Goodreads Ireland discussion

This is the discussion thread for Let the Great World Spin. I look forward to discussing it with you all, and reading your view and comments.

Regards,

Declan. :)

I just my copy a little while ago. I have high hopes for this, so far. I like the the flow of the narrative. It reads with the voice of a good conversationalist and the pages are turning easily.

I'm not sure about Corrigan, though. I'm worried that is character might be a little overcooked.

I read this last year. I liked the individual stories, but felt the common thread of the highwire act was tenuous. It was essentially a collection of short stories for me.

I'll be happy with that if all of the stories are this enjoyable.

Just finished and I actually really enjoyed this book. I loved that this book made me feel fully immersed in the stories of each character yet there was still enough plot to keep the book interesting. I enjoyed the way he vividly depicted not only the characters but the scene around them. He seemed to breathe life into each page with his detail. I was blown away at the way he was able to take on a new "voice" and tone for each character allowing them to not only come alive but made them appear so real that I could have sworn I knew some of them personally. Although I see where people are coming from when they feel this story was more of a book of short stories I really appreciated the way they were connected not only by the tightrope walker but also through the two degrees of separation sort of angle. It kept me guessing and excited to turn the page to figure out who knew who and how. I don't think this is on my top 10 books but I am glad I read it and would recommend it to a friend.

I haven't been reading too much lately, but I picked it up again today and read a few more pages. I really enjoy the writers style, and I agree with Sarah. Every time I start a new story it reads with a completely new voice. This gives them more substance and makes and and makes them appear more realistic.

The characters, so far, are more interconnected than I've been led to believe. I'm thinking specifically about Lara Liveman and the Corrigans. (view spoiler)[ Lara was in the car the rear-ended John Corrigan's van which lead to his and Jazzlyn's death. Lara even showed up at his funeral. (hide spoiler)] Had it not been for Gloria's story nestled neatly between these, this would have read more like a typical novel.

I am reading this book for the second time. This time I am reading it more slowly to appreciate the writing style. Somehow I didn't notice before how unique his style is -the tense changes, the voice changes, phrases instead of sentences. It all comes together to create such vivid images, emotional responses and characters.

I love the way the characters connect sometimes in very subtle ways. To get philosophical, it reminds me how we all connect in strange and subtle ways.

I find (monk) Corrigan to be the most intriguing and challenging. I keep on wanting to put a diagnosis on him but then that is too easy a response. I relate well to the older brother. Must be my years as a social worker.

Laura wrote: "I am reading this book for the second time. This time I am reading it more slowly to appreciate the writing style. Somehow I didn't notice before how unique his style is -the tense changes, the vo..."

So far, the Corrigans' story has been my favourite by miles. I do love McCann's style. He changes voice so easily it makes me green with envy. I do find Ciaran easier to relate to, as well. I think he's there to make sense of his brother. He doesn't seem to fully understand him, either.

Exams finished yesterday, so I got stuck in and finished this today.

I really enjoyed this book. The characters were all well formed and the plot trickled along nicely. The more I read, the more I fell for McCann's style. Although I thought Jazzlyn's vernacular a little crude, (I'll have to hear it to believe it,) the characters' voices were a pleasure. I enjoyed all of the individual stories and I particularly loved Gloria's.

I actually liked the interlinking of the stories. I thought it was well crafted and easy to believe for the most part. (view spoiler)[ But I did find that the walker's appearance in Judge Soderberg's courtroom far too convenient and gimmicky. (hide spoiler)]

I was surprised at how much I enjoyed this book. Had I picked it up in a bookshop and read the back cover, I would have replaced it sharpish.

I just finished reading the book for the second time and remembered why I liked it so much. Strangely though I enjoyed the first read, when I sailed through it, more. Sometimes when I try to scrutinize and analyze art or literature too much it seems to take away from the overall experience.

The Corrigan brothers remain my favorite characters by a long shot. If I were to get my editors hat on I might have omitted the computer geeks and the young artist but that's minor.

I believe in the relationship that evolved between Ciaran and Lara. It is a testament to the possibility of redemption and forgiveness. Life remains good despite all the suffering, loss and pain.

