Should have read classics discussion

I just noticed that William Shakespeare was born and died in April. So in honor of The Bard, I thought that I would give him the honor he is due and declare April, Shakespeare month! Ok, that is a bit grandiose, but since most of us had to read him at some time in our educational careers, I thought I would open a discussion for the wonderful Bard. Do you have any fond memories, favorite plays, sonnets or quotes from this writer? Any ideas on the controversy surrounding who actually wrote those works? Let's give a wonderful round of applause to a writer who changed the literary world!

Well, that's a broad enough topic!

Favorite plays: For me, King Lear is the top of the heap. (My least favorite of the major plays is Othello -- I find the cruelty in that play just too painful to endure.) I suppose I should love Hamlet, and I do really like some of what's in it, but overall I don't find the play that satisfactory, and I find it in some places more contrived than the other plays.

I am also quite fond of most of the history plays; they aren't performed that often, but there is a great deal more than mere history in them. They have, for me, a lot to say about how power is gained and lost, used and abused, which speaks to power far beyond the specific incidents the plays include.

Authorship? First, it doesn't matter much to me. It is the plays that matter, not who wrote them. And second, I have never seen any reason to believe that Shakespeare didn't write the plays other than pure elitism (people who refuse to believe, for example, that son of a glove maker who never attended university could know so much about how kings think.) On the contrary, we have specific accounts of people who actually saw Shakespeare write at least some of the plays. But some people just do love a conspiracy, don't they?

On the topicof who wrote what, I agree with Everyman. But my take is like Apple vs. Microsoft. Apple may have been first, but Microsoft marketed it better.

Shakespeare died April 24th I believe. I guess my favorite that I have read is probably the least favorite by many, The Merchant of Venice. I love the female characters and their roles in the whole debacle.
My favorite quote surrounding Shakespeare is, "Shakespeare should be heard not read." "Exit, persued by Bear."..lol

I love Shakespeare. My favorite is definitely Hamlet, which doesn't really set me apart from many people (I think Hamlet may be the favorite of most people.)

But there are some plays that I LOVE which are not considered his best, such as:
Cymbeline
Troilus and Cressida
All's Well That Ends Well

In fact, Shakespeare has three "problem plays" and it's possible all three of these (just listed) are his problem plays. (I have to look it up to confirm which three, but I'm positive Troilus and Cressida is considered one of the problem plays, and it's possible the other two I listed might also fall into that category. I'm going to look it up.

I guess the point is, these are definitely not even close to being his most popular plays, but if I had to pick my top 10 (.... or maybe my top 15) Shakespeare plays, they would make the list.

I also LOVE:
Richard III
A Midsummer Night's Dream
Romeo and JulietHamlet

King Lear is another one of my favorites. In fact, Hamlet, Richard III, and King Lear are probably my top three, in that order.

I agree with Everyman about Othello. Everyman said: "I find the cruelty in that play too painful to endure." I could not have said it better myself -- this is EXACTLY how I feel about Othello, and therefore I really don't like the play.

Tammy's favorite, The Merchant of Venice, is an extremely interesting story, and I completely agree that the female characters are absolutely fantastic. The only problem I have with the Merchant of Venice is that I think during the courtroom scene they went a bit too far in their punishment of "the merchant" (I can't remember the character's name at the moment!!!) The ending is happy for everyone, but it kind of bothered me that the merchant's daughter turned against her own father and there was no reconciliation at the end (as far as I can remember -- it's been a long time since I've read this play or seen a production of it.) It would have been nice if the ending showed him moving on with his life as a better person, due to what he learned from the events that took place. After all, The Merchant of Venice is considered a "comedy" so shouldn't there be a happy ending for all?? Shakespeare certainly gives us PLENTY of plays with tragic endings!!!

Anyway, I'm going to look up the three "problem plays" and come back and post them.

I hope more people participate in this "sharing" of favorite Shakespeare plays!!! (By the way, I didn't mention the poems or sonnets here because, although I've read them, and for as much as I recognize how wonderful his sonnets are, I have never been able to appreciate the poems or sonnets as much as the plays.)

Great topic with all this Shakespeare talk. My in person book club just finished Much Ado About Nothing and we had a good discussion about the meaning of the title and especially about Beatrice's character. We briefly discussed the question of authorship and it seemed most people didn't care much about it but I'll have to admit that I found it interesting. Not that I want to believe in a conspiracy theory as such but the mystery and interesting connections/coincidences...with Edward de Vere are fun to ponder and it does make you wonder a bit. Also, my son had to read a kid's book called Shakespeare's Secret which is a fun mystery and it discussed some of the ideas behind this question of authorship also. When I was in high school no one breathed a word about the possibility that William Shakespeare didn't really write all these dramatic and tragic literary treasures.

I am not sure if I have a favorite Shakespearean play. I do remember that our 9th grade English lit teacher had us read aloud Romeo and Juliet after we read West Side Story and saw the movie. I think that helped us all understand the language, plot, and themes better. I wish I could thank him in person for doing that.

William Shakespeare is my favourite author of all times. I worship his plays and his poetry. I have been reading his works since I was fifteen years old, I started with “Romeo and Juliet” and with “A Midsummer Night’s Dream”, and from them on I couldn’t stop reading most of his works. Now, that I am 22, I am re-reading some of his works. I am trying to read chronologically his plays, in order to understand his artistic progress and the development of his works.
Aware of the different views and discussions on the matter of his or not his authorship, I have come to the conclusion that he is a real person, and that he has created all of his works (based on folk tales and history, of course) without exception. Even though, we don’t know a lot about his life, I believe firmly that he existed, and that he wrote, directed and performed his plays.

