Robert E. Howard Readers discussion

Well I guess most will plump for S&S, but lets see if anyone is inclined in a different direction!

Do you prefer Howard's S&S, his Westerns, fight stories, or anything else?

I have a keen interest in his poetry, and mainly read the S&S stuff, but I will read just about any of Howard's work. I do struggle with the fight stories though!

The Incredible Adventures of Dennis Dorgan were a fun set of fight stories by Robert E. Howard. I've read 'The Iron Men' as a separate book. It's been years & I couldn't find it separate from 'Dennis Dorgan' here on GR, but as I recall it was 4 or 5 short stories. I might be getting it confused with a similar book by Edgar Rice Burroughs, though.

The Conan stories will always be my favorite by him. I think 'Beyond the Black River' is one of the best. As a little kid, I remember seeing my father's Lancer paperbacks of Conan the Warrior & Conan: Conan the Usurper. The cover art was done by Frank Frazetta.

Those covers fired my imagination & made me want to be able to read soooo badly! My dad would read some to me, but he wasn't around much. The little he'd describe or read to me though was magical.

I just re-read Beyond The Black River a couple of weeks ago, and yes it certainly stands the re-reading.


I actually read it on my smartphone, which is not a great way to read Howard, but when you don't have an actual book handy it's better than nothing!

For me it's Howard's S&S all the way. Mainly Conan.

Black River has to be one of Howard's best stories, and probably one of the best for the entire genre, imo.

Sometimes it's good to grab a few passages of REH reading in the middle of the day. Nice break from the IT realities of the day job

I'm in IT as well, John & agree with you. One thing I try to do daily is leave the building (just outside to my truck) & read a fantasy book for 30 minutes or so. It makes a huge difference in my attitude & abilities.

If I eat at my desk or in the lunch room, there are always people who are "sorry to bother you, but just a real quick question" that is rarely quick or simple & always distracting. Or the phone or email or server alert or SOMETHING has to interrupt my reverie. The escape, relaxation & lack of thinking is just what I need to recharge.

I'm also in IT. I can sometimes get some reading done at lunch but usually it seems like people view an open book as an invitation to talk to me.

This should come as no surprise from my track record, but I am an unapologetic fan of Howard's boxing fiction and his humorous work (both boxing and western). I think that, given the amount of boxing fiction that he wrote, and for long a period as he did, that to overlook it in one's estimation of Howard as an author is a serious mistake.

The boxing fiction was commercially and critically successful for him; he went back to the genre twice in his career. He wrote more boxing fiction than any other genre, with the funny westerns of Breck Elkins coming in second.

Also, I think it's possible to hear and to an extent "see" more of REH in the boxing fiction. Particularly in the Sailor Steve Costigan stories. I put forth the idea in "Blood & Thunder" that because of Howard's skill at "tall lying" that he was actually a lot closer to Costigan in his own mind than some of his other characters; there's an intimacy there--self-deprecating and hyperbolic at the same time--that makes the Costigan stories stand out sharply against his other work.

Mark Finn

Problem with reading at lunch is that it makes it difficult to return to work. You enter a world of danger and adventure and then bam, back to mundane reality.

John wrote: "Problem with reading at lunch is that it makes it difficult to return to work. You enter a world of danger and adventure and then bam, back to mundane reality. "

Not only that, but when I get in a good part or have just a 'few' pages left in a book, returning to work is very difficult. I get an hour for lunch, usually only take 40 minutes, so occasionally I'll stretch it, but I usually feel guilty & can't concentrate as well.

Mark, I understand your points on REH's boxing and western stories, but I'm not drawn to them simply because they occur in the 'real world.'

Howard was so good with Conan that there's no lure to return to reality, though it is in a past reality. Not to say I don't read reality-based fiction because I do, but I'm too enamored with the escapism afforded by Howard's prowess in Hyboria, different enough from our world serve as a temporary pass outta here.

I've been a Howard fan for over 40 years (showing my age here) and I'll always hold a fond spot for his sword and sorcery stories, especially the Solomon Kane, Kull, James Allison remebrance stories, and some of the Conan stories, but as I've gotten older I've really really become a fan of his humorous stories, both boxing and western, to the point that I'd say they are my favorites now.

