The outsiders discussion

talk about a character from a book who you think is a Mary Sue is and why :)

Um... I wou;d, but I don't now what you mean by that. I feel kinda dumb.

I feel especially dumb looking at that comment and realizing that I spelled Would and Know wrong. I'll blame the keyboard. It really wasn't my fault. :D

don't worry, I don't think I'm familiar with the term "Mary Sue"...

Basically (btw no one is dumb just cause they dont know what a Mary Sue is, don't feel bad, ps i misspell things all the time ha ha, but it for me isn't the keyboard) a character without any flaws.

^^ From that description i would have to say Damen from The Immortals series. He plays the role of the perfect boyfriend, overly smart, gorgeous, sweet, caring, and good at everything.

Yea. In paranormal romance almost every guy is a Gary Stu (male version of Mary Sue).

Edward Cullen.
Bella Swan (Beautiful in Italian).
Every other freakin' character in Twilight.

and Katniss Everdeen started to swerve into the pit of MarySuedom after the Hunger Games, which should have been a stand-alone.

Don't even get me started on Peeta. *facepalm*

I'm gonna have to agree with Allie... even though everyone knows I like Twilight... and the Hunger Games

Allie I respect your opinion but I have to disagree a little. I think Bella has flaws. She is selfish, stubborn, clumsy, dependent of Edward. Plus thoughout the series she goes through character change and a Mary Sue cant do that because a Mary Sue is already perfect. Eclipse she realizes she really loves Jacob more than a friend and in Breaking Dawn she goes from not wanting to have a baby to she would die for it. That is what I think and I think to an existent Mary Sues can be subjective so yeah ;)though I think the Cullen's kinda are and Edward is a Gary Stu. I think a lot of people think Bella is because of what her name means and the fact that she is kind of annoying. After she becomes a vampire she is though.

Oh. Elena from Vampire Diaires is a little at first but she goes through charecters change.....so technically she isn't.

Definately Edward from Twilight, hes so full of Gary Stu, i dont think i know a character more full of it than him. I would also think Dylan from Max Ride is a Gary Stu too, Fang not so much after he left. he's more of an annoying jerk. Also Calla from Nightshade, shes the perfect leader.

The Cullen's pretty much are all Mary Sue/Gary Stus.

another way to characterize a Mary Sue in a novel is if, while reading it, you get a sneaking suspicion that you're just reading the Author's full on fantasy with themselves as the main protagonist.

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with writing something based on what you're into, but when the main character balloons into something impossible and infuriating it IS problematic.

And to expand on the Mary Sueness aspect of that point, it's not so much that the character lacks flaws as it is that they are glorified for no apparent reason (though yes, lacking significant flaws) Just because Bella's flaws are dicussed, I still consider her a Mary Sue because Stephanie Meyers clearly wants these two boys to be in love with herself/Bella even though she gives them almost no reason to.

Clary Fray and Tessa Grey from Cassandra Clare's stuff.

Samantha wrote: "another way to characterize a Mary Sue in a novel is if, while reading it, you get a sneaking suspicion that you're just reading the Author's full on fantasy with themselves as the main protagonist..."

hmm. that is something to think about :) idk, i guess i defend her too much sometimes. but then again, i do think to an exstent they can be subjective because what seems flawless to one person may not seem flawless to someone else :)
and yeah, Clary Fray is kinda a Mary Sue, i haven't read the other series by CC though so i dont know about Tessa Grey.

Cat wrote: "i haven't read the other series by CC though so i dont know about Tessa Grey.
"

Tessa is actually pretty much a blank slate. She has a backstory and the single required trait by which to completely define herself, clary liked drawing, Tessa likes to read, classics, poetry, everything.

Much like how Bella's one hobby was to read classics if I remember correctly.

After rereading the first and checking out the second, I would say that Infernal Devices is more mature and a little better written, even though it is entirely reminiscent of The Mortal Instruments.