I did enjoy the Corrigans' story. I especially liked their relationships with their mother and father. It was hard for me believe the behaviour of 'Corrie' sometimes, but (view spoiler)[ his appearance in court alongside Tillie and Jazzlyn and his embarrassment when taking Albee to the girls started to give him the extra dimension I needed form him before his romantic tryst came to light. (hide spoiler)]

I am curious to know to what extent you would all consider this to be an "Irish novel"?

Sonia wrote: "I am curious to know to what extent you would all consider this to be an "Irish novel"?"

When the threads for nominations are compiled I always post the criteria in the notification message. There are two stipulations which are,

1. It can be by an Irish writer.

or

2. It must be about a specifically Irish subject.

This qualified via the first criterion, as Colum McCann was born in Dublin.

As a non Irish in Ireland, getting to know Irish literature in a different light. I would be interested to hear what you, Sonia has to say about, this book in the context of an Irish novel.
I am no expert. But I felt that the Corrigans relationship, and them being new immigrants to the US, made it Irish enough. There are things about their life that resonate as typically Irish. In fact, I would not have understood or got certain nuances, not having had read so many Irish novels in the last couple of years. I almost felt the influence of Roddy Doyle... please correct me if I am wrong.

I think the novel is a quintessential "migrant novel", as it can be (and is!) claimed as part of either an Irish or an American literary heritage. McCann's own experiences of growing up in Ireland obviously inform the sections of the novel set in Ireland, thus rendering it "Irish" to an extent. But then the novel has been claimed as a 9/11 novel and even as the great American novel. I find it fascinating how the work is read in so many different, and at times, competing, ways as it circulates among a global readership.

So do you think it fits a particular category, Sonia? To me it fits pretty squarely in the American bracket. Even though two of the main characters are Irish and parts are set in Ireland the other key characters are all American (I'm not including Philippe Petit, here) it revolves around Petit's stunt and the Twin Towers loom large throughout. Especially as every reader is aware of their more recent history. Having read the book I still feel McCann's Irish nationality is the only qualification it had for the group read.

Really, Declan...? (said in a nice way, I am not being sarcastic).
My question now, once you become an immigrant, do you no longer write from an Irish perspective?
As an itinerant immigrant, I have to say that being Puertorrican, does not change because I have emmigrated to another country. That said, a story written by an Irish immigrant, where the two main characters are Irish, makes it very Irish to me.
Additionally, when I read books written by Irish authors, I get a distinctive voice, shall I say an Irish voice. And there was a strong Irish voice in this book.
As far as to the issue that some are claiming that this is the great American novel... this may stem mostly from the fact that it is a book in which 911 is a main character. And because, any immigration and Irish immigration in particular is a major component of America itself.
Second question, what defines Irish literature?
Of course it includes Ulysses--a book about the Irish written by an Irish... Roddy Doyles work... but what about a book written by an Irishman, but not about Ireland? Would that qualify as Irish literature? Most of Oscar Wilde's literature is apparently not about Ireland and being Irish...
This topic is very important to me... we have had this argument with Puertorrican authors for the last 100 years. Would love to read your opinions about this.

Sonia wrote: "I think the novel is a quintessential "migrant novel", as it can be (and is!) claimed as part of either an Irish or an American literary heritage. McCann's own experiences of growing up in Ireland ..."
I think global readership, readily available translations and cyberspace will all change the way books are analyzed. This was particularly evident to me when I discussed Gabriel Garcia Marques works with people from different nationalities. In fact, I found that reading the translation to his books, made the books different somewhat. The main topics are basically there... but sometimes the voice of the author does not translate well.
Which by the way, is something that has to do not only with language, but with knowledge, cultural practices and ways of life.
I mean, I have spoken English since the day I was born (although spanish is the language of choice) and I had read Irish authors before... but now that I have been here for two years, I find I am closer to understanding Irish literature.

Mae wrote: "Really, Declan...? (said in a nice way, I am not being sarcastic).
My question now, once you become an immigrant, do you no longer write from an Irish perspective?
As an itinerant immigrant, I ha..."

