The Book Club Experiment discussion
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The Proposed Structure
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Sounds flipping fantastic! Where do you want the authors to sign up?
Mod
http://bookclubreading.com/
(click 'Submit Your Book')
Won't work if you tell people what to read, and you are expecting 2/3 authors to fail before they have even had their books properly read. Some weeks you will have three great books and other weeks not. A small team checks the next book due is of reasonable standard- everyone who wants to read it does so and reviews- end of story.
Derrolyn first up, others to follow in order they join thread.
I'm really excited about this idea, so I'm still all-in. But, I'm a little worried about week 4. I mean, what happens if after I've read the book I don't LIKE it and don't WANT to promote it?
Sunny wrote: "I'm really excited about this idea, so I'm still all-in. But, I'm a little worried about week 4. I mean, what happens if after I've read the book I don't LIKE it and don't WANT to promote it?"
That thought occurred to me too... LOL ;)
That whole end of story line seems a tad rude, especially if you aren't the moderator of this group. It won't be "telling" people what to read when there is a vote by the people and the majority wins. I agree with Sunny though, what if we don't end up liking the story and don't want to promote the book?
I think people should have a choice, if they don't like the book then still write a review, but perhaps don't do the rest of the "sharing" and "liking" on various websites??
That sounds like a winner,i like the idea.Debra sue
Richard wrote: "Won't work if you tell people what to read, and you are expecting 2/3 authors to fail before they have even had their books properly read. Some weeks you will have three great books and other weeks..."Unless I am completely missing the point here - the first week is about the three authors pitching their books to us (like the tv programme Shark Tank (Dragons Den) in order to win potential support/readership/sales - removing that aspect of it will just make the group like any other Independent book review group (or worse, because no-one gets any say).
Obviously there will be weeks where we have several "pitches" that are worthy of support but only one "winner". That doesn't stop people from reading the books that they found interesting, does it?
I am sure there are other groups that do exactly what you suggest somewhere on Goodreads. However I am sure you will find that most group members like to be able to vote rather than have a select few decide that a book is up to "standard" - in my opinion that wouldn't work.
I'm in and looking forward to the process. Plus, I am guessing, we can change the proposed process if we find it isn't working. Will we be provided the books that are selected or will we buying them? (Other than the shipping delay time, I am OK either way.)
I have a couple of questions. I don't tweet. Are you all OK with me posting something on Linkedin instead? Is there a time limit for when we have to read and review a book?
I am sorry but I am dropping out. I have a few different reasons. I really should have read this over before accepting the invite.Reasons:
1. Readers do not appreciate authors leaving reviews for each other. And, in fact, Amazon will take your review down if the book happens to be in the same genre as your book(s). I am not saying we are not readers, too, and can't ever leave a review...but setting up a club where we "promise" to review a certain book just feels smarmy to me. First of all, I don't know if the book is even edited or proofed decently. Secondly, I don't know if I will like the book. To leave a good review for either of these examples is dishonest and will lead readers to believe a book is stellar when perhaps it is not. Leaving a bad (although possibly honest) review defeats the purpose of the club. If I do review someones work on my own (not as part of this club), I don't want them to review mine. If readers see that you exchange reviews the word spreads quickly that youy are sock puppeting. Not good. Leave the reviews for book reviewers/bloggers and do the hard work of finding them and asking them to review; and to readers who may decide to review.
2. I belonged to a group that voted on books every month and then tweeted, facebooked and offered the author of the month a guest blog or interview on their blogs. This only lasted a few months. Every one was hot to join, but if their book was not selected, they did nothing. There were several dozen in the group and every month maybe 5 or 6 actually promoted. In other words, they wanted the glory but did not want the work of givng others glory. It was very disappointing. We also did not have to tweet "this book is great" or whatever. I would say something like "If you like science fiction, you might enjoy..." to stay honest. The group fell apart in 6 months. Those of us that did a lot of promoting but had not even had our book up for voting got nothing but a bunch of time spent that could have been used for writing. I don't have a problem with spreading the word like this group did...but it seldom works because many people only want to get, not give.
Sorry to sound so negative, but I really feel leaving reviews for each other is treading on dangerous, less than honest ground. My reviews are all legitimate reviews that people left on their own OR I gave a free copy to a listed book reviewer/blogger. That is how it should be. Readers expect more from us than trying to game the system with reivews. Don't kid yourself that readers here in Goodreads won't be checking this group out and talking about it in reader forums on the internet. Just not smart.
From your angle you are suggesting that we are all authors, reviewing each others work? I am not an author - just an active reader and I am guessing that the vast majority of people will only be readers too?There is a dedicated thread addressing the honest review subject.
Caddy wrote: "I am sorry but I am dropping out. I have a few different reasons. I really should have read this over before accepting the invite.Reasons:
1. Readers do not appreciate authors leaving reviews ..."
Who asked the authors to review books?
