Jane Austen discussion

Story by Kirsty Mitchell in the collection Dancing with Mr. Darcy

What a parallel Michell draws between a nude model of the modern day and maidens looking for marital future in the 19th century: despite their true worth and their mental talents, both were in "a career where a woman is worthless by the age of twenty-five. It's a disgrace."

Wow! I didn't see this one coming at all, especially after "Second Thoughts." While I'm not afraid of some salty language, I'd prefer a more pristine Jane derivative.

That being said, I, too, saw the parallel between Jane's time (a woman is desirable if she's beautiful and pleasing) and Jayne (who can't make a living any other way than to sell images of her body to publications so men can enjoy looking at her). Pathetic that this is how far we as a society have come, when it comes to valuing women, in nearly 200 years.

Sandi wrote: "Wow! I didn't see this one coming at all, especially after "Second Thoughts." While I'm not afraid of some salty language, I'd prefer a more pristine Jane derivative.

That being said, I, too, sa..."

EXACTLY how I felt when reading this story, Sandy!

Well, I have to disagree that society has not progressed in valuing women. The story describes an erotic industry, right? I think that is the inherit problem in fields that get ahead by the exploitation of women, but not in society in general -- at least the society of many of us -- I can't speak for countries where I have not lived.

Also on the side of marriage -- I am glad we are no longer washed up by age 23 or something.

Ok, maybe society values some of our contributions (and I say that with a purposeful maybe; workers in female-dominated industries like education and child care are still often paid less than fields requiring comparable levels of education/training but are dominated by men).

But think about how women who do not meet the standard of beauty are treated even today. Plain women and girls who don't meet society's unrealistic expectation of female beauty are undervalued and made to feel inferior. Just go to the checkout line of a supermarket and read the titles of the articles in women's magazines. I know middle-aged women who won't leave the house until they're made up like fashion models. I know high schoolers who are petrified that their boyfriends won't find them attractive enough so they adopt unhealthy eating habits to maintain an unrealistic weight. I see nine year old girls come into the beauty salon wanting highlights, extensions, and everything under the sun because they've already learned that their own looks aren't good enough. Until we learn to value ourselves for who we are, why should the rest of society behave any differently?

If Jane Austen were alive today, who knows exactly what she'd think of our world, but I'm willing to bet she'd notice some depressing similarities--women being valued by fleeting qualities like beauty and uncontrollable ones like age. I can't help but believe she'd see the irony.

I think that is the thing though, Sandi. Most of those things you speak of are the side affect of female culture too. Women judge other women, create unrealistic visions and requirements of what women should be, young/old, heavy/thin, blonde/dark. I think men do perpetuate these horrors in society, but women follow them and make the requirements on each other. I think that is a separate issue apart from women's education/career/political progress of the last two centuries. How we treat each other and how we raise our children as women will be the only way to stop that cycle. Do you remember the article that asked "is it really the 3-year-olds who are buying the skin-revealing, "sexy" clothing that so many object to?" No, obviously it is the parents, and I would bet the mothers or grandmothers, buying it for them. This was a couple years ago -- maybe a backlash against the Mylie Cyrus clothing line or something, I don't remember exactly. But you see my point maybe.

Yes, I am with you, Sandi -- diets, tanning beds, highlights, manicures, etc. etc. for girls so young they could probably be encouraged into other things in those formative years - like joining a math or science club. I have seen it very close at hand, I assure you. I have so many views on this, I maybe should not go further! Somebody else's turn.... :)

Agree with the above - well stated.

I found this story to go too far. The language was part of it - but it was just crass all the way through. I couldn't empathize with the woman because the way the story was told. Jane's work didn't have that "edge" to it. I had to force myself to keep reading it. It was . . . vulgar and angry.

As far as our women not being worth anything or attractive past their mid-twenties, there are a lot of exceptions to that rule. I think we're moving past a lot of those misconceptions. I think about Demi Moore, Christie Brinkley, Ashley Judd, Catherine Zeta Jones, Courtney Cox, Diane Lane, Halle Berry . . . and many more that are holding down leading lady roles past the age of 40. We've also had more shows featuring overweight women in leading roles.

Then you think about all the powerful women in politics. We had Hilary running for President, then Sarah Palin on the Vice Presidential ticket. Then this season we had another female nominee for President. Doctors, researchers, astronauts . . . you name it, we can do it. We can change the world (without selling our bodies).

Sure - sexy still sells and some girls embrace that on their own - or because they believe it's the only way to get what they want. I don't buy that it's their only option and that youth and beauty are all we have to offer. The world is different from what Jane Austen wrote about - and certainly not limited to what this story was about.

I was insulted, not inspired.

Margaret, I see your points that this story was quite different than the traditional Austen writing. I think I saw it as one area of women's lives today rather than as commentary of "where we are" as women.

However, one of the other of these short stories made me pause with a more direct statement about this subject also. I will make a comment there as soon as I get caught up with some offline things.