Yes. I see it firmly as an American novel. As for it being Irish literature on the other hand I find myself agreeing with you. There is a style to this book that strikes me as being Irish. I recently read
Sebastian Barry's On Canaan's Side and it struck me as being of a similar bent. This also included Emigration from Ireland but unlike the Corrigan's it was forced. Apart from this there was a voice that was distinctly Irish. It was probably more apparent than Let The Great World Spin as it was told through the eyes of an Irish woman.

I also found similarities in the writers' styles but I'm struggling to relate them satisfactorily.

Declan wrote: "So do you think it fits a particular category, Sonia? To me it fits pretty squarely in the American bracket. Even though two of the main characters are Irish and parts are set in Ireland the other ..."

I think what is most interesting about the novel is that there are features which allow it to sit comfortably in either an Irish or an American bracket. If I were to compare this novel to another Irish text, it would have to be Ulysses (on account of the use of stream of consciousness, the various narrators whose lives are intertwined, the description of one day in the lives of inhabitants in a city). I too have read Sebastian Barry's On Canaan's Side but didn't really see any striking similarity between it and Let the Great World Spin. For me, Barry's most recent novel is in many ways more similar to Toibin's Brooklyn.

With regards female narrators, would you generally consider this to be a defining trait of Irish literature? Does this come back to the tendency in Irish cultural discourse to imagine Ireland as female?

Mae wrote: "Really, Declan...? (said in a nice way, I am not being sarcastic).
My question now, once you become an immigrant, do you no longer write from an Irish perspective?
As an itinerant immigrant, I ha..."

Mae, I think your observations regarding the Irish voice are fascinating. It is interesting that you mention this as narrative voice is one element of literature that causes much debate among world literature theorists. I wonder does proximity to an Irish cultural context render the Irishness of the voice more acute or, conversely, if it emphasizes the degree to which it is, perhaps, more American?

Susan, I feel that proximity definitively renders the voice more acute. That is precisely what I was trying to say. I did not realize this until I moved here. I had never heard this voice so clearly. In fact, I don't think I had noticed it.
As a spanish speaker, I never noticed this effect when reading other Latin American authors. Perhaps because I grew up reading them. And never noticed it in english before either. Then again, only really knew the American voice.

Sonia wrote: "Declan wrote: "So do you think it fits a particular category, Sonia? To me it fits pretty squarely in the American bracket. Even though two of the main characters are Irish and parts are set in Ire..."
Susan, your last question is spot on. I've been pleasantly surprised that so many Irish books, written by male authors, are narrated by female voices.

Declan, this is a fascinating discussion... I must read Barry's last book. I truly never considered Let the Great world spin an American book. I must have to revalue and rethink. Perhaps my confusion rises from being here in Ireland when I read it. Thus making me more sensitive to an Irishness that you guys are used to and I am not.

I'm really enjoying this discussion. @ Sonia. What I meant about OCS was that the whole book was written as a first-person narrative in the voice of Lily Dunne (Bere) and because of this it always felt, to me,like an Irish novel. She felt familiar and unchanged throughout the novel even after all the tragedy she suffered. At no time did she ever appear American in the slightest. @Mae I never gave much thought to Male writers using female characters to narrate their stories, but now that you've mentioned it It's only something I've seen Irish writers do for an entire novel. Ghost Light comes immediately to mind.

So, do I consider female narrators to be a defining trait in Irish Literature? Perhaps. I can't think of any novel written in English by an author of another nationality who has written a whole novel like this. I doubt they'd carry it out as capably, either.

Declan, you just hit one of my main literature hot spots-- I wrote my Graduation paper on precisely that last topic-- men writing as women. The two books I used were Lady Chatterly's Lover and Madame Bovary. To make a long story short, although I loved both books, I found the female voices were weak, and did not feel female. Well, at least to the 21 year old Mae that read them.
Here is a list of some books written by males writing as women.
S. by Joh Updike
Anna Karenina by Tolstoi (read)
The Fortunate Mistress by Defoe
True Gritt by Charles Porti
Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure by John Cleland
Bleak House by Charles Dickens
How to be Good by Nick Hornby
Never let me go Kashuo Ishiguro
Mister Pip by Lloyd Jones
Most of these books sit on my shelves unread... the last two I did read and loved.
But I agree with you female narrators are very popular in Irish Literature....

