation without a King (technically speaking).

When has the United States government done anything cheaper, more realiably or more efficiently? This link shows how well the government has helped the victims of Hurricane Katrina during the past three years.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote20...

Private citizens are rebuilding New Orleans homes, not the government.

Private citizens are rebuilding New Orleans homes, not the government.

That is a real travesty.

What part? The government should Not be rebuilding New Orleans. Of course, they should not be bailing out banks and manufacturers either :(

The link has a good definition of the difference between a democracy and a republic: http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/Ame....

We would do well to remember it before the definition gets changed.

"christ, what's the point of having a government if they aren't ensuring the health, safety and - where possible - happiness of their people?" I would like to know how a government would ensure the happiness of their people. Safety, yes from the standpoint of invaders. Health? What are they going to do - make us become vegetarians, force us to stop eating junk food?

Let's not just go an inch deep and a mile wide, as they say of us in Japan, but let's look at things a mile deep and an inch wide when we sling out our comments.

I believe "government" has gotten us too comfortable at looking at things just on the surface. Don't look too deep. You might see the man behind the curtain.

Except that for many, the definition has already changed, making any distinction between the two an academic excersize. From your source:

It has been greatly misunderstood and widely misused--for example as long ago as the time of Plato, when he wrote his celebrated volume, The Republic; in which he did not discuss anything governmental even remotely resembling--having essential characteristics of--a genuine Republic. Frequent reference is to be found, in the writings of the period of the framing of the Constitution for instance, to "the ancient republics," but in any such connection the term was used loosely--by way of contrast to a monarchy or to a Direct Democracy--often using the term in the sense merely of a system of Rule-by-Law featuring Representative government;


The fact is that the original definition in its earliest form is simply a government that is not a monarchy with respect to the executive. The term has evolved to be virtually interchangable with democracy for the vast majority of english speakers. Simply trying to shoe-horn all use of the term democracy into ONLY direct democracy is to make use of the term completely pointless as there are no pure direct democracies (it is not practical beyond a small town or city population). There are hybrids of course ... such as the US.

The US has elements of a Constitutional Democracy, Consensus Democracy, Representational Democracy, Social Democracy and Republican Democracy ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic...

I agree with you, Kristjan, that the government should not be bailing out banks or manufacturers, yet our esteemed representatives in the U.S. Congress have approved (so far) $700 billion of taxpayer dollars to do just that, with some now calling it an "economic stimulus package." I am outraged! First, because I do not think it is the role of the government to bail out private corporations. Second, I don't think the government can do it cheaply, reliably, or efficiently. The $80 billion (again tax dollars) our legislators approved to help victims of Hurricane Katrina has done relatively little to rebuild homes in New Orleans and surrounding areas.

I live in a (hybrid) democracy, but I think my governmental representatives have forgotten what that means.

Why shouldn't the government help, Kristjan? It's generally the norm, in other countries, and with good reason! I certainly disagree that the US government should be bailing out the banks etc., but that's not the same thing.

Speaking of which, US car companies with plants in Ontario have asked the provincial government for a bailout too. What cheek! At this point, giving them money would be more like a reward for being such irresponsible, short-sighted screw-ups.

Because the government should not be rewarding poor descisions (most of the city is below sea-level ... not really the best place to build)?

Because there exists a market solution (insurance) that was already in place prior to that should be used instead?

What should the government do? Short term disaster relief (which I will admit should have gone a lot better). But rebuilding private homes with public money? I'll pass.

Charly,
Are you trying to get permission to speak your mind in your own forum? That's very interesting!
With my whole heart,
Colleen

Charly,
If I don't know you "well enough" who's fault is that. How long does it really take to get to know someone?
I am a couragous, loving, joyful daughter of light. Whatever it takes for you to really know me I am willing to give.
Have a wonderful day.
With my whole heart,
Colleen
(I believe that's what it really takes -- a open heart, a willing mind and the courage to share both).

I've been incredibly busy lately Charly. It sometimes takes me a while to drop in. Silence does not mean anything but that I haven't had a chance to even read the posts! But this is not my playground, it's for anyone who wants to be here and discuss things. You're all welcome :)

Kristjan, undoubtedly there were bad decisions involved. It's certainly not the only city built too close to sea level - most coastal cities would be under water if sea levels rise as predicted due to global warming. I don't think private insurance would help. But the US government seemed to treat New Orleans like some kind of third-world country - most people think because of the high ratio of black people living there - and practically ignored it when disaster struck.

This is a really basic thing: why is America so quick (sometimes) to respond to disasters etc. in other countries, sending relief and aid and engineers, but can't even help out in it's own backyard? The only reason America can call itself a rich country is because they have a certain minority who are incredibly rich, but the gap between them and the majority, the middle classes and the poor, is massive.

I strongly object to any country that lauds itself and presents a righteous image of goodness and liberty and all the rest of it, while its people are living in abject poverty, are barely educated, and unsupported. Yes it is the government who should be responsible for education, health care and disaster relief. There shouldn't be companies making money off other people's misfortune. Yes insurance is a good thing to have, but not everyone can afford it, or even get it when they need it, and since when is it ever enough? The feeling that your own government is giving you the cold shoulder and doesn't give a shit about you - that's harsh. It amazes me that internal loyalty is still so strong.

I guess this is what makes America such a never-ending topic of discussion and study etc. No matter your opinion, everyone has one and they feel strongly about it.