Said that, I will try to summarize my love for his works, in a list:
Favourite Romance: The Tempest (It is also my favourite play of William Shakespeare)
Favourite Comedy: Twelve Night or What You Will (It also contains my favourite Shakespearean female character Viola)
Favourite Tragedy: Macbeth (Although I considered Othello as the best accomplished tragedy, and I love Iago, Macbeth is so violent, so strong, so poetic, that for me it is the best work of my beloved Shakespeare)
Favourite Historical Play: Richard III (“My kingdom for a horse, my kingdom for a horse” is such a wonderful quote, that resumes all that happens during the play. Definitely my favourite)
Favourite female character:
Favourite male character:
Favourite villain: Iago (He is the personification of all that is vile and evil in human nature, he is a great character)
Least favourite play: Hamlet (Even though, it is considered one of the best of William Shakespeare, I considered it is the worst work of Shakespeare. The play is not accomplished: it takes too long for the real action to start. Hamlet for me is a pathetic character who seems unable to make a decision of his own, and because of his indecision many died. All in all, I do not like it)
Other works I like: Othello, The Merchant of Venice, Cymbeline, All's Well That Ends Well.

My favourite sonnet:

XXIII
As an unperfect actor on the stage,
Who with his fear is put besides his part,
Or some fierce thing replete with too much rage,
Whose strength's abundance weakens his own heart;
So I, for fear of trust, forget to say
The perfect ceremony of love's rite,
And in mine own love's strenght seem to decay,
O'ercharg'd with burden of mine own love's might.
O! let my books be then the eloquence
And dumb presagers of my speaking breast,
Who plead for love, and look for recompense,
More than that tongue that more hath express,d
O! learn to read what silent love hath writ:
To hear with eyes belongs to love's fine wit.

Andrea, ditch the Olivier interpretation of Hamlet as indecisive and start over.

The wonder of this play is the number of currents running through it. Forget everything you've ever heard about Hamlet's motivations and try to figure out, scene by scene, what is going on in Hamlet's head. The story is not as simple as his not being able to make up his mind.

Killing Claudius would have made this a straight up revenge play. Hamlet is not a straight up revenge hero, though. Killing a blood uncle you have known all your life is not a simple thing, even if you are sure he murdered your father. And Hamlet is not entirely sure the ghost thing is proof enough. Even when he is absolutely sure, he has trouble working up the nerve to kill Claudius in cold blood. That makes him human. And humane. Not indecisive.
Remember, Claudius is ruthless, but he's not a bad king, and he does try to mollify Hamlet before deciding to do away with him. Claudius seems to genuinely love Gertrude. Claudius is not an unmitigated villain, like Iago. In some ways, Hamlet struggles more with his mother's marriage to Claudius--which he cannot understand and is disgusted by--than by Claudius's murder of the elder Hamlet--which is, hey, run of the mill in royal families, right?

An interesting thing about Hamlet: Claudius yanked the thrown out from under him, with Gertrude's assistance. The Danish throne was electoral, I believe, so the succession would have been decided by the court, not necessarily by birth. It would have been natural for Hamlet to take his father's place, but he apparently did not challenge Claudius's power play. Claudius's marriage to Gertrude would have solidified his position politically, so Gertie is as guilty as Claudius as far as blocking Hamlet's election. How much of this galls Hamlet? How much does it feed into his feelings about his mother? Does it help explain why he doesn't trust Ophelia? Or R & G? Just because he's paranoid doesn't mean everybody isn't out to get him.

But does Hamlet really want to be king? He loved being a study abroad student. He seems comfortable only in the company of Horatio and the players. He is happy and firing away on all six cylinders only when he is authoring and directing the play-within-a-play and maybe again when he is fencing with Laertes, whom he respects and wishes to reconcile with after the totally regrettable Ophelia thing.
Fortinbras seems to think that Hamlet would have made a good king--the audience might disagree. Except, Hamlet makes remarks throughout the play that show he has a real interest in Denmark's welfare. His "e'en for an eggshell" moments can be interpreted as somber consideration of difficult issues rather than indecision. As he lays dying he is careful to make his recommendations for Denmark's succession--dry stuff for a drama queen who has plenty to complain about before he dies. His last duty is to Denmark.

In my book, Hamlet is the most real of Shakespeare's characters because he is so contradictory and tangled up in doubt and despair and longing for things that are out of his reach--like Ophelia (who as Polonius correctly points out, he cannot marry) and a career in the theater. When he tries to take action, he merely flails, and ends up harming people he has no wish to hurt. When he searches for wisdom or awaits the opportune moment, he is beset with self-loathing for wasting time and avoiding his bloody filial duty. As a revenge hero, he's a shlamazzle. If he had been born into a dull play about a relatively competent king/patron of the arts, he would have been exemplary.

Of course, everything above can be interpreted differently, which is why you can see Hamlet over and over and never see the same play twice. In the end, Hamlet is inexplicable because Shakespeare withheld key information about his character, about Claudius, Gertrude, the Ghost, and even R & G. The whole play turns on what you fill in the blanks with.

That Shakespeare guy was really good.