Ah. If most are readers then it could actually work. I just have a problem with authors being part of the promotion and reviewing process. That just does not feel right to me and would hurt all author reputations involved. If there was a way to do this where authors can promote their work to be considered BUT NOT TAKE PART IN PROMOTING OR REVIEWING that would be honest and fair. Perhaps that is what is supposed to happen, I don't know. Can someone explain this better to me? Are authors exempt from reviewing and promoting and only asked to join in order to present their work and hope to get picked? If so, fab! I would love to do that and would take the time to answer questions afterward, give away a free copy in a drawing, whatever. Very cool.
I know what you mean :)If you take a look at my author page you'll see that I have no books listed. I refuse to do ANY reviews precisely because I was confronted by some tit-for-tat requests that made me uncomfortable.
Caddy wrote: "Ah. If most are readers then it could actually work. I just have a problem with authors being part of the promotion and reviewing process. That just does not feel right to me and would hurt all ..."I think they are using authors from HERE (that is what is states in message 3)
From what I can see I don't think there is any pressure for an author to become part of the reviewing process, if they don't want to be. I think your reasons are perfectly valid for choosing to opt out.
Well, like I said, I won't review or promote but I would do the work to present and to hold any discussions, interviews, trivia, doorprize needed if my book is selected. I hope that is enough to be one of the authors eventually considered. I will let friends know about this group and try to help build it. :)
I'm in! Signed up and everything. See you guys on the flip side!Cheers
Are the ebooks only available on amazon? I can find the paperback but no ebooks on B&N.
Authors reviewing authors is a problem on occasions, but there is another side to it- An author loses his name if he praises rubbish. What is far more of a concern is authors using false names and buddy groups to praise their own and other peoples work. The most important thing is to be open. But I agree that the model proposed here would work best if reviews are only been posted by readers, and not the authors. Also the voting for the selection should be by readers only.
For readers who are worried about authors cross reviewing- it is easy to check. Just click on both authors. All are welcome to follow my links, and cross reviews. I am always grateful for any totally independent reviews I can get- well that is a bit over brave perhaps- but certainly I value the views of those free of the slightest suspicion of being part of networks above all others.
I would ask readers to consider the fact that it is not just in the self-publishing world that there is abuse of systems. The big publishing houses know how to play dirty to get the reviews they want- they really are no more reliable than those of the other 99% of authors.
I will not give stars on the basis of any buddy system and nor will most other self-respecting indie authors. And no- of course I don't trash writers either- I don't review rubbish, period.
Sorry if my first comment seemed over negative. I fully support the idea of trying to find ways around existing problems, and inventive new ideas.
As to Carrie- Yes B&N is one of the biggest players in eBooks.
I think it would be best then to have only readers review, and if you are an author you can also review as long as you don't propose your book for reviewing. I guess if you don't have things like Facebook or other websites you can just 'like' or comment on the book on any websites which you are on.If I read a book and don't like it, I won't be publishing a 'this-book-is-so-fantastic' review. I think that is fair, I mean when people give away books on FirstReads there is always the risk that someone won't like it.
I was rather excited about this when I first read it. I don't have a novel out yet, but it's with a publisher now and will soon be released. I'd like to think I can write a review whether it's by someone I know or not. I never make promises to give high praise/stars if I didn't like it or found a ton of grammar/punc problems. I think the reviews I have done will show that. What I don't want to do is get anyone upset because I'm an author AND a reader, when the author part seems to get me in trouble. All I really want to do is talk books. Since the books I tend to buy and read are in the same genre I write, I don't think this is going to work out for me. Really sorry. I should have waited for more feedback before I joined, but it sounded like fun. No hard feelings though. :) I'll try to drop by and see how you're doing every once in a while.Best to you all,
Denna
Denna, It is perfectly OK to write reviews about other books in your genre. People can check authors easily. It is very obvious if one is buddy viewing rubbish to get one back. We are more transparent as reviewers than is almost anyone else. It is the authors who cheat by using different names to review themselves and others, and who get friends to write reviews that cause bad feeling. Be transparent and honest, and readers will respect you for it and even seek out your reviews.
But I agree with you though that unless this idea is set up well that we authors shouldn't review here. We have to respect the general readers genuine and real concerns.
If self-publishing is going to continue to flourish it is vital that readers know where to find reviewers they trust. Otherwise good or bad we will all be drowned out in the growing flood of new books.
I think way too much is being made of this issue. I say that if people want to review they can and similarly they don't have to! When I read someone's review I don't then go and check who that person is, and I certainly don't dis credit it if I do find out it is another author - in fact I think that is great! I have a few authors on my friends list and all of them review books and I value their opinion.
