The Sleepy Conscience Club discussion

So once again, it seems that this chapter is signalling an awakening of sorts. In the second chapter, David makes the point that looking away from the neon bible and into the sky helps him to concentrate on his prayers. Now in this chapter, we have the fall and subsequent humbling of Mrs. Watkins, the wife of the deacon of the church (of the neon bible???).

Mrs. Watkins hates Aunt Mae and through that connection, hates David as well. David then shows that he understands that Mrs. Watkins is feared more than she is liked, as David points out when he is watching her conversation with the other teacher in the playground. Then with the fall, I think we are witnessing another awakening, with David starting to understand the limitation that the religious folks in town can have by ruling with fear. He is also becoming closer with Aunt Mae, who seems to be cast as the troubled person with a good spiritual side...

One more short note. The house on the hill sounds awesome to me, minus the terrible clay. To be able to see the sky at night, and to be able to look down upon the town and watch the townsfolk as they go about their business...sounds like a great location to me!

This is an Awesome discussion, I thought when I read about the Fall that it was justice and an answered prayer. I thought in a sense that David was praying for a sense of justice because in his young mind he knows that things are not right. I think the deacon and his wife were swatted down by the hand of God to teach them humility and that religion is not to be wielded like a sword but to be used to help others, not hinder them. I think Davids experience with Religion is going to be more of an understanding of the way evil pollutes good, in the sake of righteousness and how that is a bastardization of the true purpose of God and religion.

I could be completely wrong. I am excited.

If anything it was the bitch teacher and the deacon and or the constraints of society in the deep south. I feel bad that Toole didn't decide to see how his life might end had he let it come to fullrition. All the changes that have taken place for better or worse. Definitely a lot more tolerant.

I expect it's forced. It's the town pressure on the family. That's why I don't fault the father. I think the women hated that there husbands took an intrest to aunt Mae and the whole family suffered. Once the men were off to war they stopped hating aunt Mae so much.

One other point you both ask about David's age in chapter one while on the train. If you read it he is running away from his life. His legs are numb after 200 miles. His story starts when he was a kid with a train that he is reminiscing about. So I expect his story starts when he was 3 or so and he's on the train at age 15 or 16 or so. I'm just guessing.

I don't think the segregation was forced on the family, but I guess that all depends on how the father lost his job at the factory. Unless I am missing something, I don't ever think we learn why he lost his job, do we? It seems that the family's lack of money was the only segregation that occurred, but I could be way off.

Hmm, I wonder. I chalked up the lack of details to be just a fragment of his inexperience as a writer, but the alternative viewpoint that this was done on purpose to be more accurate to the perspective of a child is interesting.

I think Toole was deliberate in his vagueness. The whole story is David saying things like I don't know but I think. And then he will make some profound point like The sun light shining through the fabric of a harlot. But the father on the surface does not want the light to shine on him because of lack of respect for aunt Mae, or on a deeper level he does not want to be judged by a person like Aunt Mae. Its extremely deep and Toole even mentions the room looks like Hell. He knows exactly what hes doing. Its vague but profound.

Have you ever talked to someone and agreed with them on there points and then after they have lowered there defenses you say I agree with everything you just said and its spot on, but did you ever consider: enter your opinion here. This is what Toole does. As David he says the inside of the bus smells and everyone is grossed out, and he says hes smelled that before but he cant figure it out, then he says oh yeah its like my teachers breath. Whats that. It could be cigarettes or booze or any number of vile things that might make your breath smell stank. Brilliant.