Harsh Realism discussion

My book Behind the Hood is full of New Zealand dialect/dialogue, with US and UK sayings as well (but UK spelling). This is because new Zealand was colonised by England, but was conquered by US television :)

So, we can discuss books that show a harsh reality, but also contain dialect/dialogue that is distinctive to a particular region/country. A well-known example is Trainspotting, which I'm going to buy and have a good read over.

Think I have a copy of Trainspotting so I'll join u!

Sharon L. wrote: "Think I have a copy of Trainspotting so I'll join u!"

:) I'm going to order it soon from The Book Depository. Usually I buy ebooks, but I think this one will be more enjoyable in paperback.

I learnt all my German expletives from reading Trainspotting in German. Very handy on the Autobahn ;-]

I use a lot of slang and turns of phrase in my novels. One reviewer from another county said 'that must be the way they talk over where you are'. Another said that a dictionary of Irish slang would be useful. I'm not actually Irish myself, but the way people talk in different localities is a key part of the setting, isn't it?

Ruby wrote: "I learnt all my German expletives from reading Trainspotting in German. Very handy on the Autobahn ;-]

I use a lot of slang and turns of phrase in my novels. One reviewer from another county said ..."

I agree, it does affect the setting. It puts the reader in the mindframe that they are visiting a different country and listening to the locals speak.

Marita wrote: "My book Behind the Hood is full of New Zealand dialect/dialogue, with US and UK sayings as well (but UK spelling). This is because new Zealand was colonised by England, but was conq..."

I like that you have natural sounding New Zealand dialogue in your book Marita. It sounded right. I don't think it's common in New Zealand books to do that. I can only remember Once Were Warriors having natural dialogue as well. I haven't read The Bone People or Whale Rider, so can't comment on those.

Harlen wrote: "Marita wrote: "My book Behind the Hood is full of New Zealand dialect/dialogue, with US and UK sayings as well (but UK spelling). This is because new Zealand was colonised by Englan..."

Ta. I wanted it to sound like New Zealanders speaking, which is why there is "ja" after words with "d," like told ja and didja. Also, "as" at the end for emphasis. I remember I had a British guy confused as to why I had "as" after "hot" in a draft of another book I did. New Zealanders add "as," Singaporeans add "lah," etc. And the way South Aucklanders say "something" is often said as "sumpthin'.

Dialects always fascinate me, but too thick of an accent bounces me out of a book.

Have you ever tried to read The Adventures of Tom Sawyer? The page just drips with dialogue and accents, almost to point of being unreadable.

As a YA writer, I have to actually avoid buzzwords and slang as much as possible to avoid dating the book - what's 'wicked' this year might be 'gay' next.

Also, I try and phonetically sound out my dialect for people not familiar with it. My Leicester, UK, accent, has such delights in it as , 'How much is it?' (As in, how much does it cost?) - we'd say that are-muh-chizit. This has lead a town a few miles east of us - a popular tourist destination for Leicester folk - to name us Chizits.

Interestingly, I'd say didja as well - didya would be the best pronounciation. 'Aren't you' becomes corrupted to 'int-ya'.

When I write, I don't usually drop an apostrophe after the letters I drop - slummin not slummin', for example. Bad grammar, I know, but just a stylistic choice on my part.

Tony wrote: "Dialects always fascinate me, but too thick of an accent bounces me out of a book.

Have you ever tried to read The Adventures of Tom Sawyer? The page just drips with dialogue and accents, almost ..."

New Zealanders use ya too, but not usually after words ending in "d." When we pronounce it, it definitely sounds like a "ja." Would ja, told ja, but ya or you everywhere else. We can use all three variants of "you" in a conversation.

I don't put too many changes in dialogue, only pick the major ones that are distinctly New Zealand. But, there is also a difference between the way some of the characters talk. Whereas one of the Maori boys, such as Nike, might say "wuz" his Samoan wife will say "was."

Marita wrote: "Tony wrote: "Dialects always fascinate me, but too thick of an accent bounces me out of a book.

Have you ever tried to read The Adventures of Tom Sawyer? The page just drips with dialogue and acc..."

Yeah, Kiwis definitely say told ja. And "as." I'm always saying "Sweet as."

Angela wrote: "Marita wrote: "Tony wrote: "Dialects always fascinate me, but too thick of an accent bounces me out of a book.

Have you ever tried to read The Adventures of Tom Sawyer? The page just drips with d..."

Check out this blogpost that I did in relation to dialogue/dialect and the assumptions people make with how other cultures speak:

http://maritaahansen.blogspot.com/201...