I just finished reading The Best of Robert E. Howard: Crimson Shadows. I was very impressed by the selection of stories. Seemed to have some of each of his various types & very good ones.

I just finished reading The Best of Robert E. Howard Volume 2: Grim Lands which was sent to me by a dear friend here on GR, Jon. Wow! I found several more stories that I hadn't read before. I really enjoyed the order & mixture of the different genres. The intro & appendices were also interesting.

Until I read the first book's intro, I had thought most of REH's funny fight stories were about Dennis Dorgan because I read the book The Incredible Adventures of Dennis Dorgan. Turns out only 1 story sent to Weird Tales used that name for that character. All the rest were about Steve Costigan & they must have replaced the name in the book. Odd thing to do. Did they think the alliterative name would sell better?

Solomon Kane by a long shot! I also have a soft spot for the Steve Harrison stories and the few weird westerns I have read so far. And then of course Conan.

Jim wrote: "I just finished reading [b:The Best of Robert E. Howard Volume 2: Grim Lands|409765|The Best of Robert E. Howard Volume 2: Grim Lands|Robert E. Howard|http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51..."

Actually, the reason for the name change was editorial policy. There was already a Robert E. Howard story in Magic Carpet, and since Costigan was part of the Fight Story and Action Story family, he changed Costigan to Dorgan and his own name to Patrick Ervin. It was a quick substitution for a quick sale. Dorgan was never supposed to be "another sailor," he was always Costigan in literary disguise.

Funny how things work out, eh?

Thanks, Mark. That is interesting & makes sense. I read the introduction to The Incredible Adventures of Dennis Dorgan & it turns out there is only one published DD story, but lots of unpublished ones. Several were accepted but never got published.

Pike Bearfield in "Gents on the Lynch" in "Grim Lands" was very reminiscent of Breckenridge Elkins from A Gent From Bear Creek. It did have a lot of similarities & it turns out that Pike is the Dennis Dorgan of his funny westerns for the same reason, as I suspected after reading your post. I missed that in the introduction to 'Grim Lands' somehow.

I was worried that the editors had messed up his stories, although I don't know why. I've enjoyed a lot of the partial stories finished by others. I think I've mentioned how I liked "King Kull" better when finished up by DeCamp & Carter than the one that had the straight Howard partials.

My favorite by Howard has always been Conan. I agree that "Beyond the Black River" is one of the best. I like "Tower of the Elephant" and in my opinion it's the best story to start a newcomer with. "Black Stranger" is a personal favorite because I love the "pirates" and "Indians" plot and love the way he strings it all together. Particularly the stand off he creates between the Conan, the pirates and Zingaran Nobleman. I also love El Borak and Solomon Kane. I agree with Steven. As I've gotten older (55) I am finding the humorous fight stories and westerns fast becoming much more important than they used to be to me. They are LOL entertaining. My 14 year old son has been reading "A Gent from Bear Creek" (Donald M Grant edition) and he loves it!

My favorite of Howard's works are his historical fiction stuff in The Sowers of the Thunder.

for myself, in addition to the Conan stories, the El Borak stories (adult) get my vote, plus the historicals in SOWERS OF THE THUNDER.

Fortunately, with Howard, it's kind of "I like this stuff slightly better than some other stuff," but it's almost all pretty darn good.

I agree, Charles.

My fav genres are his historical fiction,his horror and his Sword and Sorcery in that order.

My fav series,characters are El Borak just before Solomon Kane,third place Conan.

Although i think he usually brilliant at his best no matter the genre. His historical stories,adventure was written late in his career,at his most mature writing.

Definitely Mohammed. That's part of the reason his loss was so tragic. He was still growing as a writer.

Yeah reading an early story and reading his last works its very clear his growth as a writer.

I feel sad many times just thinking about the potential lost.

Just dropped by this thread... Would you call Solomon Kane S&S or Horror? I (like most others I suppose) must rate Conan as his (over-all) top creation, but I find Kane a close second and at times a little better.

I think one of the key elements to Sword and sorcery IS the element of horror that is brought in. It's a combination of fantasy, horror, and history that makes it's so compelling. So Howard does use horror tropes in his work, and it certainly shows up in Kane, but the tropes, such as vampires, are used slightly differently than in pure horror and are combined with historical and fantasy elements.

