Vegan Cooking & Cookbooks discussion
Off Topic (not cookbooks) Chat
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What does being vegan mean to you?
Plain and simple for me being vegan means showing compassion for all animals! For me it was never for health reasons, though I know it's beneficial. It just would have never been reason enough for me to go vegan. It's more like a positive side-effect. ;)
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I think think this is something that has changed over time with me. I initially investigated veganism because of health concerns but once I learned about the animal cruelty issues and the devastation to the earth that animal agriculture causes, it felt like a no-brainer to me.
I feel that I'm continually learning and evolving as a person so even though I may not succeed %100 of the time in avoiding animal products, my intent is to do so. As human beings, since we are not all at the same place at the same time, I have compassion and forgiveness for myself as well as others if I'm not perfect.
It's also very important for me to model compassionate choices for my daughter. If I walk the talk then I feel like that will have a big impact on her and perhaps on others. Who knows how big the ripple effect could be?
Being vegan also means (for me) to eliminate animal products as best as possible without needing to go 100% extreme! I don't mean that flip back and forth between one day buying dairy and the next not! No, I mean, if I go to the bakery and buy a bread that I only afterwards find out contains traces of honey or even milk or egg whites, I don't suddenly throw this loaf in the trash! Or if my husband buys a frozen veggie burger for me (actually happened already) and I read it contains egg whites.. I'll still eat it! Would I buy the bread or burger again? Probably not, if I have other options! But I try to be flexible as much as I can justify with myself and my conscience, especially when I'm outside my own home and with omnis. I also want to be a good role model for my daughter and feel I can't be that if I'm an extremist.
For me it started as health, and a personal choice. But it has evolved into so much more. I can't believe in three months how much I have changed. I was just never aware of the need for such powerful activism. Truly...I as one of those non-vegans that thought fur was gross BUT Peta was a little too radical for me. Now I feel the outrage when I see someone wearing fur. If I never became vegan, I never would have learned more about the process of "harvesting" skin/fur to make those coats. I think if anything, being vegan has been an opportunity to walk through the door of awareness. Like in the movie The Matrix, veganism is the pill that makes me see the world for what it really is.
Now I see my veganism as an opportunity to teach others what I have learned. I also think being vegan means that I have a responsibility to learn all that I can about topics like animal abuse, animal exploitation, plant-based health, etc...
Although I really thought that when hubs and I started the vegan diet we would just change our eating habits and not get involved with anything else. But I just can't sit back and eat my beans and carrots quietly anymore lol.
( I hope that makes sense. I have a million thoughts racing through my head lately and even though things make sense to me, lately they have been coming out disjointed, sorry)
Val wrote: "Being vegan also means (for me) to eliminate animal products as best as possible without needing to go 100% extreme! I don't mean that flip back and forth between one day buying dairy and the next ..."I still have many oops moments...we had the same thing happen with veggie burgers the other day. We won't eat them, but my step-daughter who isn't vegan will. She gets all of our "thought they were vegan" castoffs LOL!
I have been getting more nit-picky though and it has surprised me! The other night I was at my friend's and she wanted me to try this "amazing" new beer she loved. She took it out of the fridge, popped the top, and just as I was going to take a sip...I saw the H-word. The beer was made with honey (Lisa you will be proud of me..hehe) and I put it down. I couldn't drink it. (Hubs and I decided after we had the honey discussion here on goodreads a month or two ago to give it up completely) and so I couldn't drink the beer.
And my friend was shocked that I didn't just drink it anyway. I can't explain it...it was like... I couldn't even touch it. If only I could have such resolve when it came to vegan cupcakes...
She had to drink it...because no beer should go to waste, lol.
Farrah wrote: "Val wrote: "Lisa you will be proud of me..hehe":-)
(My first post in a sec.)
So, I was lacto-ovo vegetarian for over a decade before I started trying to be vegan. The lacto-ovo choice was partly squeamishness over eating dead bodies, partly that I didn't want to eat killed animals/I didn't want them killed for me to eat, and also for what I'd read about the environment. But I was pretty much clueless about animal suffering.In the spring of 1988 when I read Diet for a New America by John Robbins the facts hit me like a ton of bricks. I had no idea farmed animals suffered and I had no idea dairy and egg animals were eventually killed too. The book talks about plant based vegan eating concentrating 1/3 on animals, 1/3 on the environment and 1/3 on health.
It took me 6 1/2 years, until fall 1994, to go "fully" vegan because I was so addicted to dairy and eggs; I kept lapsing with them. It was very easy for me to immediately give up honey, wool, leather, silk, etc. though it did take me a few months to find shoes that would work for me.
I always said I went vegan 85% for animal rights/animal suffering, 10% for the environment and world hunger issues, and 5% for health. But the truth is I'd never really be vegan if it wasn't for the animals. I do it for animal suffering/rights issues.
And, I am a vegan purist. I know nobody in society is 100% vegan. My car tires have animal products, as do the trucks that transport some of my food to me. But I won't buy, for myself or usually anyone else, any item (food or otherwise) that has any animal products. It helps that many products now have the vegan seal, and I truly don't mind reading labels. I'd read them anyway to check for other ingredients I might not want to consume because I don't like them or for health reasons.
