Rated YA-MA discussion

I recently got into a discussion on a friend's review about spoilers.

In my opinion, I consider a spoiler to be a major plot point, something that could potentially spoil your enjoyment of the book or series. I do not consider random and/or smaller plot points to be spoilers.

I've been noticing lately that some people either mark every single plot point as a spoiler, even stuff that isn't, or they tell all in a review. I actually did read a review once that went on to tell me how one of the characters killed just about everyone, even though the book summary didn't clue me in to the fact that the main character was a killer.

These are a few things which I would consider to be a spoiler :

The death of a character

Who a girl picks in a love triangle

How a book ends

An event which causes a major change of direction for the book or series

A character change happening in a later book of a series that isn't present in the first book. For example, a person is turned into a vampire in book 3 of a series but everyone talks about it to the person who is only reading book 1.

Things I do not consider to be spoilers :

Something that happens within the first few pages or first chapter of a book that a reader would find out about within a minute or two of picking up the book.

Anything which echoes the book summary/description on the book flap. If you could find it out by reading the book summary, then it's not technically a "reveal." If a book summary talks about the main character being a witch, then I happen to mention that the character enrolled in magic school, then we're not really treading on major spoiler territory.

Random plot points not effecting the outcome of the book, i.e. two best friends run into the boy they like at the store. Or, girl goes on a vacation for a month, etc.

......

What are everyone else's thoughts on spoilers?

I probably don't need to remind people not to take the discussion too seriously, but just in case...

I seriously doubt there'd be any arguments in this group but it's easy to see how this type of discussion could have vastly differing opinions. Please be respectful of each other's opinions. This discussion is just for fun! :)

I agree with the major plot points. I would like to add things that seem minor or random at the time but have a lasting impact or recurring theme throughout, I consider those spoilers. Finding out little things doesn't bother me, and sometimes a bit of a spoiler helps me get through a part (or a book mid-series) because I know that I'm going to like what's to come. I read the entire series of Riley Jensen knowing who she ended up with because I found out in a thread after reading the first book. I think that should have been tagged as a spoiler - although it didn't spoil the series for me. :)

I pretty much agree exactly with everything you listed out. I might also include as a spoiler anything that the author is obviously keeping tightly obscured until later in a book. Even if it's maybe not a big deal, if the author went to efforts to conceal it then I feel like I should respect that.

Also - any reveals that shift a character's motivations or change one's perception of a particular character, though I suppose that's similar enough to events that cause a change in direction, just with characters rather than plot.

Spoilers frustrate me. I quit actually reading reviews until after I have read the book. 90% of the time before I did this, I would get that one review that revealed everything without even saying HEY ****SPOILERS**** prior to the spoiler tags creation. Now I go on blind hope based on either friends avg rating or the overall avg rating of the book.

I agree there are differences in spoilers, and all the ones you've already listed are how I feel about them too. Plus it's early and my brain hasn't finished jump starting it's self and wants caffeine to finish this process, so I can't think of any more!

Agree with all your points, Stacia and like Hillary, I don't read reviews until I'm done with a book because I know that I'm not consistent myself in the way I tag spoilers in a review. Sometimes I can write a review with no spoilers, sometimes I can write it in a way that I just need to add a few spoiler tags and sometimes I just put a notice at the top that there are spoilers because I need to discuss a plot at length and can't use the spoiler tag for every other word.

I don't even read the book description of a later book in a series until I'm about to read it because I know sometimes they contain spoilers of a previous book in a series:

"When Crepuscula found out that the love of her life was really a Demon Spawn trying to control the universe, she went into a depression and tried to commit suicide. Now she's back, saucier than ever, vowing she'll do everything in her power to stop him.

If you just started the series where Crepuscula and her boyfriend just got together, you would know everything that happened just by reading the description!

I'm terrible with that. If I like a book I rush and read the descriptions of all the following books, even though that usually means that I'll get spoilers.

I think I pretty much agree with everything you said, Stacia. Except that it's such a gray area for people. My friend doesn't like me to say ANYTHING about the book. Because even just my pleased or disappointed inflection drives her insane. So unfortunately I don't think that people will ever agree.

In my reviews I try not to say anything that would be thought of as a spoiler, but I'm sure it's happened before.

I try to stick to the bases, but if I feel like it was a twist or a shock I might use the spoiler just so that the reader can get that thrill too.

Something I don't consider a spoiler is when people warn me about a genre switch. For instance, let's say that the book is supposed to be historical romance and there's a strong PNR element that it's not at all advertised anywhere. Those are the kinds of things I want to know.

That's a good Point D.G I didn't think of that!

D.G. ~Shameless Hussy~ wrote: "Something I don't consider a spoiler is when people warn me about a genre switch. For instance, let's say that the book is supposed to be historical romance and there's a strong PNR element that it..."

I feel the same way about those, and also issue books. Like I will want to know if it's about rape or abuse or disorders or incest or whatever before I pick it up, even if what the character is going through doesn't become apparent until later in the book.

I agree Jenny. If there's going to be a major point of the book which could be a turnoff, such as incest, I do think it's better to go into the book with eyes wide open.

Stacia *the pusher wrote: "I recently got into a discussion on a friend's review about spoilers.

In my opinion, I consider a spoiler to be a major plot point, something that could potentially spoil your enjoyment of the boo..."

I agree with everything you've mentioned Stacia.