I haven't read the Solomon Kane stories (I want to!), but I know that they're set in the real 17th-century world. So for what it's worth, I'd call them "horror" (though I prefer the term "supernatural fiction"). In my lexicon, S & S is a branch of fantasy, which means a fantasy world. (Okay, Conan supposedly lived in our world long ago --but the Hyborean world bears only an imaginative relationship to any actual reality. :-)) Of course, those kinds of definitions are just my idiosyncratic opinions --but when you ask a bunch of fans for a classification, all of your answers pretty much boil down to somebody's opinion!

They definitely cross the subgenres, but yes, it's fun to debate the lines but it's really just a matter of opinion.

Werner wrote: "I haven't read the Solomon Kane stories (I want to!), but I know that they're set in the real 17th-century world. So for what it's worth, I'd call them "horror" (though I prefer the term "supernatu..."

You need to read up on S&S imo. Sword and Sorcery was fantasy and horror in Pulp era. Conan,Kane are full fantasy with horror elements. Calling Kane horror is like saying Kull,Conan is horror and not fantasy.

Real world setting doesnt make anything less than fantasy. There are many famous fantasy set in real world setting. Urban fantasy for example.

Kane is S&S with historical setting. Just like David Gemmell,Tim Powers books.

Reading REH's strictly horror stories show what he is like when he isnt writing S&S with horror elements.

In Del Rey's, The Horror Stories of Robert E. Howard, among a number of Howard's horror yarns such as "The Horror from the Mound," "Pigeons from Hell," and "Black Canann," there are two Solomon Kane tales.

I think that was partly influenced by the fact that Howard's specifically horror stories are often fairly short and they wouldn't have had enough to fill a book of just straight horror. But Howard included horror elements in almost all his fantasy so one could safely include some of the stories in that kind of book, even if, to me, they aren't 'primarily' horror.

Charles wrote: "I think that was partly influenced by the fact that Howard's specifically horror stories are often fairly short and they wouldn't have had enough to fill a book of just straight horror. But Howard..."

Yeah horror was important to him. In his letters to his friends he wrote alot about what he thought about Machen,Poe etc

Horror collection by Del Rey is simply amazing. Reading vampire,werewolf,weird westerns stories by REH is something.

I suppose that if we want to be precise, fantasy would be the genre and then you'd have a number of sub-genres below it. You could break it up many ways, High Fantasy, Sword and Sorcery, Horror/Supernatural fiction (though horror fantasy doesn't necessarily need to be supernatural I suppose)etc.

Mike wrote: "I suppose that if we want to be precise, fantasy would be the genre and then you'd have a number of sub-genres below it. You could break it up many ways, High Fantasy, Sword and Sorcery, Horror/Sup..."

Horror was a sub-genre of fantasy 100 years back. It got bigger later to become its own genre.

These days Fantasy and Horror are not connected as much as before. Many fantasy that lack horror elements and many horror that lack supernatural,fantasy elements.

Maybe thats why i prefer classic horror when there were no realistic horror but supernatural,fantasy elements.

Mohammed, I'm sure I'd benefit from reading up much more on the early modern pulp era. And I do see your point: while all three have their unique personalities, as I understand it, Solomon Kane is, like Conan and Kull, a tough fighter who wanders the wilder parts of his world having violent action adventures usually with supernatural components. So I can certainly understand how it might seem silly and pedantic to split these very similar types of tales into different genres based just on setting.

As far as "urban fantasy" goes, I use the accepted terminology, too, and even put some of the books on my fantasy shelf --but I'm a heretic there, too; if it was up to me, I'd classify all of those as "supernatural fiction" because of the setting. (At least I'm a consistent heretic! :-)) True, the same authors often write in both genres; but at least to me, there's a very real conceptual difference between, say, Charles de Lint's Newford tales and other-world fantasy like The Harp of the Grey Rose (probably more so than between the average Solomon Kane story and the typical Conan yarn, though I can't say!), even if the same person wrote them.

