Debates of all sorts discussion

In my state we only need 2 semesters of PE... But yes the rest you have to take all year for the rest of high school unless you double up and take 2 in one year.

To be honest, at least in the U.S., not having compulsory subjects would change very little. The people who are planning to go to college have to take them anyway - most colleges require three years of high school level classes in all of those subjects except P.E.- and the people who won't go to college often aren't paying attention in their required classes anyway.

I don't like having PE as a required course... I could be spending the time in that class doing something much more valuable.

And with that I wholeheartedly agree. PE courses, especially in high school, feel often like a concerted attempt to humiliate non-athletes.

Anila wrote: "And with that I wholeheartedly agree. PE courses, especially in high school, feel often like a concerted attempt to humiliate non-athletes."

That I would agree with... I'm not an athlete beyond martial arts... Granted I'm a damned good at that :)

Aleph wrote: "I would have to agree with the PE part, but the fact that you need certain subjects to get into a college does seem silly.

I think that subjects shouldn't be compulsory, but I think they should be..."

It does depend on the college, but largely I think it makes sense. Imagine how impractical it would be if a university had to have math classes from basic algebra up to advanced calculus - that's a range of classes and professors that would be nearly impossible, particularly for small schools, and would cost even the big ones a lot in time and money.

The US requirements vary drastically from district to district, actually. My requirements are completely different from Cody's.

That's a bit besides the point, though: I think that all subjects should be required for at least a while (here you only have to take 2 years of math, for example), but you should also have plenty of electives to balance those out, and by senior year (the last year of school) almost nothing should be mandatory, except maybe English. I don't think math should really be compulsory throughout school, as the people who wouldn't (don't) take it are really the ones who won't use it anyway beyond arithmetic...like elementary school teachers or something :P

We have a few compulsory courses in 9th grade, their is a tech class you have to take and a computer class you have to take, can't remember what else. Then you have to have 4 credits of Math, Science, English, and History (2 semesters being one credit so you could double up one year.) You have to have 1 credit of PE (each semester being half unless you do PE through a sport in which each season is only a quarter) Then you have to have something like 8 credits of electives (each semester is half a credit for all classes) they say to get into most colleges you have to have two consecutive years of a foreign language so that's two credits for you right their (I'm in my second year of German)

I wish I didn't have to take the math I do. I'm never going to use Geometry, I'm never going to use Algebra. It's all a waste of a class period (that and the teacher absolutely sucks.) They should look at what kinda field you plan on going into so you can make a decision based on that and focus on what you're going to need to learn. Like me I want to be a Lawyer, I don't need advanced math or science (though I do love science) I need English, History, and Government and classes possibly for electives things like sociology, psychology and forensic psychology.

Math just isn't that important to what I'm going to be doing in my future, it's bringing my GPA down and it's really wasting a class period, why should it be compulsory?

We need 3 credits of gym, science, and history; 2 of math and foreign languages (I'm taking French, 5th year technically but my first year was pointless so it's more like 4 years); 4 of English. And each semester's worth of one class is half a credit, yeah.

Well, geometry and algebra are still just teaching you how to think (if properly taught), which you do kind of need to know, but calc and stuff shouldn't be required at all. Although I love calc :3 My teacher sucks too though, it's annoying. I sleep through his class and my mom teaches me at home :P
Teacher standards should definitely be raised, by the way.

But anyway, as the education system currently is, I agree that almost nothing should be required. Lots of people don't use math or science...I just like them, so I'm taking lots of them, but I probably won't use it.

Science is useful, though, in understanding a lot of major political issues these days.
I guess the best compromise would be offering the high school equivalent of 'science for non-majors' - after a certain level, students are still required to take English, math, science, social studies, but can choose either the really academic pre-college track or a more practical track if they're not planning on using it in college. It would be kind of like AP/IB and non-AP or IB classes, except that even the non-advanced classes tend to be pretty esoteric now; English class still focuses on analysis, etc. Instead, schools could offer an English track focused on how to conduct research and write a summary of findings, or how to construct a good argument; a science track explaining practical science and some topics that are politicized; a social studies track grounded in how being a legal adult citizen works and what it's like to vote and pay taxes and stuff; a math track that's all real-life examples but not obscenely complicated.

Does that make sense?

(P.E. can just be tossed out the window IMHO.)

Agreed with gym, English, and social studies.
The thing with science and math is that either you actually understand it, in which case it's worthwhile learning but you'll probably want to do it anyway, or you don't. Real-life examples are immensely complicated - the most realistic things I've ever seen are from Calc, and those are extremely simple. I think more of a logic-type class would be more beneficial; I mean, that's all math is anyway, but people are for some reason weirded out by numbers and abstract-type stuff, which a logic class would cut out.
I don't even understand what you mean by 'practical science', so I can't really make an argument against that. The only science-y political topic I can think of is stem cell research, and that takes maybe one lesson to explain if you don't explore the science behind it...but that requires academic interest and all that.

I don't think Pe should be compulsory, if it's not going to help you get a job/get into collage and you don't enjoy it what's the point?

Also i don't think French should be compulsory.