I've helped many people go vegan and a couple people go vegetarian. Almost 100% of the time, I educate those who've expressed interest, those who ask me questions. Ask, and they'll hear. ;-) I start where they are. If they're interested in health vs. animals vs. the environment, etc. I'll give them information that applies to their interests. But I always make it clear I'm vegan for animal rights/animal suffering reasons, and so they know that's where I'm coming from. I have done a lot of outreach work but in recent years it's been mostly informal: one to one with people I know or people who message me with questions. I suggest books, films, websites, etc. and try to answer all their questions or refer them to people who can.
More later, I'm sure. ;-)
Great idea for a thread.
Oh, and for me, once I read DFANA, I couldn't live with myself without being vegan. I am so happy being vegan. It's the best decision I've ever made.
Val and Farrah and Lee and Lisa, I love what you have written here. This is a great topic, Farrah, thanks for starting it.Farrah, I think it's fine to be nit-picky if it feels good to you ! I think that's one important thing to realize about going vegan ... is that not everyone is going to feel the same about every situation. Therefore ...
When something feels icky, you have the right to be nit-picky!!!
LOL.
Know what I mean !?!
You are just honoring yourself.
But .. for me ... in some social situations, it feels MORE ICKY to be nit-picky, than it does to eat the ICKY non-vegan thing.
For example ... sometimes my boyfriend (who is omni) brings home groceries (usually some kind of frozen food like chik'n nuggets or veggie burgers) that he thinks are vegan. Like Val, I dutifully check the ingredients of each box before it goes into our freezer, and sometimes I find non-vegan stuff ... egg whites, or honey, or whey, or casein ... things that I don't want in my food! I used to tell Jeff right away that this is not vegan, and please don't buy it again.
But ... unfortunately Jeff would often freak out and do something like banging a metal spatula against his head and saying how he's such a loser for "buying the wrong stuff." OK, we have some mental issues in our house! Who doesn't, right? LOL. So ... nowadays I don't bring it up right away, I just try to point out the things that are vegan in the grocery store, next time we go together. My boyfriend is such a total sweetie and he tries so hard to make everything vegan for me. But he's got very bad eyesight, and he's NOT detail-oriented, and he's terrible at reading the tiny little ingredients on a frozen food package. He does 90% of the grocery shopping and 90% of the cooking at our house. Even though he's omni, his intention is to get everything vegan, so we both can eat it. And normally he does "get it right."
So .. given the situation, I have learned it's not so important to make a big deal about something non-vegan here and there, especially when the person buying it simply made an honest mistake. It's not like he's bringing home some prime rib and saying "OOPS."
Especially because of my boyfriend's potential reaction, it would feel WAY MORE ICKY for me to make a big deal about the small detail of the non-vegan ingredient, than for me to simply accept it. I can deal with the food being not always 100% vegan as I would have liked; I cannot deal with Jeff having a mental breakdown (after he tried so hard!!), and me knowing that I caused it by being nit-picky.
Know what I mean?
So ... there are so many psychological things about going vegan, and the exceptions that we are and are not willing to make in different situations. I have many more examples and things I would like to discuss. On another day !! :)
Thanks again for starting this thread, Farrah.
Oh, and I wanted to clarify why it is that my boyfriend does 90% of the grocery shopping and cooking at our house.The reason is ... left to my own devices, I just eat fruit, cereal, veggie burgers with frozen vegetables (heated in the microwave), Cliff bars, things like that ... all 100% vegan, of course. :) Although I love to cook and bake, I just have too much going on and don't have time ... at least I don't, now that I live in San Francisco. (I remember, living in Texas, I used to cook a lot, but THERE IS SO MUCH HAPPENING in San Francisco, and I don't want to miss it ... so I no longer have time for grocery shopping and cooking. In general.)
Jeff is not happy eating the way I do ... no muss, no fuss, no cooking. :) No dirty pots and pans and no dirty stove, either, ha ha ha! Nope, he doesn't like living like that. He wants to cook REAL MEALS, and he's got the time and energy for it, so that's why he's always out grocery shopping and cooking things in the kitchen. :) If Jeff were to disappear all of a sudden, I wouldn't start cooking again, I'm sure of it ... I would just go back to the way I ate before, which only required cutting up fresh fruits and vegetables to eat, and pouring some soy milk over cereal, and popping things in the microwave, etc.
Meanwhile I am very appreciative of the fact that I do have a boyfriend who cooks for me, and that he does his very best to make it all vegan, because he knows how important it is to me. :) I do enjoy having REAL COOKED MEALS; I just know that I wouldn't prioritize doing all of that work to make it happen, all by myself, if it were just me.
Rachel wrote: "When something feels icky, you have the right to be nit-picky!!!"Exactly! And it feels icky to me to eat even a smidgen of something (or put it on my body or support it by spending money on it, etc.) so that's the main reason I'm a vegan purist.
I remember one time a vegan purist friend was making dinner for a bunch of us and we found out after the fact the the vegetable cubed broth used had gelatin in it. The two of us were so grossed out, though I don't think the other vegans cared that much, and of course the omnivores didn't mind a bit.
Also, in my case, though this is not why I try to be 100% vegan, but it's an issue, I have some omnivorous friends and maybe one vegetarian friend who, if I ate something not quite vegan, for instance, would consider me a hypocrite. But I do it for me, not for what others might think.