"Horror," IMO, has one big flaw as a genre label --it tells us the intended reader reaction, but nothing else about the work itself. It's applied to all sorts of literature that can evoke horror, from gory slasher tales about naturalistic serial killers to sedate ghost stories; for me, the range covered by the rubric includes so many wildly dissimilar things that it's not useful for literary comparison. It seems to me that grouping literary works by their objective commonalities of subject matter makes more sense than going by subjective reader reactions.

Now, I'll get off my favorite hobby horse, and put it back in the stable for some needed hay and a rub-down. :-)

Well, most of it "now-days" is convenience. If we simply lump all the fantasy sub-genres into fantasy it wouldn't be quite as easy to find books that "resemble" other books we've liked. :) Don't know that it works all that well, but it's how we think. I'd never really heard of "Urban Fantasy" until I discovered I really like the Harry Dresden books by Jim Butcher. Since then, I've tried several Urban Fantasy authors, but haven't liked any of them as well as Butcher. I do however like Butcher's Codex Alera novels which are traditional fantasy, striving toward High Fantasy..... wonder if I should learn something from that? :)

Interesting stuff. The lot of you raise fascinating and valid points. As for me, I label a story based on how it makes me feel emotionally. For instance, stories like "The Horror from the Mound," and "Pigeons from Hell," make my skin crawl. They are the kind of tale that sends fear down your spine on little lizard feet. Howard's Solomon Kane stories, or a tale like "Worms of the Earth," however, do not have this affect on me. The horror element is definitely in them, but it's not the same... not for me anyway. Perhaps this is right: when you get down to it, it's really a matter of the reader's opinion. There might be a Howard reader out there who thinks "Skulls in the Stars" is the most horrifying tale ever penned.

Werner wrote: "Mohammed, I'm sure I'd benefit from reading up much more on the early modern pulp era. And I do see your point: while all three have their unique personalities, as I understand it, Solomon Kane is..."

There are many more different types of fantasy than there is horror. Horror often there is the slasher,S.King kind or the more cerebral horror kind. Doesnt matter which book it is it must try to scare you in the hole book.


To me i only have shelfs for the type of fantasy i read. I have same shelf for old S&S and new S&S/Heroic fantasy. I have Science fantasy,Steampunk,Weird in the same shelf. Than the rest of fantasy in one shelf. Literary fantasy,urban,historical it doesnt matter.

It depends on what i like reading. I only care about subgenres to find what i like to read. I know i can only find REH S&S from 1930s-1980s fantasy.

Charles Saunders,Tanith Lee must be the last old school S&S. There is new anthologies but not often novel contracted writers.

By the way, I just did a five part series on my blog discussing the differences between S & S, Sword and Planet, High fantasy, and heroic historical. If anyone is interested in checking them out the blog is at http://charlesgramlich.blogspot.com

I also just had a collection of mostly S&S stories published, with a few high fantasy type elements in some stories. It's called Bitter Steel and I talk about it on the blog and in some of the posts on the subgenres of fantasy.

The lines do blur sometimes. Conan is definitely S & S. But what about Bran Mak Morn? Its set in Roman-era Britain, but does contain supernatural and fantastic elements. Solomon Kane as well.
On the other hand, Howard's medieval adventure stories are pure historical fiction.
And what about Tarzan, doesnt fit really into any of those 4 categories?
Perhaps "Lost Race/Lost Civilization a la Haggard, Merritt and much of Burroughs constitutes a separate category. And then there is what I call "Prehistorical Fiction" , everything from Jack London's Before Adam, on through Jean Auel's Earth's Children series and William Sarabande's First American Series.
And "Lost Prehistoric Worlds" like Pellucidar and Arthur Conan Doyle's The Lost World could argubly be called another.
And there is the "alternate history" genre of people like Harry Turtledove..

Patrick wrote: "The lines do blur sometimes. Conan is definitely S & S. But what about Bran Mak Morn? Its set in Roman-era Britain, but does contain supernatural and fantastic elements. Solomon Kane as well.
On ..."

I call Bran Mark Morn and Solomon Kane as Historical S&S. Its real historical setting,people but also has fantasy,horror elements of a S&S.

A great combo by REH. I enjoy those stories and his historical fiction set in crusade days more than most of his fiction. El Borak is my nr.1 fav genre of his though.