Marita wrote: "Angela wrote: "Marita wrote: "Tony wrote: "Dialects always fascinate me, but too thick of an accent bounces me out of a book.

Have you ever tried to read The Adventures of Tom Sawyer? The page ju..."

In your blog you mentioned Aussies butchering words. I remember I was reading John Marsden - Tomorrow when the War Began - and he mentioned a ute. Took me a long time to figure out he mention Utility Vehicle...ie, a pickup truck!

All you gotta do is watch 'Bro Town' to get the NZ'ers. Bro Town is pretty 'choice'

Trainspotting is fantastic. You might find you have to read it aloud to get it at first. Another fantastic example, of a 'language of youth culture' but a past vision of the future is A Clockwork orange.

In my book, it is full of made up words and slang, as well as deliberate errors. It's the 21st century, we can be brave with literature. I think dialects and similar can ad texture.

Tony wrote: "Marita wrote: "Angela wrote: "Marita wrote: "Tony wrote: "Dialects always fascinate me, but too thick of an accent bounces me out of a book.

Have you ever tried to read The Adventures of Tom Sawy..."

New Zealanders use the term ute too. Once I had to figure out the name used overseas when a person from the UK asked me what it meant. It was the only term I'd used for that type of vehicle. We don't call them pick up trucks where I'm from.

Ute-said like-yout

Question is whether to write your dialogue phonetically or not. If slang or turns of phrase are used then that's one thing, but if you go phonetic it can be hard reading.
Take, for example, the way some people say 'the youth' of today. In SE England it might be pronounced 'theh youf'. In Dublin it would be 'der yute'. And the utility vehicle you mentioned, Marita, is that pronounced ute (oot) or yute? Whatever we decide to do, we have to be consistent.
I read a book recently where one character had a Southern US accent and every word of dialogue was written phonetically. Had to give up reading it.

Ute is an abbreviation that has stuck, in the same way as jeep (and abbreviation of G.P. general purpose vehicle), so for me isn't the same as dialect. But slang and dialect have their place for me, it immerses you in the timeline, or culture, or class of the context being read. I want what I read to be almost voyeuristic. Same as how I write, I want to take people to subversive dark places they might not experience. Makes it more genuine for me.

Ruby wrote: "Question is whether to write your dialogue phonetically or not. If slang or turns of phrase are used then that's one thing, but if you go phonetic it can be hard reading.
Take, for example, the wa..."

It's just said like "you" with "ti" or a soft "t" at the end - Yout

same as they say youth in Dublin ;-]

Ruby wrote: "same as they say youth in Dublin ;-]"

Yes :) I've heard that on telly. Now, do people outside of New Zealand call television "telly"?

Marita wrote: "Ruby wrote: "same as they say youth in Dublin ;-]"

Yes :) I've heard that on telly. Now, do people outside of New Zealand call television "telly"?"

we say telly in the north of england UK. :D

Ashleigh wrote: "Marita wrote: "Ruby wrote: "same as they say youth in Dublin ;-]"

Yes :) I've heard that on telly. Now, do people outside of New Zealand call television "telly"?"

we say telly in the north of eng..."

Thanks.

I like how everyone pronounces/says things differently. Though, I can't keep a straight face when Singaporeans say coke. The "e" is silent.

Peyrac wrote: "Marita wrote: "I agree, it does affect the setting. It puts the reader in the mindframe that they are visiting a different country and listening to the locals speak..."

One thing to be careful a..."

That's why I have a British editor. I wanted to make sure he understood it and if he didn't then he asked. He only asked twice what something meant. He guessed by the context for one, but the other he had no idea. It was actually US slang that New Zealanders use also: Swag. I gave the word the full name, swagger, in the end. I've also had an American friend read it and she said she had no problems, but then again South Auckland in New Zealand is heavily influenced by American media.

Peyrac wrote: "Marita wrote: "That's why I have a British editor. I wanted to make sure he understood it and if he didn't then he asked...."

That wasn't how I meant it ;-), but local editors always are excelle..."

The author should know that, the editor may question things, but again, it's down to the author.

I found a Singaporean ad so funny the other day. When you call someone a "lazy cow" in New Zealand it's an insult. But there was this kids' ad in Singapore that said don't be a lazy cow and had a cow doing suggested exercises. My daughter and son all cracked up when they saw it.

Peyrac wrote: "Marita wrote: "I found a Singaporean ad so funny the other day. When you call someone a "lazy cow" in New Zealand it's an insult. But there was this kids' ad in Singapore that said don't be a lazy ..."

lol. Yes, literal translation doesn't always work :) Another example: Finger licking good for Kentucky Fried Chicken doesn't work in Asia, because it translates basically as "Eat your fingers off."