For me, being vegan PRIMARILY MEANS doing your best to avoid meat (which includes fish), dairy, and eggs in your diet because the meat / fish, dairy, and egg industries are the ones that cause the most harm to the most animals around the world. I also avoid honey, although I'm not sure if it has as big of an impact. I agree with Lisa ... in my opinion, if it weren't for the suffering caused to animals, there would be no reason to be vegan.
For example: HEALTH.
I am just as healthy now, being my version of vegan, as I was before I was vegan. I think I would have continued to be just as healthy if I were someone who were to eat a cup of yogurt a few times per week, and some salmon a couple times a week, and an egg a couple times a week, etc etc ... as long as I was also eating lots of fiber and fresh fruits and vegetables and whole grains and beans and all sorts of other great VEGAN stuff. Therefore, I think I would still be very healthy while also including small amounts of meat, eggs, and dairy in my diet. I'd be healthy, most likely, but NOT VEGAN.
SO! For me, health is NOT a reason to go vegan.
As for the environment, I think that's a very strong reason to DRAMATICALLY CUT BACK on your meat consumption, but I don't think that you would need to go 100% vegan to be an environmentalist. For example, I am an environmentalist, and because of that, I have never owned a car and have gotten around by walking and bicycling and taking public transit, almost all my life. But ... even though I am an environmentalist, and I do my best to travel by more eco-friendly modes ... I do sometimes travel by air, which is NOT eco-friendly AT ALL ... and sometimes I do travel by car (renting a car or riding in someone else's car, etc).
To be eco-friendly, I think it's also important to cut back on animal products (which I did, four years before I went vegan, as soon as I found out about the environmental impacts ... because I was an environmentalist). But as an environmentalist, it's not important to eliminate animal products COMPLETELY, is it? You could be an environmentalist and say "Hey, I only eat meat twice per month, and that's way more eco-friendly than 90% of the population in the U.S.,* so there you go. I'm doing my part."
* Just making up that 90% number.
So, no, in my opinion, you don't have to be totally vegan to be an environmentalist. However, I do believe you should seriously CUT DOWN on your meat consumption, and your car driving, and your airplane flying, and your disposable product buying, and all sorts of things. If you consistently do your best to cut down on all of these things that harm the environment, I think you are being a "good environmentalist" and you get a GOLD STAR on all of that. Hurray. But of course you wouldn't necessarily be vegan.
By the way .. these are all just my opinions, I want to make clear. I am very glad to hear from other people who have other opinions, and I don't think you're stupid or bad or anything negative at all, just because you have a different opinion from me. So when I put ideas out there ... although often I say things quite emphatically ... this is simply "WHAT I THINK." :) It is not and has never been meant to be "WHAT YOU SHOULD THINK" or anything at all akin to that.
And as Farrah said, my opinions will change over time (as I hope other people's opinions do, too). As a result, I don't believe what I think now, is the END-ALL BE-ALL of anything.
Now ... why I am vegan? I am an environmentalist, and I am very health-conscious, BUT !!!! Neither one of those is the reason I'm vegan. Because, as described above, I don't think you need to be vegan to be health-conscious or an environmentalist. I'd say you ought to be "close to vegan" but not actually vegan.
I am vegan because of the suffering of the animals used for food, which I think is totally unnecessary given that I live in a society that has the wealth and science and technology needed to provide me with 100% vegan food that can satisfy every nutritional need that I have.
Now .... that being said ... I am willing to make exceptions for food, in some social situations (for example, what I described with my boyfriend above). And, on rare occasions, I've also made exceptions simply because there was no vegan option available to me at that moment.
The funny example I like to use (one I've talked about on the forums here) is that I have purchased and eaten a few non-vegan donuts during the 6+ years since I've been vegan. This could sound like a terrible oxymoron ... as in ... how can you call yourself vegan and yet you knowingly purchased a donut for 65 cents that was surely not vegan? Well ... I don't find it to be a big deal, given how 100% vegan my food is the rest of the time. And it's not like I'm going around saying that people should eat non-vegan donuts because they taste better (they don't, at least not to me, LOL!). I would have 100% preferred to have a VEGAN DONUT, but unfortunately, sometimes, there are no vegan donuts available. I realize donuts are bad for you, so they're not essential, but at that moment, sometimes it's the sugar rush / pick-me-up you need, and the way I see it .... it's the fault of the NON-VEGAN WORLD, that there is no vegan donut there. Every donut shop should be selling vegan donuts, right?
So it's not that I'm not vegan enough ... it's that the world hasn't gotten vegan enough yet. That's the way I see it.
But guess what ... I am finding vegan donuts in more and more places, which I happily buy (although .. not very often, because vegan donuts are very bad for you, too, and I am health-conscious, remember!!! LOL) .... so I feel that my work with Vegan Outreach, including the monetary donations I make, and the leafletting I have done ... is really making a difference. More people (like me) are demanding vegan products, and more vegan products are being made available. Soon it will be that vegan donuts will always be available. And if vegan donuts were always available (wherever donuts are being sold), then I'd never eat non-vegan donuts.
That, for me, is an important distinction. If someone actually chooses non-vegan food when vegan food is available ... well, I don't understand how that could be a vegan choice. But if the only reason you're eating something non-vegan is because nothing vegan was available ... that, to me, is a whole other situation.