I'm surprised you all are so agreeable! It wasn't that long ago that I had a bit of discussion with someone about something I said about a book. I didn't think it was a spoiler but someone else swore up and down that it was. It made me so self-conscious that I went back and put a disclaimer in one of my reviews.

This made me think that there was a broad range of what people might consider spoilers.

I've also seen a few instances in other groups lately where people have been mentioning things in books that I'd consider to be HUGE spoilers. This makes me wonder if people don't know what a spoiler is or if they assume it's not worth marking if people haven't read the book. I don't know.

My recent pet peeve is spoilers in "professional" reviews. I am a librarian, so I read things like Publisher's Weekly and Booklist and Library Journal. But I also actually read books. Twice recently I was spoiled on the last book in a series, and they were from published review publications.

Somebody told me once that mentioning that a couple ended together in a romance was a spoiler so I agree that people definitely have different definitions, LOL!

I like to discover almost everything on my own so I rarely read reviews because I know that no matter what, people are bound to mention something I would have prefer finding out on my own.

If the book is specifically marketed as romance, then I don't think saying something about the couple being together is a spoiler (unless there is a love-triangle).

Strictly speaking about the adult realm (since YA tends to fubar what belongs in which genre) - that's one of the big distinctions between paranormal romance and urban fantasy. With UF, there is no absolute guarantee that a HEA will happen (although it often does). With PNR, there will always be a HEA. So if you see on a PNR book some snippet about two people named "Butch and Marissa," you already know that those two are going to end up together at some point. This would also count for a historical romance or a contemporary romance.

I agree. If romance is the main genre, especially adult romance, that the characters end up together is a given and therfore not a spoiler.

It was a strictly romance - not UF or literary fiction where a couple may have a relationship and not end up together. I was all WTH? Don't you know that's the point of romance, LOL!

I'd laugh pretty hard at that if the cover was one that specifically looked like a romance. Sometimes you can't tell if it's a genre fiction or the cover doesn't have an indicators (such as a couple). But if it was one where any person could tell by the title or cover, I'd wonder what their hangup was in thinking that the mention of a romance was a spoiler.

I'm good when romances are mentioned in the review, when there is a love triangle in a series and you are about to get the conclusion and the review either flat out says or hints at who they pick then I have an issue.

That's what I did! I laughed!

I don't remember the book but it was by a known romance author...Stephanie Laurens or SEP.

I totally agree with the major plot points issue. I find it interesting that some people want to know exactly what they're getting into before they read it - not just, for example, if there is incest, but every plot point.

I find this with movies too. I have people who will try and tell me everything. I really love going into a story with little or no preconceptions of it.

For me, a spoiler would be learning something criticle about a main character, such as if they live or die or who they end up with. Above all, I hate to be told how a book ends. On rare occasions though, I have found spoilers useful. If I've started a series and grown frustrated with it, but still have a little curiosity about how it ends, spoilers are a great way of finding out without actually reading the books. I never do it with books I love, and I never put spoilers in my reviews.

Can I ask a somewhat related question? How do you feel about content advisories on books - specifically detailing types of content (say in the product description) that may make it appropriate to an older YA audience?

I like knowing a bit about potential content, but I'm answering more as a librarian than a reader. I read a lot of teen lit, but there is no way for me to read everything on my shelves. A big part of my job is recomending books to teens and their parents, and if I know of potential issues, that helps me reccomend the book or warn a family of content.

As a reader, as long as the content mentioned isn't supposed to be a surprise, it doesn't bother me. I don't like putting an age on things, though, because what some teens can handle at 14, others can't handle at 18.

Emily wrote: "I like knowing a bit about potential content, but I'm answering more as a librarian than a reader. I read a lot of teen lit, but there is no way for me to read everything on my shelves. A big par..."

Thank you! Good points to consider.

I feel like there should be an advisory on books. Not for the sake of censoring, but as a guide, so parents can browse it and see if a book may or may not be appropriate for their child. Or heck, it wouldn't hurt even for us readers who would rather know what we're getting in to.

The YA realm covers everything from pre-teen to college age characters in some cases, with a wide range of reading and comfort levels. It would be nice to have either a rating or age system noted somewhere on the book. There are some people who would prefer to stay away from graphic content, while others such as myself tend to avoid a good part of young YA and middle grade content. I've been sucked into books, only to discover later that I wouldn't have read them had I known they were written for a younger audience.

I wouldn't mind some sort of content code, like TV shows have now. Violence, sexual situations, language, magic, etc. All are things I have occasionally been asked about. I've even considered putting codes into my reviews, more for my own memory than anything. Two weeks ago, I told a parent that a book had a kiss and nothing more. I re-read it right after that and while that was technically true, there were conversations about sex that I had forgotten about. I keep worrying that the mom is going to show up and be mad at me!

I had thought about coding my reviews as well but then realized that it would bug me if I had some of my reviews coded and others uncoded. And I'm far, far too lazy to go back and redo a ton of old reviews!

If they can list content codes for video games and TV shows, then I see no reason why they couldn't do it for books. I considered doing it in my reviews as well, but I decided that I didn't want to be taking content notes as I read, and don't trust myself to remember or even notice every potentially flaggable instance. I think I'd miss things like language.

Good point. You'd think ratings would be universal.

I also like to know something about the book before I start. I always read the product descriptions.

Okay, so it seems like content descriptions would be helpful. As opposed to a situation like movies where it is predetermined who would be allowed access to which book (age dependent). That would be awful.

I consider a spoiler to be the death of a character, the outcome of a relationship, and a major twist in the plot.

Major plot twists