Action/Adventure Aficionados discussion

So I was trying to come up with a female A/A character and for the life of me I could only come up with one. Brad Thor's Athena Project and I didn't care for that book. I can think several female secondary characters, ie; Seichan, Mother, Casseopia... I can think of several female leads, but they fit more into mystery suspense then action.

What female A/As do you know of?

I don't know if you'd count Mother from the Scarecrow books.

wrong anatomy?

Mother is definitely female, just not a lead.

lol you know im just kidding. i like to joke around too much.

There is Janetta Carver in A Galaxy Unknown by Thomas DePrima that's an 8 book series right now. I've never read it (but want to) Honor Harrington.

I'll comb my books, I know I have more. (lots of UF with female leads)

For an also there, is Randi Russel in The Hades Factor series.

Pia Senda in Diamond Sands... I'll break out the list.

Well I was trying to think of some contemporary A/A.

Markm wrote: "lol you know im just kidding. i like to joke around too much."

I wasn't sure if I had stated my post with some doubt or not. I like that you kid!

Keri wrote: "Well I was trying to think of some contemporary A/A."

Yeah, I figured that. I think we explored this some in

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/6...

I believe we kind of came to the conclusion, that for A/A books, there just aren't a lot with female leads. There were plenty with joint male-female leading roles and with strong females as supporting characters.

The place where we found most of the female leading characters (protaganists) was in the Sci-Fi realm. There were some in UF and Fantasy.

There were plenty of female characters in lead roles in other genre's particularly the world of Crime/Police Procedural Novels like the Jack Daniels series and another of my favorite Lady bad guy catchers, Kate Shugak.

We are still looking.

And Ashely Carter from Subterranean by James Rollins is another strong character. Like Kerri Russel and Ann Navarro she shares the spotlight with a male lead, but unlike them, to me, it seems more like she is the lead and the male a strong supporting character.

Hugh The Curmudgeon wrote: "Keri wrote: "Well I was trying to think of some contemporary A/A."

Yeah, I figured that. I think we explored this some in

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/6...

..."

I have to think this will change. I saw a study from 2008 that stated that women were 80% of the fiction buyers. Even traditionally "male" genres like scifi we over 50% female now.

So, with women dominating the market, authors are going to realize that they might enjoy a good female main character in A/A.

Just from the business side, I thimk we will see more female MC's. It just makes sense.

Splitter

In the and Is a strong take charge woman, Lorena. I can even see a spinoff series with Lorena as the main focus. Ever thought of doing a action adventure series for Lorena, Splitter?

See that was my issue. I could find a ton of woman in the mystery/suspense genre that fits the strong female lead. But I just couldn't arrive at one for the A/A role. It just surpised me that it was that hard to even come up with one.

Eileen wrote: "In the and Is a strong take charge woman, Lorena. I can even see a spinoff series with Lorena as the main focus. Ever thought of ..."

Before or after the next book, I plan to do a Lorena short story or novelette. I am dying to write her, but it is scary too.

See...men tend to write women badly. Lots of hair twisting and "I hope he likes me" angst. Really shallow. Or they make them men with different equipment. I don't want to do that and add to the problem.
I think a lot of female writers do emn well, though.

Lorena may have become my favorite character, but that's the project that scares me most. Thankfully, I am surrounded by women who will beat me bloody if I do it wrong lol.
And that may be why there are not many A/A female leads. Most writers in the genre are still male and they might be afraid or just uninterested. Sad, because I know I like movies and TV A/A with female leads...not many of those either.

S

Splitter, I may not be the best source because I guess I am not that picky a reader. However, I don't see why a male author cannot write a female character so long as he doesn't play to stereotypes or make assumptions about women.

Women aren't all the same. I don't think there is a typical woman. If you know Lorena as a character enough to write her in the Crayder series, I don't see why you can carry that through to her own novelette.

I write male characters, and I feel like I do a good job with them. I just write human beings who are of the male persuasion. I might ask myself what this guy I am writing about would do in that situation, and that isn't necessarily the same as 99% of the other men on Earth, because each person is different.

Yes, it's fiction, so your goal is writing a piece of entertainment. You can break some rules, but you need to have something that a person reading can believe is plausible in real life. And that can be as little as having a person with identifiably human traits.

That is just my two cents. Feel free to ignore me.

Excellent news!