Lisa, I know you have said many times, about all the efforts you make, to be sure that you always have 100% vegan food available. And .... I must say, I make a lot of effort, too ... but sometimes there are situations where nothing 100% vegan is available. I'm willing to accept it once in awhile. Typically it would feel more icky for me to go hungry, for what I feel is simply "dogma" and "inflexibility" ... than to simply eat whatever is there (choosing the most vegan-looking selections, for example in a buffet situation). Although the available food may not have been 100% vegan, I don't see it as a huge set-back ... it's not my fault that whomever provided the food was clueless about the suffering of animals and the need to go vegan. So I just blend in and eat my vegan-looking food, and then proceed about my vegan life, business as usual.
Another interesting thing on the Donut Debate. (This is my inner debate, mind you!!) While I have purchased very few non-vegan donuts over the past six-plus years that I've been vegan ... it has always been at Mom and Pop donut shops where the donuts are very cheap. Since going vegan, I have NEVER, EVER bought a non-vegan donut at gourmet place like DYNAMO donuts in San Francisco that brags about their gourmet flavors and their organic milk and all of that. And they charge $3.00 to $4.00 per donut !!! This sickens me beyond belief. The whole beauty of a donut is that it is dirt cheap and tastes good. OKAY, when you make vegan donuts, I understand, you're using higher quality ingredients and it cost more .... I'm fine, I'm willing to pay that. But I'm not willing to pay $3.00 or $4.00 for a donut that is so pretentious and makes such a big deal about itself ... when it's not even vegan !!! HELLO! It really gets under my skin. I have been to DYNAMO donuts many times to see if they are offering vegan donuts, and still, NO DICE. The first time I tried it, I even waited in line, and got all the way to the front counter, and asked the girl at the register "Do you have any vegan donuts?" and the girl just ROLLED HER EYES, and said "NO." Oooh, what jerks. Obviously I DID NOT then fork over $3.00 or $4.00 for one of their "organic" (MY A$$!!!!!) donuts. LOL!
Now when I go by, I just snoop around and look at the menu board and see if they are offering any vegan donuts, and so far I don't see any. JERKS !!!! (LOL)
So ... I think this is very interesting because ... if I buy a non-vegan donut from a Mom and Pop ... surely they are not using organic milk and so ... given my values ... you'd think it would be WORSE to get a non-vegan donut from the Mom and Pop place, than to get a non-vegan donut from this organic BUT NON-VEGAN and totally pretentious Dynamo donut place. Right ???
BUT ... here we come back to the "Does it feel icky for you?" factor. It feels wayyyyyyyyy more UNFORGIVEABLY icky for me to buy a non-vegan donut from that frickin' Dynamo Donuts place. I'm sorry, I just feel like those guys should TOTALLY KNOW BETTER. Don't you think so ??? What with all their progressive talk about organic milk and what not. They should at least be "with it" enough to offer some vegan donut options!!! Also, the price of their donuts !!! $3.00 or $4.00 per donut !!! I don't want to spend that much money on something that gives me the creeps.
By contrast ... the Mom and Pop donut shop ...
A) These people are typically recent immigrants who seem to be struggling to survive; I have a lot of sympathy for these people, and I don't think they have a clue what "vegan" means (I don't tell them I'm vegan, obviously!!! But if I were to ask them "Do you have any vegan donuts?" I'm sure they would have NO CLUE), and
B) it's only 65 cents ... I'm not putting very much money into buying something that I personally disagree with. Obviously I disagree with the fact that the donuts are NOT vegan, but if it's the only thing available at the moment, my sympathies for the Mom and Pop shop can sometimes override my ickiness about the fact that the donut is not vegan. And since it's only like 65 cents once every couple years ... I mean, it's extremely RARE that I buy and eat a non-vegan donut ... I don't feel like I'm contributing significantly to consumer demand for these things.
So yes ... people can easily call me a hypocrite, but I don't care. In the end ... it's all about what makes you feel icky and what doesn't. As another way of looking at it ... I am very nit-picky at that pretentious Dynamo Donuts place (NO MERCY for those guys!! They should know better!!!) ... but at the Mom and Pop donut shop, I'm a little more flexible.
Another thing about this ... I think it's good to be very strict for maybe a year or two, when you first go vegan, so that you get the hang of it. I did that (except for a couple very specific exceptions that I do recall during the first year). But ... now that I have been vegan for a long time, I feel very confident and comfortable in my vegan skin ... and so ... it there's a tiny bit of non-vegan-ness here and there, I don't mind. I feel I've got the whole vegan picture down pat. Therefore, the small stuff ... when it happens ... really is small stuff, and I can see that very easily.
Mod
Oh, is Tim Horton the owner of Dynamo donuts?I don't know what their ingredients are, I just know that they proudly display their organic cow's milk (showing it off like it's such an awesome thing). So far I haven't seen any vegan donuts for sale there.
They do have vegan donuts for sale at the Ferry Building (Peebles donuts), and if I remember ... I think they cost from $2.50 to $3.50 per donut ... they are organic, AND THEY ARE VEGAN. I don't mind paying all that money for a vegan donut. But for a non-vegan donut? Fuhgettaboutit!!!