I totally agree with Richard and Caddy. I'll be happy to participate as long as I'm not automatically expected to review and promote. I'll be happy to promote anyone else's book but mine but I reserve the right to do that only if I think it's worth it - otherwise no. This should not be a give and take, self-congratulatory community. You're great, I'm great, we're all great! That simply can't work. The gatekeeping role here should be devolved to readers not authors. And if any of my books were selected for reading and discussion, like Caddy, I'll happily answer questions but won't participate in either reviews or promotion through the whole period it is under discussion. If that's the way it's going to be done, I'm happy to be in! If not, well, I'll just drop out...
I also see another problem: how do we handle genre? There are rules for each genre and not every genre appeals to everyone. So how do we handle book events by genres?
I like this idea and I will do by best to keep up. (I am currently attending college as well) I just wish I was better at reviewing a book, put I will put up a "review" stating things I liked or disliked. :) I will gladly take any hints and suggestions on how to write a decent review. Looking forward to the start date.
I downloaded your Wordpress plug in, activated it and dragged the widget to my sidebar. But it wrecked the appearance and function of my entire blog!The only way I got my blog back to normal was to deactivate your plug in.
Any suggestions on how to get it to work?
Thankx so much
Aggie
Mod
Sorry about that. Please let me know the version of WP you are using.
Instead of using the widget, you can simply add the link to your Blogroll on your site.
I'm using the latest version, not the free version, but my own domain name. I upgrade every time one becomes available.Which URL should I use. I'd be happy to add the link to my blog roll.
Then I guess my next step is to submit my book?
I think I like this concept. I would like to see it as a trial run then if changes need to be made they can at a later time.
Hi All: This sounds like a great idea, and having read through some of the concerns, here are my thoughts:1. I am an author, and I'm adding my book to be considered at bookclubreading.com, as directed above. I'm not sure if there's anything I'm supposed to do after that, so if there is, I'd appreciate if someone will please let me know.
2. As for reviews, ethics, etc, here are my thoughts: If we all just be honest and ethical, none of the quandaries will exist! It seems to me that, like with any book club, if the voted selection doesn't seem like it's "for you," you don't "have to" read it! Further, if you read a both and either like it or don't like it (regardless of whether you're an author, reader, or what), you can choose to either post an honest (positive or negative... whatever you honestly thought) review... or not post one at all.
3. As for the potential for us to be stuck with books that are not properly edited, I admit this is a sticking point for me. I'd be annoyed to have spent money to buy any book that turned out to be that way. However, I guess any author willing to put a book out there like that in the first place must also be willing to risk receiving negative reviews accordingly. So, hopefully, that won't happen. Also, reading the provided excerpt should give us some idea of the quality of the work.
So anyhow, I think it sounds like a great program, and I'm interested in participating, both as an author and as a reader. If we all just follow our own honesty and do what we know is ethical, it should all work out fine.
See you all on here!
--Best,
Lori Verni-Fogarsi, Author of Momnesia
Momnesia
I think the proposed structure is interesting. I'm in!
I think you can't make all of the people happy all of the time. This book club sounds fun and exciting to me. I love to read and I am (slowly) writing a novel. So, I'll be honest up front, I'm in this to read, learn and to be able to participate in helping writers with good books get in the know. I will not say I like a book if I didn't like it but I don't believe that is what we are being asked to do.
I'm excited. When will the first books be proposed?
I was wondering that too. I think we have enough members to start.
I'm primarily a reader. No books for sale or in print. I do have concerns about some aspects of the group, but I'd rather see if they pan out than open a can of worms before anything is realized. It sounds like a fun process and one that writers need, especially the self-pubs (independents). Most Indie Books are free or less than a buck on Amazon. Getting the word out on a book is the hardest thing that they do. If this works, I'd be glad to promote those books that I like. I tend to do that anyway. It's nice to have a format for it.
Count me in.
Mod
We will begin the first week in May. Lining up Weeks 1 - 4 with the weeks of the month will keep it simple for everyone.
The proposed structure makes sense. But how do you select writers? By lottery? Alphabetical order? Rotate by genre?
PROPOSED STRUCTURE
* Week 1 - Three authors present (Tues, Wed, Thurs). Each provides an excerpt for review. Presentations involve a trivia (giveaway) and a discussion to get to know the author and their book. Then, we vote and declare a winner for the month.
* Week 2&3 - We read the selected book. At the end of Week 3, we have a follow up book club meeting, hosted again by the author to discuss the book in greater detail.
* Week 4 - Members help promote the book by doing the following in a coordinated effort
1) Leaving our reviews on Amazon and Goodreads,
2) Clicking 'Like' on Amazon, Goodreads, and Facebook,
3) Clicking Tags on Amazon,
4) Sending Tweets,
5) Post the book's BCRL page to StumbleUpon
6) Posting on Facebook
Aside from writing your review, the rest should take no more than a minute each. We'll do these over a 2 or 3 day period ... one or two simple things per day.
*I'll create a video to show members how to quickly do each step in case they are unfamiliar with some of them.