Oh and I almost forgot I am Charlotte Simmons by Thomas Wolfe. Which some critics claim, destroyed the myth that men can't write in women's voices. He does do a great job in this one.

Mae wrote: "Declan, you just hit one of my main literature hot spots-- I wrote my Graduation paper on precisely that last topic-- men writing as women. The two books I used were Lady Chatterly's Lover and Mad..."

Mae, you've just quadrupled my to-read list for the summer. I've been avoiding Anna Karenina for a while, and I'm surprised I haven't read Bleak House, yet. I read some of Dickens's novels as a young teenager and I rather enjoyed them. I will try to read at least a few of these books before returning to college in September.

If there are any you feel I should read, please let me know.

Declan, you and I both... at 51 I have about 200 books I need to read. One of the most fascinating things that has happened since I moved to Ireland has been that my reading world has expanded. The books read in english in this side of the world are different to the books been read in the US. Certain Irish or english writers make it to America, but not all. I brought over many of my to-read books, but I have been busy reading Irish and English books that are not popular in the US, so I am falling behind on my books.
Anna Karenina is a must, Kashuo Ishiguro and Thomas Wolfe should be looked into and if you like Dickens --Mr Pips is an eye opener.
I have learned so much discussing books with you all.

Declan and Mae, I am also loving the vibrancy of this discussion. Mae, I am curious to know as to what conclusions you came to with regards male authors adapting a female narrative voice. Two recent Irish examples (in addition to OCS) are Barry's The Secret Scripture and Tobin's Brooklyn. I wonder are there any really notable examples of the reverse where female authors employ a male voice?

And Declan, Bleak House is a must :)

At the time of my study, I concluded that neither Lawrence nor Flaubert although writing magnificent books, achieved what I felt was a true female voice. The whole time, I was fighting with the author, he was too present and too male. I did however, added the caveat, that a female voice at the end of the 20th century might be a little different to the voice of women at the time these two authors where writing. Poor Madame Bovary was chastised for loving like a man! I felt that both women, where more what the particular authors thought women should be.
After reading many other books, I find that some authors are better than others in truly capturing female voices. The three that I recommended to Declan, being fine examples.
All that being said,of the Irish authors I have read in the last two years, many have accomplished this brilliantly-- Barry in the Secret Scripture and Tobin in Brooklyn are two very good examples. You almost forget the author is male.... In fact, Barry in the Secret Scripture was so darn good, that you could feel the difference between mother and son to the point that you forgot the entries had not been actually written by them. ( I figured it out way too early) I love it when a book transports me to the reality within the book. Barry is a star at that.
On the other hand, I find that women work on this transition a little better... after all we are the mothers and the sisters, and we are a little more attuned to their feelings and or the lack thereof. And yet again, I must add, maybe I am totally wrong... I am a woman, and there interpretation of men is perhaps closer to what I think.... I am particularly thinking of Mary Russell Doria's Father Emilio in the Sparrow.
I am ridiculously excited about Irish history, folklore and literature. It is not what I was shown when I did my schooling in the US. It is so much more! I mean, the US being sooo "Irish", and some of my professors being of Irish descent, I thought I was being introduced to the real thing. I feel like I have been let on a great secret...

I've just added those recommendations to my list and I think Bleak House will be my next read.

I would have liked to join in with rest of the discussion regarding female writers using a male voice but I've read surprisingly few female writers. I think I'd only read Harper Lee and Rose Tremain before I joined Goodreads. I feel quite embarrassed admitting that.

Do you think that men are condition to read only male authors?I think woman have more freedom in what we read.

Declan wrote: "I've just added those recommendations to my list and I think Bleak House will be my next read.

I would have liked to join in with rest of the discussion regarding female writers using a male voic..."
Have you seen the series? It was excellent but I would read the book first.

Colleen wrote: "Do you think that men are condition to read only male authors?I think woman have more freedom in what we read."