Normally, when I'm buying donuts for the office ... I buy the six-pack of vegan donuts from Whole Foods, which is about $5.00 or $6.00 ... and that comes out to about $1 per vegan donut. This is very good !!!!
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Tim Horton's is Canada's most well know chain/franchise of donut shops. They are all over the place here.
Oh, ha ha! I had never heard of Tim Horton ... sorry, I guess it is because I have never been to Canada. Someday I will have to make the trip, although it's such a big place, I wouldn't know where to go first! Do you know if Tim Horton's makes any vegan donuts?
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Oh, I wonder if there is any place selling vegan donuts in Canada? Do you have Whole Foods up there?And I don't mean to distract people from the original topic ... which is "What does being vegan mean to you."
My apologies if my Donut Debate has been too much of a distraction. (Oral diarrhea strikes again!!!)
I love the topic Farrah has posted.
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Rachel wrote: "Someday I will have to make the trip, although it's such a big place, I wouldn't know where to go first! "Vancouver, Toronto, Victoria, Banff and Jasper parks in Alberta, so many places in Canada are worth seeing! And many cities are very vegan friendly.
Funny, Rachel, I'm the opposite. The longer I'm vegan, the more I'm firm about everything I consume (in my mouth or otherwise) being vegan. It helps to live in San Francisco and it helps that I'm organized and always have vegan on the go snack foods available. I wouldn't want to go hungry on the rare occasion it might happen that where I am there is no vegan food available.
My favorite donut place is Mighty O in Seattle. 100% of their donuts are vegan, and they're 7 blocks away from the house of a good friend of mine.http://www.mightyo.com/
Even my friends (all omnivores) love them and it's a regular place for them to get treats.
Lisa wrote: "Funny, Rachel, I'm the opposite. The longer I'm vegan, the more I'm firm about everything I consume (in my mouth or otherwise) being vegan. It helps to live in San Francisco and it helps that I'm organized and always have vegan on the go snack foods available. I wouldn't want to go hungry on the rare occasion that might happen. "Yes, I think that's awesome.
I love that we have different ways of going about things and totally love and respect each other, as long-time friends !
I have no desire to be 100% vegan purist until the world changes such that 100% vegan items are always available for me. Unlike you, Lisa, I'm not so organized, ha! In fact, I'm rather spur of the moment and Fly by Night ! Ha! Also, I am much more involved in professional organizations where omni food is served and everyone is expected to eat it ... I can't believe how we can be in a group of 100 people, and I'm the only vegan !!! ... and no one has thought to make a vegan option available!!! (how many times have I had to pick the cheese off of a sandwich, but what am I going to do about the mayonnaise? BLEH!) ... and I'm much more involved with my omni family than you are, and I live with an omni person, and you live by yourself ... all of these things make a huge difference.
I know a lot of vegans who would not even consider dating and living with an omni ... and I think part of this is because they know that it will be very hard to stay a vegan purist when sharing their life with an omni. I think, living with and dating an omni, you need to be flexible sometimes, otherwise you may drive your omni a wee bit crazy. (Speaking only for my own experience !!)
Oh, and ... I lived by myself for 2 and a half years, as a vegan, before I moved in with Jeff. Exceptions to a vegan purist diet, for me, were much fewer, back then. So I do feel it's much easier to be a vegan purist if you are living alone or living with other vegans. The main exceptions that happen for me now are when Jeff brings home something non-vegan by mistake. And also the times when I get together with family, which is about once a year. (When dining with family, I just do my best to get the most vegan-looking things from the buffet ... knowing that some of these vegetables probably have butter in them, or chicken broth, or who know what. I don't ask.)
Also, back then, it just so happens that I was in charge of the food at the professional organization, so there was always an awesome vegan option. :)
Rachel wrote: "lso, back then, it just so happens that I was in charge of the food at the professional organization, so there was always an awesome vegan option. :) "Lucky everybody, in my opinion. Yum!
Yes, and the vegan option was always very popular !! Now when I go there, and when sometimes they have not given any thought as to how to provide something vegan for the people ... I am exasperated. Especially because I used to coordinate the food and I know that it is very possible and do-able to make sure there is a vegan option (I mean REAL options, not "oh, here, you can just pull the cheese out of the sandwich") at these functions. Oh well.And Lisa, I want to say how much I appreciate that you love and accept me even though I am not a vegan purist in the same way that you are ! Thank you for that!
And also ... as you know, although I might call myself vegan in front of you guys ... and I inwardly consider myself vegan .... I don't actually go around telling strangers / waitstaff / etc that I'm vegan at restaurants ... especially if the setting is such that I may be actually consuming something non-vegan. For example, if my family is eating at a buffet, I don't walk in and say "I'm vegan !" to the cashier and then proceed to eat vegetables that may have been cooked in butter. I don't advertise being vegan at all, in that kind of context. It would just confuse people.
In fact, I don't usually use the word "vegan" when describing myself, although when people hear me say that I don't eat dairy, meat, or eggs, then they often say something like "Oh, so you're vegan?" And then I usually say something like "Well, yes, sort of, but unlike many other vegans, I'm not 100% strict about some of the smaller ingredients."
