The Sword and Laser discussion

Do you have any books that count among your favorites, but are just not sure others would like it? Any books you simply can never recommend even though you loved it?

For me, one book that falls into this category is Little, Big by John Crowley. An odd, hyper-literate fantasy that was loved by the critics, but never seemed to get popular support. Maybe it was the time in my life when I read it, or just something that struck a chord, but I loved it. However, it is difficult to recommend a book with no action, a slow pace, and is difficult to explain.

Are there any other favorite books that you just find difficult to recommend to your family and friends?

I've never read anything I wouldn't recommend per se, just perhaps that I wouldn't recommend to certain people, based on what I know of their taste and preferences.

I started Little, Big last year, and I do see what you mean. I put it aside as it seemed like a book I need to give time to fully commit to, to let it possess me, and I didn't feel that focussed. I must pick it up again.

Paul, you are right, most of my "non-recommendations" are like that: can only be recommended to certain people. Little, Big and maybe Fucault's Pendulum are the only ones I have never been able to recommend to anyone, no matter how much I liked it.

I personally loved The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged but I can somehow ignore all the bad parts in them while others can't.... so I never recommend them.

I also love Foucault's Pendulum, and happily have at least one friend who shares my love of Umberto Eco!

I do think that sometimes it is possible to love a book hugely and, perhaps if it is 'quirky' or particularly niche or intellectual, be worried that others won't get it, and not want to be deflated by their reactions. You've got me wondering who I'd recommend If on a winter's night a traveler to. Perhaps the same friend I mentioned before; I know he likes Eco and Primo Levi

I think Vellum: The Book of All Hours and it's sequel Ink: The Book of All Hours is an absolute masterpiece, that combines an expertly crafted mythology, wonderful characters, fantastic writing and deep themes.

But it shifts through parallel worlds, Sumerian myths, far future tech without much sign posting, there are seven characters and they all have multiple incarnations and it takes ages to figure out who's who and why. All the character relationships keep getting disrupted, and this one terrible thing keeps happening over and over.

It's easily dismissed as pretensions nonsense (or worse, postmodern) by anyone whose not willing to just go with it until it all starts coming together (which it does, brilliantly) or who isn't familiar and comfortable and entranced with intertextuality and metafiction, and the short list of people I know who like that sort of thing doesn't overlap with my friends who like sci-fi and fantasy.

I'm doomed to love it alone.

Little, Big is on my to-read list though.

Kate wrote: "I think Vellum: The Book of All Hours and it's sequel Ink: The Book of All Hours is an absolute masterpiece, that combines an expertly crafted mythology, wonderful char..."

Vellum is on my to read shelf, and your description has just made it jump a whole lot higher!

Paul 'Pezski' wrote: Vellum is on my to read shelf, and your description has just made it jump a whole lot higher!
"


Hurrah, maybe we could retitle this thread "Recommend books without fear of recrimination" ;)

The one book, or series in this case, that I have a hard time recommending is Stephen R. Donaldson's Gap Series.

The first book The Gap Into Conflict: The Real Story has a few very brutal scenes and some people cannot get past that when the roles of victim, villain and hero start to change.

For me the high quality of Donaldson's writing is reason enough to read anything with his name on it.

I have not had any book that I loved that I wasn't able to recommend to somebody, and I've read a variety of books, from paranormal romance, to horror, to literature. Just as there is somebody for somebody, there is a person that will enjoy that particular book. If I think that the person will like that particular book, I will recommend it.

Dictionary of the Khazars which was written in braided hypertext entries, before hypertexting. Not really a plot, but hidden suggestions of various stories from different points of view and different times. (The male vs female version, however, was just a useless gimmick to me.)

I think a more entertaining topic would be, "What was the oddest book recommended for you?"

I get a lot of recommendations for books on cannibalism, and I have no idea why.

I'm evil, so if someone asks me, "Hey, my twelve year old daughter likes sci-fi, what would you recommend?" my immediate response is, "Let me loan her a copy of The Illuminatus! Trilogy."

And speaking of book recommendations, I just have to say everyone should try the manga Velveteen & Mandala. It's a sweet tale of friendship between two teenage girls. I guarantee you will love it.

Kate wrote: "I think Vellum: The Book of All Hours and it's sequel Ink: The Book of All Hours is an absolute masterpiece, that combines an expertly crafted mythology, wonderful char..."

Hmm I have them both in my tbr pile somewhere - is it a good idea to keep a list or something over the main characters?