Colleen... I think you are soo right. My husband who reads 50 books a year, cannot, will not, read women writers, except for scifi authors. Then again, he was trained by the jesuits... I read everything, or almost everything.

Colleen wrote: "Do you think that men are condition to read only male authors?I think woman have more freedom in what we read."

I don't think so. Romance is a big no-no for most men and when I was a kid starting to read, the only female authors I'd heard of, apart from Agatha Christie and Enid Blyton were the likes of Barbara Cartland and Jilly Cooper. I really don't see any man rushing to read those. I was also much harder for women to break in to writing in times past, so they're terribly under-represented in the classics. I think that has quite a lot to do with it. Nowadays women are strongly represented across all genres. I still have never read sci-fi written by a woman.

Laura wrote:Have you seen the series? It was excellent but I would read the book first...."

I haven't, Laura. If I enjoy the novel I'll download the episodes.

I am not a big scifi reader so I can't give you many recommendations, Declan. But I can give you one that my husband loves--Ursula Leguin, and if you like Arthurian tales, there is Marrion Zimmer Bradley.
As far as female classics... Bronte's, Mary Shelley (Frankestein), George Sands, George Elliot, Ayn Rand, Alice Walker, Jane Austen... and the list has expanded in the last 30 years... C'mon you have been a reader for longer than 10 years. Give it a go.

By the way, I have not read ONE, Barbara Cartland.

Oops... Declan, if you want to read a contemporary female author that is amazing try Annie Proulx. (yes she wrote Brokeback Mountain) but The Shipping News is truly american literature at its best.

I know, I know, Mae... Another problem is that some of the writers you've mentioned have had their most famous works turned into movies and period dramas which I've already seen and it robs me of the impetus to read them. Movies like Wuthering Heights, Frankenstein' Middlemarch and The Colour Purple. I have not seen, or read, any Jane Austen, by the way. Nor am I in a rush to do so. I have also seen The Shipping News which I really enjoyed.

I'll have to try to remedy this. It feels like an accident and I can't believe I've read so few.

Interesting. You just put some weight to my suspicions... The vision that Americans, and mostly the average Irish American of Ireland and Irishness is totally different to the reality that I have found in this fascinating island. I mean, there isn't an Irish event in the US, without Scottish Bagpipers.
I know a little about this ... I am puertorrican, and the image that most Americans have of us, is West Side Story.
Simplify, simplify and generalize. Unfortunately, no nationality is free from either.
There is material for an interesting paper here.
I have to look into Amongst Women.

I have enjoyed your discussion on female authors and cannot believe, Declan, you have not read one Jane Austen. Of course, she is the ultimate female author and deriveters of her novel are doing well. May I recommend some female authors? Gerladine Brooks is fantastic. She won the Pulitzer Prize for "March" about the Little Women's father in the Civil War. Her newest "Caleb's Crossing" is about the first Native American to go to Harvard but, by the far, the best is the "People of the Book." Anne Patchett is also very good as is Louise Erdich.

Good recommendations Susan! We have to get this boy up to par. You go Declan. This has been fun.

Don't worry. I'm making a concious effort to remedy this. I did, however, visit the local library to get some of the recommendations from the thread, but the either didn't have, or didn't stock any of them. I'll order them this evening from their online database.

By the way, my last read was The Choir by Joanna Trollope, so there's one more for the list.

Did you like it, Declan? I looked it up and it looked wonderful. Really try to read Ann Patchett's new book "State of Wonder". It's about a medical experiment in the Amazon that will allow women to give birth up to their 60's and beyond. Supposedly it would be great (ha ha). I told my kids if I ever say I want to go to the Amazon to remind me of this book. I think you'd really like it. Our local book club is reading it next month. I'll let you know if the discussion is lively.

Susan wrote: "Did you like it, Declan? I looked it up and it looked wonderful. Really try to read Ann Patchett's new book "State of Wonder". It's about a medical experiment in the Amazon that will allow women to..."

I did enjoy it, Susan. It was quite light but as it approached the end it livened up quite a bit.

I just added State of Wonder to my to-read pile. It's really starting to stack up.