It's not that I don't want to align withself with the vegan movement, it's just that I don't want to confuse people, because there are lots of vegan purists like Lisa who will not put up with non-vegan ingredients in their food at all. And I don't want to give people the idea that all vegans are okay with small amounts of non-vegan stuff in their food, you know? Actually I'm not okay with it, either, I'm just willing to accept it / tolerate it, depending on the circumstance.
Vegan for me is compassion, living the Golden Rule, a way to decrease suffering, not wanting to participate in anything that I can't stand to look at or even think about, mercy and living my values.Becoming vegan was a process of learning what happens to the animals. It was taking off the blinders. When I see animal products now, I see suffering and pain whereas I used to see food or clothing.
Having said this, I'm not a purist. I learned from Vegan Outreach that every situation or conversation is an opportunity to help animals. It's not about how I feel or what I think but what will have a positive effect on animals.
To give a concrete example, if it was about expressing my values and beliefs I would tell everyone that they should go vegan. I used to do this but I saw that it shuts many people down. So now I meet people where they are at, not where I wish they were at. This might mean encouraging them to eat less meat or try being vegan 1 day a week, or whatever.
When I shop, I buy vegan products, but when I'm with non vegans I think about showing them how do-able this lifestyle is. For example, if I know that the bread in a restaurant has a smidgen of animal products in it, I may not want to convey that I can't eat it. I'd rather someone order a veggie burger even if the bread isn't vegan than give up on the idea because the bread isn't vegan and order a meat burger. It depends on the situation.
I think it is about what helps animals and not about conveying how vegan I am or how much I know or how easy it is for me to be vegan or how grossed out I am by animal products.
The following is all VO lessons: The only people in a position to save animals in the future are those still eating them, so I want to do what will encourage others to take positive steps for the animals.
That's why I leaflet. In one hour, you can give out 100 or more booklets. This will likely change 1 person which means in 1 hour you can double the number of animals that you save with every action you do for the rest of your life. And since I leaflet people who are about 36 years younger than myself and have many years ahead as consumers, it more than doubles the number of animals I save. It's an amazing thing - the number of animals that can be saved with outreach.
For me it is about reducing suffering. This is more important to me than my vegan identity, which is a huge part of who I am.
Now I apologize if I shouldn't be doing this in this forum, but many great non profits such as Vegan Outreach and Mercy for Animals are having matching donation challenges during December, so It's a great time to donate, and it could even be a holiday present to donate in someone's name. Hope this was ok to say!
Rachel, Not only do I accept you but I am grateful to you and respect you for how you handle your veganism. (I'll use the word.)
Nettie, Well said.
For me it also boils down to being compassionate and doing/acting in whatever way is most likely to help the animals.
I gave this month to Vegan Outreach and Mercy for Animals to help with their matching donations, along with a couple other groups. There are hundreds of such groups that are valuable contributors to reducing animal suffering.
I've also volunteered for Vegan Outreach (http://www.veganoutreach.org/) which is one of my favorite orgs.
Nettie this is great: The following is all VO lessons: The only people in a position to save animals in the future are those still eating them, so I want to do what will encourage others to take positive steps for the animals."
Farrah wrote: "Nettie this is great: The following is all VO lessons: The only people in a position to save animals in the future are those still eating them, so I want to do what will encourage others to take positive steps for the animals."
I also was going to say something about VO's quote because it is so true. I love Vegan Outreach.
Oh, I did want to add that what's right for me, I don't push on others. When I ask in restaurants if something is vegan or whether there is honey in the bread, I make clear to any non-vegans present that not every vegan is as stringent as I am, and that it doesn't have be to all or nothing anyway, that the truth is that every little bit helps. Eating the occasional vegan meal with me, eating less meat, dairy, eggs, doing Meatless Mondays, buying a cloth vs. leather purse, whatever. Reducing animal consumption = reducing animal suffering. ETA: I also add that for me, it's easy to be vegan, because that's the truth.
I often say that too--being vegan has been easy for us. A lot of people ask us, "isn't it hard? Don't you miss meat and cheese?" and I always thought I would miss those things but I don't. I think the only thing I miss, (ironically Rachel) is Entemann's chocolate covered doughnuts. Which is so strange because if I ate two of those things a year it was a lot and THAT is the one thing I crave! I do tell waiters, waitress, restaurant owners, etc that I am vegan. I feel like I am part of that whole "creating a demand for vegan options" and an opportunity to teach people about vegansim.
I actually told a waitress at Cheesecake Factory the other night that I had a lethal allergy to dairy and eggs because she looked REALLY confused when I said that I was vegan. But she got the whole, "I could die if I eat dairy or eggs" and made sure that my flatbread and salad had no dairy or eggs in the making process as "Cheesecake Factory takes people with allergies very seriously".
NOW...keep in mind..if we hadn't just waited an hour for a table, and if the waitress wasn't completely frazzled and looked like she needed a drink, and if we could hear each other over the blasting music, I would have been more patient and explained the meaning of what being a vegan was. Since the scenario was different, I figured fear of my death would get her to take my no meat/eggs/dairy request pretty seriously.
(Not that I have a lethal allergy and NO...you shouldn't lie LOL)
Like Nettie, I do ask people to elaborate when they say they can't be veg*n and answer any questions they have, and I do end the conversation if I sense outright hostility. I'm not eager to argue. (Sorry, another thread, I think.)Farrah, I've had to lie before. If I go somewhere and ask if there is egg in the pasta, whether or not I say I'm vegan, I'm usually told no, but if I say I'm allergic to egg and can go into anaphylactic shock, all of a sudden, yes, there is egg in the pasta. *sigh* I just wish restaurants would be honest and more knowledgeable. Sometimes they don't deliberately lie; they're just misinformed.