Louise wrote: "Hmm I have them both in my tbr pile somewhere - is it a good idea to keep a list or something over the main characters?
"

Keeping a list might help, yeah, but maybe only insofar as it will keep you alert and focus you on what characters stand out as 'main' and who's just a background character. Once you have it straight in your head you probably wouldn't need the list to remember 7 people, they're all pretty distinctive once you get a handle on them.

Sean wrote: "I'm evil, so if someone asks me, "Hey, my twelve year old daughter likes sci-fi, what would you recommend?" my immediate response is, "Let me loan her a copy of [book:The Illuminatus! Trilogy|57913..."

Mwa-ha-ha-ha!

That said, EVERYONE should read that book, although perhaps when they're a little less impressionable!

Thanks Kate :-)

Night Train to Lisbon is one of my favourites, but it's a bit demanding (but soooo rewarding), so I try hard to only recommend it to people who'll love it as much as I do :-)

Battlefield Earth

Nobody seems to like this book :(

I'd recommend Little, Big to anyone who likes Cottingley Fairies (Wikipedia is dark today).

I read and quite enjoyed Infinite Jest. I realize, however, that his style isn't for everybody. I definitely think carefully about who I recommend that to. Actually, the same could be said about any DFW book.

Aloha wrote: "I get a lot of recommendations for books on cannibalism, and I have no idea why."

Lies.

You know

I loved the book "Chance" (a book about statistics) but I don't often recommend it for fear of my inner math nerd being exposed. I also read a book called "The Red Queen" which is about sexual evolution. It was fascinating and a real freak show but not something I would be comfortable recommending to a friend.

I really enjoy the Anita Blake books but the way sex between the characters became central to the on going plot makes it a iffy recommend to many people.

The Illuminatus! Trilogy is a good example of a book that I used to recommend when I was in my 20s and 30s, but the book shows its age and I find it harder to recommend now.

The first few Anita Blake books aren't particularly over the top with questionable content, but they do get there pretty quickly. That's a reason to recommend it for some people of course. (See this Penny Arcade comic for example.)

I thought that was the purpose of this thread? To list the books we like but don't usually recommend. My wife still pokes fun at me for reading Salt: A World History.

Yes it is a book about the history of salt. I blame Robert Jordan, he noted it as one of the books he read researching for Knife of Dreams.

This thread is more about those books we like, but may not be right for everyone. As opposed to books we hated (already a thread), or those books you'd never admit liking (because if you posted you didn't read the topic).

Yes, I have added more books to my list as well! I suppose there is a certain level of trust that comes from hanging out with like-minded people. :0)

Skip wrote: "The Illuminatus! Trilogy is a good example of a book that I used to recommend when I was in my 20s and 30s, but the book shows its age and I find it harder to recommend now."

Nonsense, its message of drugs, debauchery and anarchism will never go stale. fnord.

Sean wrote: Nonsense, its message of drugs, debauchery and anarchism will never go stale. fnord.

hmmm, I guess I better pick it up!!

kvon wrote: "Dictionary of the Khazars which was written in braided hypertext entries, before hypertexting. Not really a plot, but hidden suggestions of various stories from different points of vbut hidden suggestions of various stories from different points of view and different times. (The male vs female version, however, was just a useless gimmick to me.) "

Yes, I love that book, but it's definitely an acquired taste -- a surreal fantasy / revised history parceled out in dictionary entries that you can cross-refrence in the order of your choosing (agreed, hypertext-y) -- so I don't recommend it until I know someone's tastes. And agreed, the dumb gimmick of the male/female versions is also a barrier. I still love it, though (*hides from its dream assassins*).

Adreienne wrote: "I have not yet found someone I can recommend Shadow and Claw to without strong, strong reservations and lots of buts."

When I re-read it when it was a S&L pick I was less dazzled by it then the first time I read it, picking it apart more, liking some of it more, some of it less -- so I did gain some caveats I would make before recommending it now, whereas before I would trumpet it heedlessly. And yes, it not being on Kindle doesn't help.

I guess Tropic of Cancer is out.

aldenoneil wrote: "I'd also like to add to the list any books that include any sexual encounters at all, because I do most of my recommending to my parents."

So you'll be recommending the current pick Rule 34 then? ;)

aldenoneil wrote: "Adrienne wrote: "I have not yet found someone I can recommend Shadow and Claw to without strong, strong reservations and lots of buts."

Like, "But it's not on Kindle.""

That's a big one for me (generally speaking). I'm actually trying to read all the unread dead-tree books I have. I am really moving toward Kindle and audio.

But I enjoyed Shadow and Claw and will one day re-read it and then read Sword and Citadel.

The Thraxas books by Martin Scott (a pen-name for Martin Millar) are fun and quick to read. Not sure how much I'm allowed to like them

Sean wrote: "Nonsense, its message of drugs, debauchery and anarchism will never go stale. fnord."