Well, I think Lorena isn't at all the kind of woman that would sit around twisting her hair waiting for a guy to call.(I just thought of what I said) LOL! Tom Crayder knows what I mean. : )

How can I say this, Lorena (the way I interperate her)has a feminine side and is equipped physically, capable of handling herself in any situation (maybe) even a little better then Tom. That can be hard to write because men have a tendency to want to take charge and "protect" the woman from harm.

I hope I'm making some sense. : )

C.S. Splitter wrote: "Eileen wrote: "In the and Is a strong take charge woman, Lorena. I can even see a spinoff series with Lorena as the main focus. E..."

If you get the chance, go to Robert Ludlum's house, beat Gale Lynds on the head and make her write a Kerri Russel spin of for the Covert One Series. She'd be great too.

Lady Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "Splitter, I may not be the best source because I guess I am not that picky a reader. However, I don't see why a male author cannot write a female character so long as he doesn't play to stereotype..."

Lady D, I think you are 100% RIGHT. But for female characters I have read by male authors, they usually "dumb down" the female character. I hate that. Granted, most of that has been fantasy where women TEND to be portrayed as I said (Robert Jordan anyone? lol). Drives me nuts because the women I have known have been all over the map, my wife included.

Why is it hard for men to write women? I don't have a complete answer. I just know that most do it poorly and when I think about doing it, I get the jeebies because I have seen it done so badly so often. And when I write a female character, from inside her head, I want to avoid the things you have mentioned. That sounds like something easy to do, but people are so conscious of the stereotypes that the attempt to avoid those stereotypes can make the character look artificial.

Yeah, that probably did not all make sense. Sorry. I am over-complicating things...but I am confident in reporting what I have witnessed when it comes to male authors writing female characters (for the most part). I can't adequately explain why toilet water swirls the other way south of the equator, either lol.

Male authors, and I may not be good on this because my background in reading is mostly fantasy, do tend to stereotype the women. It's wrong, but it's common from what I have seen.

Eileen, that makes PERFECT sense and I take advantage of men's tendency to want to "save the day" as you know lol.

People ask me about Tom's sidekick, Lorena. The reality is: Tom is her sidekick. I am just telling the story from his perspective so far. Lorena is experienced, capable, and definitely has the Alexander Haig attitude ("I'm in charge here," for those not conscious in the early 80's lol). And all of that screws Tom's head up a little bit. It also screws up the other men that she comes across, and she takes advantage of being underestimated.

Writing Lorena is almost cheating for me because she is so...different...from most people. Torture and snowglobes, that's all I am saying :).

Back to Lady D...I think what I was trying to point out really falls under the category of prejudice. Prejudice means to pre-judge, and we all do that to an extent. It just really shows up in the lack of female leads that are not "cookie cutter".

I look at TV and see that almost all of the female leads in anything approaching A/A are young, hot, and virtually interchangeable. Then, when we get someone like the main character in Prime Suspect (older woman, rough around the edges, having some complexity), those series don't get picked up. It's really pretty sad in my estimation.

So....I am really sounding like Gloria Steinem at the moment. I need to go do something manly. How 'bout those Niners?

Hugh, I am ashamed to admit that I have no idea who those people are beyond Ludlum being a best selling author. Care to explain?

For the record, I like strong women and find it insulting that there are not more of them portrayed in books, movies, and TV. They can keep the cookie cutter types they keep thrusting upon us. Maybe that's why I like Homeland so much.

Splitter

The Covert One series, has been written by committee with Robert Ludlum listed as a co-author. Mike will back me up (I think) that these don't seem like the Ludlum we grew up with, and since he passed away recently (I think he did) it's not likely he was doing the lions share of the writing. (More like L.Ron Hubbard). Gayle Lynds is one of the stable of authors that gets credit on the Covert One Series. There two or three writers who have Co-authored it.

Now I don't know if the Real Ludlum did, or didn't have much of a role in these, but, they are noticably different than the super-thrillers like The Holcroft Covenant and The Bourne Identity that I grew up with.

Having said that. Different, for me, is not bad. There a fun read. Not as good as Ludlum's old stuff, but recommendable.

I should really start reading in this genre more I guess.

Splitter

Splitter, what you said made perfect sense.

I think you have a handle on writing the kind of woman character you admire. I say write her, let some beta readers read the book, including various women whose opinions you trust, and then go from there. I have confidence in you. I wanted to add that I think a lot of the tv and movie shows get women way wrong. I love Brenda Lee Johnson on The Closer because she is tough at her job, wicked intelligent, but her personal life shows that she is also very feminine and has as many flaws as the next girl.