Oh Farrah, have you tried vegan donuts with chocolate icing? Like the ones they have at Whole Foods? I think they are very good and hopefully they will satisfy your craving.The difference with me is that I don't actually crave non-vegan donuts. I want all VEGAN DONUTS ... but in the interests of full disclosure / being perfectly honest, I will say that I have eating a few non-vegan donuts over the past 6+ years. This is only because no vegan donuts were available. And I certainly wouldn't promote or advocate that people should eat non-vegan donuts.
Here's an article that I came across a few weeks ago, which sort of rubbed me the wrong way.
http://scoliurbanyogi.blogspot.com/20...
In some ways, this lady is similar to me, as it sounds like she makes a big effort to make vegan stuff ... but what I don't like is that she promotes eating EGGS ... and it sounds like she "treats herself" to some eggs about twice per week. She calls herself a flexi-vegan, but if she really is eating eggs twice per week, to me, that simply means she's an ovo-vegetarian. Nothing wrong with that, I think she's doing an awesome job of reducing suffering for animals, if her diet is all vegan except for those 2 eggs per week. But to me, you're not really vegan if you're saying how eggs taste so good and how you want to eat them 2 times per week.
Now, because I have admitted to eating a few non-vegan donuts since I've been vegan, you might say I'm promoting people to eat non-vegan donuts, but actually I'm not. The truth is I hope that VEGAN DONUTS will be available for everyone. I LOVE vegan donuts. I have fantasies about approaching the folks in those Mom and Pop shops and seeing if I can do an internship with them and figure out how we can start making some vegan donuts, too.
I went to Ronald's donuts in Las Vegas, which has tons of really awesome, really cheap donuts that they say are all vegan. I paid $40 for a taxi ride to take me there and back, so I could get these donuts. I got a whole big box of donuts ... Long John, twist, maple bar, soy cream eclair, apple fritter, etc ... for less than $4.00. My boyfriend Jeff was really skeptical because he said they taste exactly like regular donuts. He thinks they're regular donuts, and when people go in and ask for vegan donuts, the lady behind the counter just says "YEAH, they're all vegan !" I don't know. Obviously they could be up for some serious lawsuits from people with food allergies, if that's the case. But assuming the donuts really are vegan, I have a fantasy about taking time off from work and doing an internship first at Roland's donuts in Las Vegas, and then bringing my knowledge back to the Mom and Pop donut shops in San Francisco, and doing internships at those places, and getting them up to speed with how to make awesome, really cheap vegan donuts.
Vegan donuts for everybody who likes donuts! That's what I want to see readily available all around the world! Because I really do love donuts. Although they are bad for you and I rarely eat them. :) Strange how that is, but it is true. :)
Bottom line is ... I just want to make clear that I'm not trying to promote people eating non-vegan donuts. I was only confessing that indeed I have eaten a few non-vegan donuts over the past 6+ years. For me, it doesn't change the fact that I am normally strict about my vegan diet in my daily life. With the caveat that of course I do "ease up a bit" and am more flexible in family situations, etc.
Yes that is true that some staff are just simply misinformed. I read on a blog somewhere that no one at Starbucks could say if the Gingerbread Latte mix actually had any dairy in it. And the writer called Starbucks HQ too! When I went to Food For Thought in Williamsburg, (I did a blogpost about it) the owner was SO helpful and of course they offer vegan options BUT even HE didn't know if his own chef used butter in a particular dish I wanted. So he had to ask, and there was butter in it. Howard (owner) made a note to himself about being more informed of what dishes are vegan that night.
Some restaurants put butter in EVERYTHING too so it is hard to discern if it really is vegan.
I am glad I am not the only who has lied..lol..but it does make things a bit easier when you want to keep as pure as possible. I mean it's not like I am faking pregnancy to get a seat on the bus or anything, lol.
Rachel wrote: "Oh Farrah, have you tried vegan donuts with chocolate icing? Like the ones they have at Whole Foods? I think they are very good and hopefully they will satisfy your craving.No...I have not tried to any vegan donuts. Honestly..lol..I really don't need a donut of any kind but I know there are some delicious vegan treats out there. There is a bakery in Philly that I want to try that is supposed to have amazing vegan baked goods. I forget the name of it. I read so much on the internet that I get my sources all confused.
Farrah wrote: "I mean it's not like I am faking pregnancy to get a seat on the bus or anything."I agree. All we're doing is trying to take care of ourselves to make sure the food we're getting is food we want to eat. Seems reasonable to me.
Rachel, If you're serious about vegan donut learning in order to help the typical mom & pop donut store make some of their own, I'd suggest Mighty O donuts in Seattle. They're so much better than any other donuts I've eaten and they have so many flavors, many more than are listed on their website, in fact.At the very least, if you're in Seattle, a city that has many veg*n restaurants, make sure Mighty O is one of your stops. Several times.
;-)
http://www.mightyo.com/
Lisa wrote: "At the very least, if you're in Seattle, a city that has many veg*n restaurants, make sure Mighty O is one of your stops. Several times.;-)"
Yes, Lisa, someday I would like to go Seattle! I have never been.