Oh, I agree with that part. It is just that the treatment of women and minorities in the book would make some people blanch. People that didn't live through the 70s might not get some of the references, and be offended by the actions of the characters, good and bad. And I realized that people don't like abrupt shifts in POV, and this book can change POV, time and location mid sentence. Thus I tend not to blanket recommend it the way I used to.

That said, when everyone was obsessing about The Da Vinci Code, I sent them all to the book. If they were horrified, at least they weren't bothering me.

If you thought Rule 34 was too graphic you probably wouldn't like this book.

Hail Eris!

Along with Scifi and Fantasy, I also read a lot of Horror, but I don't know that many people who also enjoy that genre. So I guess those.

Feersum Endjinn by Iain M. Banks -- on the one hand, the story (when you finally pieced it together) was cool, but on the othur hand the fonetik languj wuz reely hard too puzul thru so it mite bee to much werk for most peepul.

Joseph wrote: "but on the othur hand the fonetik languj wuz reely hard too puzul thru so it mite bee to much werk for most peepul. "

I see what you did there. :D

Another one is Will Shetterly's The Gospel of the Knife (sequel to Dogland, which was wonderful -- a coming-of-age story in 1960's Florida that may or may not have included magical elements). In this case, my reluctance is because, like Rule 34, it's told in second-person POV, which I found off-putting, much as I liked the story in general.

Just read Alan Moore's Neonomicon. I thought it was good, but the content is pretty harsh in sex/violence.

Skip wrote: "I thought that was the purpose of this thread? To list the books we like but don't usually recommend. My wife still pokes fun at me for reading Salt: A World History. "

That's awesome. I was just in Cosco yesterday and picked that exact book up thinking it would be a great read for my next non-fiction book. Didn't buy it yesterday but I was planning to do it next Cosco trip. Was it worth the read?

Paul 'Pezski' wrote: "I also love Foucault's Pendulum, and happily have at least one friend who shares my love of Umberto Eco!

I do think that sometimes it is possible to love a book hugely and, perhaps if it is 'quirk..."

I love Eco too - just got The Prague Cemetery and I can't wait to get started.

For me it is anything by Henry Miller. It isn't for everyone and there isn't much of a plot and tons of sexual content that isn't for everyone, but he is one of the best sentence structuralists ever.

Joseph wrote: "Feersum Endjinn by Iain M. Banks -- on the one hand, the story (when you finally pieced it together) was cool, but on the othur hand the fonetik languj wuz reely hard too..."

That name reminded me of a book I read a LONG time ago and had nearly forgotten,

Engine Summer

Coincidentally, by the same author as the book I mentioned in the OP, John Crowley. I might have to pick that one up again, thanks for the inadvertent reminder!!

Did anyone like Light by M John Harrison besides Neil Gaiman? I found it incredibly turgid and unappealing (someone said that about Ralph Bakshi's Wizards).

So lately, I've been having trouble recommending anything by my three favorite authors, Mercedes Lackey, Raymond Feist, & David Eddings. Whenever I need a quick & easy read with a good story & likeable characters, I return to one of their series. Sadly, I get the distinct impression that they are now considered somewhat "juvenile" in tone. Everybody has to be "edgy" or, well, overwrought is the word that comes to mind when trying to describe Robert Jordan, George RR Martin, or Terry Goodkind books. Even JK Rowling ended up with books so big you had to work out just to lift them.

The other type of books I hesitate to recommend are those with somewhat heretical themes. I loved Waiting for the Galactic Bus and To Reign in Hell, but so many people are so sensitive about their religion and/or are afraid to question anything about it that books like these that take those questions head on are looked at askew.

Aloha wrote: "I get a lot of recommendations for books on cannibalism, and I have no idea why."

Let me recommend Compassionate Cannibalism by my good friend Beth. It's an interesting read. The plot is a little iffy but then again it's non-fiction. (What's the emoticon for delivered with a straight face?)

Vance wrote: "That name reminded me of a book I read a LONG time ago and had nearly forgotten,

Engine Summer"

Engine Summer is an easier read than Little Big. Probably that should be the John Crowley started volume.

Al, if I remember, it is fairly short as well. I am going to re-read that one soon.

Mary, I read all of those authors a long time ago, but have nothing by them in ages. My problem with recommending them is that I simply don't know how they "hold up", whether they are books I would still like enough now to recommend them.

Two books I read many years ago and really enjoyed were The War Of Powers Vol 1 & 2. Epic fantasy with a lot of action, but also a lot of sex. Too much for most juveniles whom would otherwise enjoy the books. (American juveniles that is, not Europeans.)