J.A. Konrath does a good job with Jack Daniels. She's not a particularly girly-girl, but she's wonderfully human and flawed.

I agree, Hugh.

I can't help it. I keep picturing "Bonnie Franklin" (yes, that's "Mom", from "One Day at a Time." for Jack Daniels. I know it's nothing like she's described, maybe its the sarcastic but sensible, spunky but business like manner?

I pictured a more rough around the edges Dana Delany. I have had a girl crush on her since China Beach.

I think that's probably a better fit. I also get a Sela-Ward thing from her too.

Yeah, I could see Sela Ward with red hair as Jack.

There's always a Angie Everhart, as long as she's not expected to act and... somebody washes her in hot water so she shrinks (she's like nearly six feet tall or something but... she works for just about any red had as far as I'm concerned.)

I don't usually think about her, probably because I haven't seen any of her movies where she blew me away. But you're right, definitely a beautiful redhead.

She even played a sexy vampire once... across from Dennis Miller (believe it or not).

I've always wondered why there are so few (none?) strong female characters in A/A but I've not been able to think of any either.

I can understand why it would be more difficult for a male author to write women as main characters, or for a female author to write a male main character but in the sci-fi books and more recently mystery books some authors have done this very effectively so I don't understand why more of the A/A authors haven't managed it.

You all got me thinking about this subject last night and I think we missed something by putting the blame only on the authors.

Sharon, I think we also have to look at the fact that the publishing industry was dominated by the Big Six publishing houses until just a year or two ago.

All they care about is what will sell. They know big names sell. They have also always been resistant to change. Male A/A leads sold fine so they had no reason to change their formula for A/A.

Plus, the A/A genre is secondary to genres like romance, horror, and speculative fiction. There were not as many books published for A/A so the pool was small and diversity was therefore limited.

Recently, you have started to see independent authors entering the fray (I am combining small press indies and self pubbers in that category). They are not held hostage by the opinions of a few at the Big Six who dictated what would be put out for public consumption.

Now, you will see books come out that break the traditional molds. I strongly suspect that some of these "new" authors will take advantage of the vacuum for female A/A leads. I think you might also see some well-known names putting out books with female leads independently that were previously rejected by the Big Six.

J.A. Konrath is making huge amounts of money from the books to which he owns the rights. Some of these were previously rejected for publication, but they sell for him when he can go directly to the consumer as an indie author. The same thing is happening with other well known authors. I would think that has to lead to new formulas, like A/A with female leads.

While it is true that most indie books are bad (a stereotype all indies feel), there will be some that are good. Just have to find them..and it's not like all of the traditionally published Big Six books were good...or well edited.

I know TLDR, but I think there is something there lol.

Splitter

C.S. Splitter wrote: "You all got me thinking about this subject last night and I think we missed something by putting the blame only on the authors.

Sharon, I think we also have to look at the fact that the publishing..."

Splitter, posts # 56 is something I put up about this very thing. I think your right. This was taken from a string that got closed down. That was about romance in non romance genres... but, it applies here.

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/6...

That was a great thread! Bagels and doughnuts. Exactly.

It also touched on another part of the lack of diversity. The vast majority of MC's are white guys. I think we will see more options there too.

It's a great, if confusing, time to be a reader.

Splitter

Thank you and yes, I think Lady D makes a very good point about diversity in the next post down #57 or 58.

I think I have heard a coherent argument about women as action adventure leads, though I don't necessarily agree with it. (it is coherent) I'll see if I can dig up the blog.

C.S. Splitter wrote: "Recently, you have started to see independent authors entering the fray (I am combining small press indies and self pubbers in that category).

Now, you will see books come out that break the traditional molds. I strongly suspect that some of these "new" authors will take advantage of the vacuum for female A/A leads. "

I'd definitely like to see this, although I also hope they don't follow the unfortunate direction so many of the 'strong female character' writers seem to be going in police/detective circles. If it's female, oh, boy ... just another place to go so she's got a screwed up personal/home life ... so we've got pregnancies, small children and babysitter problems, school problems, teenage angst problems ... as well as the usual alcohol, drug, ex-spouse and psychological problems.

I'm hoping the A/A background will help keep this to a minimum as I'm getting truly annoyed by this particular trend.