Rachel - I guess when I say 'practical science', I mean things like stem cell research, but also environmentalism/global climate change, possibly a discussion of major diseases like cancer - basically a series of case studies on broad topics, maybe? Sort of National Geographic science - bits and pieces on new discoveries and really relevant things, etc.

As for math... I really disagree with your assertion about Calc. There's a lot that could be done with examples about budgeting and day-to-day/month-to-month life that doesn't require calculus (thankfully).

Jodie - Yeah, foreign languages shouldn't be required.

Anila - Ohh, alright. I don't really see if there's enough about that to fill multiple semesters' worth of curriculum, but as an idea it sounds good ^-^
Budgeting? That's not so much math as Family/Consumer Ed....

It's the most practical form of math for a lot of people, and some Family/Consumer Ed curricula don't teach it. (My school's did cooking, sewing, and babysitting, but no budgeting.)
Come to think of it, I guess what I have in mind when I think about day-to-day math is the kind of things I learned in a Finance class sophomore year - not just budgeting but about the stock market, different kinds of bonds, credit cards, etc. If that kind of class could count for people's math credits, it would probably make a lot of students happier.

Regarding science - it wouldn't need to fill multiple years (because I do see it filling at least two semesters), I guess, since the idea behind all the 'practical' variations on subjects is to provide basic useful education in them to people who aren't going to pursue them academically. At the point that we're talking about that, there's no reason not to shift credit requirements so that students can concentrate on subjects they like.



Also, IMHO at least a little foreign language should be required. At the very least it's some of the best brain exercise you can ever get.

Yeah, it could be covered in a Finance class. It's just not math, though - it's a totally different sort of thinking and subject, it just applies arithmetic.

If it fills the semesters, I think it's a good idea.

Heh, well that's the way I feel about math. I think learning a foreign language is very satisfying and makes you more literate and knowledgeable and all that...but so does math :P Lots of people really don't care at all, and it's their deal. I don't see the point of forcing it.

It's not pure mathematics, but it's a practical application of the math skills most people will use most often - if we're separating out pure English, pure social studies, etc. math should not be left alone.


For American students, the point of requiring a foreign language IMHO is to deal with some of the ethnocentrism that kind of runs rampant among us. And of course making it required means it doesn't work on everyone, but it's worth trying so that we can turn out at least a few fewer annoying stereotypical tourists to piss off the rest of the world.

But we're not; debate and all that is part of English; government is social studies. Money management is not math.

LOL. We are an extremely egotistic culture...but if you don't care about French or Spanish, you're not going to remember a word of it the second you get to drop it. :P

Anila wrote: "And with that I wholeheartedly agree. PE courses, especially in high school, feel often like a concerted attempt to humiliate non-athletes."

It depends on the class. I think my high school did a pretty good job with this because it had such a wide variety of classes. I always hated PE in elementary and middle school for that reason––not necessarily because I hated getting exercise, but because the teachers and other kids always made it into some kind of contest. It was humiliating being yelled at by classmates/teachers because I wasn't as fast/strong/flexible/etc. as the other kids and I would always make my team lose and they'd all hate me and make me cry, etc.

But in high school, I had the option of taking dance and yoga classes, so I took advantage of that. In that case, I actually enjoyed myself because I wasn't competing with other people. I feel like more schools should have options like that. Kids should be taught to exercise because it's healthy and fun, not so they can "beat" someone else.

Rachel: Actually, I disagree - the practical applications of writing aren't pure academia English, which is very much focused on analysis. Government is social studies, yes, but talking about how the individual citizen participates isn't pure academia social studies - been there, studied that, and it's a lot of history as well. Both of those cases are ones where the subject for its own purposes is one thing (which is what I call 'pure academia X') and the subject as it is most likely to apply to the life of someone who doesn't want to pursue it further is the practical aspect. By the same token math for its own purposes, which do happen to include solving real-world problems but the kind that few people actually encounter on a regular basis, is academia mathematics; something which centers around analyzing and manipulating numbers but explicitly serves only practical purposes, which a finance class is, is the parallel to the other things.


Brigid: PE classes like that would be nice, but a lot of schools don't offer them. Mine had aerobics, team sports, and 'integrated PE' which had very little description/publicity but basically involved helping the special ed kids with their PE. I took two semesters of aerobics to satisfy requirements and while it wasn't horrible, it was a lot of unhappy judgemental people and it wasn't a very pleasant thing. I've heard that some high schools offer things like fencing or other sort of 'alternative' sports as PE classes - but actually, if fencing had been available, it wouldn't have taken a credit requirement to get me in the class.

Yeah, I know that ... and I think it really sucks. I didn't like much about my high school, but I was glad they offered so many different kinds of P.E. classes. Of course, most schools probably don't have enough money/teachers/etc. to have so many different classes. :/

I never minded gym much...I was never one of the best, but I never sucked either, and I just stayed out of everyone's way for the most part. Now I'm taking a ballroom dancing class which is awesome ^-^

English is focused on analysis, yes, but lots of other stuff: developing a writing style and clarity and grammar and all. I sort of see what you mean with the government thing. That still parallels 'pure' social studies, though...whereas finance doesn't really parallel math imo :/