But I don't know when I'll ever go ... I am not really into traveling unless it's to visit family / friends ... so that's one of the reasons I've never been to Seattle (I don't know anyone there). If I have extra money, I'd rather donate it to Vegan Outreach, Animal Place, KALW, KPFA, Transform, SF Bicycle Coalition, and the many other charities I donate to. If traveling were FREE and not harmful to the environment, I'd do it all the time, but unfortunately these days ... I see every dollar I spend, as less money I can donate to my favorite causes. I've tried traveling "just for fun" and I came home wishing I had donated the money to charity instead. Whereas ... when I visit my family, I do it as economically as possible, and I don't regret the money spent. It feels "worth it" when it's for friends / family somehow.
But yeah, about the donuts ... if I could get the finances together, I would love to become a full-time vegan donut entrepreneur!!!
Farrah wrote: "Yes that is true that some staff are just simply misinformed. I read on a blog somewhere that no one at Starbucks could say if the Gingerbread Latte mix actually had any dairy in it. And the writer..."Farrah, about that donut shop ... Ronald's donuts in Las Vegas ... it is known throughout "The Internet World" as having the best vegan donuts. This is why I made all the effort to go there. But ... when you get there, you see nothing in writing about any of the donuts being vegan. It looks like a total Hole in the Wall, Mom and Pop shop. Nothing gourmet or fancy about it. It's very strange ... so you go in, a bit surprised, and you say "Do you have any vegan donuts?" And the lady behind the counter says "Oh yes! All of the donuts on these shelves are vegan, including these chocolate eclairs right here, which are filled with soy cream."
So ... by her mentioning the soy cream, it sounds like she has a CLUE, and being that there is all this hype about the donuts being vegan, you want to believe her, but .. it is very strange. But my point is that if those really are vegan donuts, then I want to do an internship with her and learn how to make them, and bring the technology back to the Bay Area.
Here is a link to Ronald's donuts, just FYI.
http://www.yelp.com/biz/ronalds-donut...
And Lisa, if I am able to dedicate myself to being a vegan donut intern / entrepreneur someday (right now it's just a fantasy, of course!!!), Mighty O in Seattle would definitely be a place I would visit ! (For purely scientific research purposes. ha ha.)
Don wrote: "I starting eating a plant based diet a long time ago for health reasons. I made the jump to veganism because for the animals. Like others I'm vegan in lifestyle and buy vegan soap and toiletries..."Welcome to the discussion Don.
I was just thinking more about the health thing.
If you have got some major health problem, such as diabetes or heart disease, and you eat just a regular Standard American Diet ... I think going vegan could actually HELP YOU with your health problems ... and in that case, going vegan would actually be FOR HEALTH, wouldn't it???
In fact, I know someone who has gone vegan for health reasons alone. It sounds like it's easier for him to just go vegan and cut out ALL animal products, rather than to go mostly vegan and eat animal products only very rarely. This is what Dr. Neal Bernard (Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine) has said in some of his books and lectures, too.
So ... although the "health" reason wasn't my reason for going vegan, I can see how it would be, for other people.
Mod
Rachel, I happen to adore donuts too but since they're deep fried, I haven't attempted to make them myself.
Let's hope that vegan donuts take the world by storm so we can all enjoy them!
Lee wrote: "Let's hope that vegan donuts take the world by storm so we can all enjoy them! ..."Amen to that !
Lee, if we can do some research together, this could be a reason for me to go to Canada. I have heard you are a wonderful and resourceful cook !
Mod
Rachel, I've made quite a few trips to Seattle over the years. One of my closest childhood friends moved up there to get her PhD when she was 24 and stayed. And she lives 7 blocks from Mighty O, so... ;-)
Rachel wrote: "Well, yes, sort of, but unlike many other vegans, I'm not 100% strict about some of the smaller ingredients." Rachel,
I like this answer! Since we share the similar views in this matter, I've often thought how I should clarify it.
PS: Lisa,
I finally figured out the quoting thing, woohoo!!! LOL
Lee wrote: "Oh and I meant to say, if you ever come to Canada, there are loads of vegan restaurants in Toronto. I would be happy to feed you too."
Toronto is the only place I've visited in Canada, and I love it. I've been there twice. I can't remember the names of any restaurants we visited, but I remember it was really easy for me to eat there.
(And I know about Tim Horton's because I've been a hockey fan since 1970 despite the fact that I'm a native Washingtonian and we didn't have a team until 1974.)
Toronto is the only place I've visited in Canada, and I love it. I've been there twice. I can't remember the names of any restaurants we visited, but I remember it was really easy for me to eat there.
(And I know about Tim Horton's because I've been a hockey fan since 1970 despite the fact that I'm a native Washingtonian and we didn't have a team until 1974.)
Is it:
A social movement to abolish animal slavery?
A plant-based diet for health reasons?
A diet based on compassionate plant-based eating because you love all animals?
A cool, hip thing to try?
A lifestyle change?
A helpless challenge that will never amount to anything?
A personal choice and just that...no need for further involvement in a cause?
These are just ideas I have read about. You could be one, all, some, or none... And you can change your opinion and philosophy of what veganism means in your life.