I posted in the Intro topic that Howard's books were free from Project Gutenberg at Gutenberg.org. Oops! Only "Red Nails" is. I KNEW I got a bunch of his books from Gutenberg, though. So I went looking. There are a bunch more in the Aussie version of Gutenberg.net.au

http://gutenberg.net.au/plusfifty-a-m...
gets you to the page, then scroll down just a little ways for Howard's books.

Here's a list of what's available:

The 'Solomon Kane' Stories:--

Skulls in the Stars (1929)
The Footfalls Within (1931)
The Moon of Skulls (1930)
The Hills of the Dead (1930)
Wings in the Night (1932)
Rattle of Bones
Red Shadows

The 'El Borak' Srories--

The Daughter of Erlik Khan (1934)
Hawk of the Hills (1935)
Blood of the Gods (1935)
Son Of The White Wolf (1936)
The Country of The Knife (1937)

The 'Conan' Stories:--

The Phoenix on the Sword (1932)
The Scarlet Citadel (1933)
The Tower of the Elephant (1933)
Black Colossus (1933)
The Slithering Shadow (1933)
The Pool of the Black One (1933)
Gods of the North (1934)
Rogues in the House (1934)
Shadows in the Moonlight (1934)
Queen of the Black Coast (1934)
The Devil in Iron (1934)
The People of the Black Circle (1934)
A Witch Shall be Born(1934)
Jewels of Gwahlur (1935)
Beyond the Black River (1935)
Shadows in Zamboula (1935)
Red Nails (1936)
The Hour of the Dragon (novel) (1936)
The Hyborian Age (1938)
An essay pertaining to the Hyborian Age, the fictional setting of the stories about Conan

The 'James Allison' Stories:--

The Valley of the Worm (1934)
The Garden of Fear (1934)

Other Stories:--

Ace Jessel - Apparition In the Prize Ring
Alleys of Darkness
Alleys of Peril
Almuric
Bran Mak Morn - Worms of the Earth
Bran Mak Morn - The Lost Race
Breckenridge Elkins - Evil Deeds at Red Cougar
Breckenridge Elkins - A Gent From Bear Creek (Novella)
Breckenridge Elkins - A Gent From Bear Creek (Short Story)
Breckenridge Elkins - Cupid From Bear Creek
Breckenridge Elkins - Guns of the Mountains
Breckenridge Elkins - High Horse Rampage
Breckenridge Elkins - Mountain Man
Breckenridge Elkins - No Cowherders Wanted
Breckenridge Elkins - Pilgrims To the Pecos
Breckenridge Elkins - Texas John Alden
Breckenridge Elkins - While Smoke Rolled
Breckenridge Elkins - Pistol Politics
Breckenridge Elkins - Sharp's Gun Serenade
Breckenridge Elkins - The Apache Mountain War
Breckenridge Elkins - The Conquerin' Hero of the Humbolts
Breckenridge Elkins - The Feud Buster
Breckenridge Elkins - The Haunted Mountain
Breckenridge Elkins - The Riot at Cougar Paw
Breckenridge Elkins - The Road to Bear Creek
Breckenridge Elkins - The Scalp Hunter
Breckenridge Elkins - War On Bear Creek
Brock Rollins - The Tomb's Secret
Champ of the Forecastle
Circus Fists
Conrad and Kinrowan - The Children of the Night
Conrad and Kinrowan - The Haunter of the Ring
Cormac Fitzgeoffrey - Hawks of Outremer
Cormac Fitzgeoffrey - The Blood of Belshazzar
Cthulhu Mythos - The Black Stone
Cthulhu Mythos - The Fire of Asshurbanipal
Cthulhu Mythos - The Thing On the Roof
Cupid vs Pollux
De Montour - In the Forest of Villefere
De Montour - Wolfshead
Fantasy Adventure - Black Canaan
Fantasy Adventure - The House of Arabu
Fantasy Adventure - People of the Dark
Fantasy Adventure - The Voice of El-Lil
Fantasy Adventure - Spear and Fang
Faring Town Saga - Sea Curse
Fist and Fang
General Ironfist
Historical Adventure - Gates of Empire
Historical Adventure - Lord of Samarcand
Historical Adventure - The Lion of Tiberias
Historical Adventure - The Sowers of the Thunder
Horror - The Cairn on the Headland
Horror - The Dream Snake
Horror - The Fearsome Touch of Death
Horror - The Hyena
Kirby O'Donnell - The Treasures of Tartary
Kull - The Shadow Kingdom
Kull - The Mirrors of Tuzun Thune
Kull and Bran Mak Morn - Kings of the Night
Night of Battle
Old Garfield's Heart
Red Sonya - The Shadow of the Vulture
Sailors' Grudge
She Devil
Sluggers on the Beach
Steve Costigan - Blow the Chinks Down!
Steve Costigan - Breed of Battle
Steve Costigan - Dark Shanghai
Steve Costigan - The Pit of the Serpent
Steve Costigan - The Sign of the Snake
Steve Costigan - The TNT Punch
Steve Harrison - Fangs of Gold
Steve Harrison - Graveyard Rats
Steve Harrison - Names in The Black Book
Terence Vulmea - Black Vulmea's Vengeance
Texas Fists
The Bull Dog Breed
The Iron Man
The Man on the Ground
The Slugger's Game
Turlogh Dubh O'Brien - The Dark Man
Turlogh Dubh O'Brien - The Gods of Bal-Sagoth
Vikings of the Gloves
Waterfront Fists
Weird Southwest - Pigeons from Hell (1938)
Weird Southwest - The Horror From The Mound
Weird Menace - Black Talons
Weird Menace - Moon of Zambebwei
Weird Menace - Skull-Face
Weird Menace - Black Wind Blowing
Western - Boot Hill Payoff
Western - The Vultures of Whapeton
Wild Bill Clanton - The Purple Heart of Erlik (Nothing to Lose) (1936)
Winner Take All