Sharon wrote: "C.S. Splitter wrote: "Recently, you have started to see independent authors entering the fray (I am combining small press indies and self pubbers in that category).

Now, you will see books come o..."

Is there an example of a heroine/book that's more where you think they should be focusing their creative juices? (understanding of course, that nothing's a perfect fit.)

For my own personal reading enjoyment, of course, I'd very much like to see an established archaelogical type female (not quite as over the top as Indiana Jones, but you get the general idea) that heads a group look for treasure/old civilizations etc. in the jungle/desert and so on.

One of the series I liked the best in the spy sub-genre were the Mrs. Pollifax novels ... the first one especially was such a remarkable change over the James Bond era books. Retired, widowed ... never been anyplace ... but in that first book she met kidnapping, torture and so on with great dignity simply because she had so much experience in living.

I guess if I could call up my 'ideal' A/A leading lady it would be a 30-something, even 40-something archaelogist with some of the the attitude of Mrs. Pollifax and a slight edge of Eve Dallas of the "In Death" series.

Robert Ludlum and Gayle Lynds (and Eric Von Lustbader and someone else) write a series under Ludlum's name called "Covert One."

The main character is male, but there is a female spy who comes in now and then (in every book I've read so far). You might like her. I think she needs a book of her own. In this series Randi Russell is pretty cool. In the first of the series, Her sister gets killed and she winds up working with the hero (here sisters fiance').

She's smart, strong, and I didn't pick up on a lot of the things you listed in post #36. Granted she's not the lead character, and in one of the books she's more of a cameo appearance, but, when she's there she gets top billing in her segements.

She works for the CIA (the lead working for a different organization) and I find her more interesting than the lead. (Again, I'm routing for a spin off book of her own.) When some characters tend to get a little "spread out" as a book goes on, she seems to be getting tighter and more composed.

Just a thought.

Hugh The Curmudgeon wrote: "Robert Ludlum and Gayle Lynds (and Eric Von Lustbader and someone else) write a series under Ludlum's name called "Covert One."

The main character is male, but there is a female spy who comes..."

I'll take a look at that series, the library has the first two. Sounds like it might work for me.

Catching up here...

It's going to show my age, I was a fan of Cagney and Lacey show. Both women were strong in a mans world. Two different types of woman, one with a family and one single female.

I too, liked China Beach and Dana Delany. Always liked Sela Ward.

Thinking about female A/A leads. I don't know of a lot of my female friends who like action movies or read action books. Maybe that's one of the reasons there aren't many strong female leads. So when writing or making movies they have to appeal to the audience that will bring in the most money.

Eileen wrote: "Catching up here...So when writing or making movies they have to appeal to the audience that will bring in the most money. ..."

So Sela Ward's definately a good call with the over 40 male crowd.

Uh, yeah....she never had to sneak up on a glass of water, that's for sure.

For possible female leads, I would also nominate Kono from Hawaii Five-Oh. The new one, not the fat guy from the 70's :).

If she ate a cheeseburger or two, she would be both hot and kick backside

Splitter

Grace park...Boomer from BSG 2005! To be honest, even though she's obnoxious and wigged out than a hair salon, The actress who plays Kara Thrace (Starbuck) from BSG 2005, (another gender switched role from the original) isn't a bad action heroine, maybe a little bit dark and borderline I supppose.

of course, nobody comes close to my Sidney! (as in Bristow).

As for the FF4, who wouldn't want to see more Jessica Alba in spandex? I liked these movies, but the first was better. I don't think either of them pushed boundaries like Stan Lee and Marvel Comics seemed to do with these ground breaking series (especially X-Men).

Ohhhh....Starbuck! Yeah, I could see that. A tortured, brooding type.

Splitter

and for the record, I meant Starbuck is wigged out (a little looney) not The actress who plays her.

i keep coming up with comics wonder woman and stuff can't think of any in books,shame!

Very few male writers can pull off a good female lead charactor. In my current book Micro Karen King would of been a good lead character.

Haven't been by in a while. I keep looking for a good female action adventure character. I've found a few fantasy novels, but actual action novels, I'm still looking. I haven't read the The Covert One series yet. I keep meaning to... Maybe now, you think? LOL

Randi Russel's role is supporting in that, but, yea, it's a good read. Just remember that Gayle Lynde is more likely the writer than Ludlum.