I haven't read most of these stories direct from Gutenberg, so I don't know which edition they are. I do see that the Steve Costigan stories are all named for him & not renamed & reworked into Dennis Dorgan as they are in my old Zebra edition. Maybe they're pretty original.

I have 2 versions of the Kull book. The Lancer edition that I fell in love with is 'edited' by L.Sprague DeCamp & Lyn Carter, I believe. When I say edited, I mean they finished stories & added at least one. (The Conan story "Phoenix on the Sword" was done with Kull in it.)

I loaned that edition to my cousin & he never returned it, so I bought another. It wasn't nearly as complete. Some stories were just fragments. While truer to the author, I didn't like it as much, so I searched out & bought the Lancer edition again.

Anyway, that's something to keep in mind - the stories we fell in love with might not be the same as what someone else read. There's been a lot of work done in Howard's name that isn't. Well, the rest of you probably know that. I constantly forget. For me, the old Lancer editions seem to be The Edition. They were my first love.
;-)

I agree Jim, on the Lancer books. I like the original Howard books and stories (assuming that the editions I have really are such) but I read the Lancers as they came out back in the 70s and have most if not all still on my shelves (I'd have to double check to see if I have any holes in the collection, I don't think I do.) :)

My favorites are the Berkley editions edited by Karl Edward Wagner, although they are incomplete, or the most recent editions with are edited generally by Rusty Burke,

Today is simple its not the 60s you dont read non-Howard.

Howard own real versions dominate the books in print.

I was a fan of the Sword & Sorcery writings at first, then I grew to love the Horror stories, then read the superb Historical tales. Recently I would put the Boxing tales towards the top of the tales, Steve Costigan stories are very entertaining. Even enjoy the "Spicy" tales of Wild Bill Clanton. Whatever genre Howard worked in, he did it well.

I still dont get what is "Spicy" i hear it often with REH but i have never read what kind of story it is. I see a hero of his called Gorman that he didnt finish a story and that it was a "spicy" story but it sounded like adventure like El Borak.

Mohammed, the term "spicy" is supposed to represent stories that have more overt sexual activity or innuendos in them. However, the "spicy" stories of Howard's day would be incredibly tame by today's standards. But by the standards of the time they suggested and hinted at more sex than the usual stories.

At the time implied sex was the order of the day. Look at the covers of the pulp mags and the paperbacks that were on the stands. Most featured women in various stages of undress and in some kind of peril. Howard was know (interestingly enough) for writing "racy" stories though as Charles noted, today they wouldn't raise an eyebrow. I don't know if that's a good thing, but it true. :)