Crazy Love discussion

Suppose there is an afterlife and in this afterlife Hitler has been strapped to a device that will set him on fire for all of eternity. All that is needed to start this torture is the press of a button, and you have been given the task of pressing it. Would you press the button?

If you believe in hell do you believe it will consist of maximum torture for an infinite duration, or will it be something less severe than this?

What if the person strapped to the maximum torture device is a homosexual or an atheist? Would you press the button then?

As an atheist who faces this remote prospect I am curious how many people really believe I should burn forever.

It isn't up to me...or anyone else. It is between you and the Lord.

When all is reveiled, noone will go to hell saying they were unfairy convicted and noone will go to Heaven saying they did it on their own.

Very true Wayne

Christopher.. I am a Christian, and I've struggled with this very question for a few years.. and even stated it in almost identical terms (also using Hitler, who I suppose is one person we can all agree was very bad). This is the most troubling aspect of Christianity for me. I have said to some fellow Christians, "If hell is conscious torture for eternity, are we sure even Hitler should endure that?"
The problem is, atheism is even more problematic for me, on several fronts, and so I continue to think this through and work it out. I suggest "The Great Divorce" By CS Lewis, if you haven't read that.

In view of what Jesus doid for us, we deserve hell, all of us, but grace won out. To reject Jesus' love is to choose and deserve hell. When something so good is offered to you and you turn your back on the giver. You deserve to get what the gift would have protected you from. the whole purpose is to gain fellowship with God, to spurn it is to take what comes with the spurnning.

This is a good thread. I'm a Christian, and I feel like the comments here have been a good representation of scriptural faith in response to a pretty difficult and worthy question.

This is similar to what @Madmolly said, but I'll use the example of Jesus teaching his disciples how to pray. In that prayer he teaches them, and us to pray "Forgive us our debt as we have forgiven our debtors." (Mt.5:12) He actually teaches us to ask for...conditional forgiveness, where the condition is the degree of our own capacity to forgive. So where scripture doesn't really authorize people's judgment of others, it does allow for us to invoke judgment on ourselves.

Even I know some Christians who would love the opportunity to "press the button," or at least they think they would, but I don't think a desire for the power to judge is exclusive to Christians with warped Biblical theology. Most of the Christians I know don't relish the thought of punishing others. We're not malevolent (to be so would seem rather ironic at best,) and I would hope that those who don't share our faith would understand that we don't promote it for the sake of dominance or pride, but because if we believe in eternity (and we do) and if believe we should care about people (and we do,) then sharing our faith is a necessary extension of love.

Some things that I believe are not things that I want to be so. That is true of, say, every human who would have liked to fly. So do I believe in hell and that it will be, in one form or another, torturous? Yes. Would I press someone else's button, even Hitler's? Yours? No. Both of those statements are informed by my beliefs in the Bible, and in who God is.

As a Christian woman, I don't want anyone to go to hell...and the God I know certainly doesn't want, nor did He ever intend for anyone to go. 2 Peter 3:9 " The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." But, in rejecting God and his Son, Jesus, we choose hell. God is too much of a gentleman to force us to choose Him...He leaves that part up to us. It truly is our choice. I hope this helps. He does love everyone, but he is holy and cannot allow willful sin.

Elizabeth wrote: "It isn't up to me...or anyone else. It is between you and the Lord."


I agree. It's up to the Lord to hand out the punishment. Not me.

Madmolly wrote: "As a Christian, I would never send anyone, no matter how bad they were or what they did to me, to hell if I had the power. Hell makes me cry. But I do believe that it is a real place. Christians..."

I totally agree with Molly. God doesn't wish that any should perish. 2 Peter 3:9 and he says that He is patient with you. He also knows every doubt and fear. I firmly believe that he gives up those of a reprobate mind, as it also says. And those that choose to go against His word are reprobate. I'm sorry because I don't want anyone to go to Hell, it is a place of torment for all eternity. It saddens my heart. If given my own choice I'd not let that happen to anyone. As for Hitler he is in a class all his own. He is so unlike any atheist or homosexual that I've ever known. I have many friends who are both, and I don't condemn them or sit in judgment of them. As it is written we can only condemn ourselves. Love to you and I pray you keep seeking truth. -D

Daniel wrote: "Christopher, I don't believe hell is a real place. But, I believe it is a very real state. Hell is existing in the complete absence of the God lovingly created us. Now you and I live in a world tha..."

Amen and amen! I agree with what you've said!

Kory wrote: "This is a good thread. I'm a Christian, and I feel like the comments here have been a good representation of scriptural faith in response to a pretty difficult and worthy question.

This is similar..."

So very good and factual statements you've made Kory. God bless you for speaking the truth and for being bold. Amen. I agree with you! In fact, I agree so much with what you've said, that I've posted your comment on my Facebook page. Because I have people who would most certainly benefit from it. Thank you for sharing!

If there were a button and by pressing that button it would send you to heaven for eternity. But the only person responsible for pressing that button was you, would you press it?

http://www.fixedearth.com/the_bible/h...

I would not press it. It would be the Lord's business alone.

The Bible with all of it's dangerous descriptions does not distinctly give a great picture of the actuality of what hell will truly be like. Hell is going to a HORRIBLE place where rest will never be achieved and every sin you ever committed in this lifetime will be put against YOU.

I would never press the button regardless of who it was...

I understand that you are an atheist, but it doesn't mean I want you to go to hell and burn forever. Does it mean you will? Honestly? Obviously, you are curious about where you are going/ what will happen if you reach hell etc. All I can say is it is the Truth that will save you, set you free and keep you in God's protection from the disaster to come. God tells us that even the pregnant women in the days when the Devil is released will endure pure torture. It will NOT be a fun place, so get with the Lord Jesus and He will save you. You only need to call out to Him.
Friend, come to Him. You have one other choice, but do you really know what that will be like?

God wants you in His courts. <3

The only one who could press the button is someone who has committed no sin. Since I have committed numerous sins and am only saved through grace I cannot press it.

But there is One who is sinless and his name is Jesus. Like Peter says in Acts 4:12 where he is talking about Jesus:

"There is salvation in no one else! God has given no other name under heaven by which we must be saved.”

Only he can save us all from the button that we all deserve.

It is YOUR choice. You can choose to accept God or reject Him. He allows you that freedom. If you reject Him, in the end, you will simply get what you chose - an eternity separated from Him. That's what hell is. So you can't really blame God for "pushing the button" when it is your own decision.

(Skip to last paragraph to get to the main point) I enjoy reading the theologically sensitive posts concerning God's will and not our will, but I want to pose the first thing I thought when this question was asked: What would I do if I had the choice? That's an issue that leaves God out of the equation and I hope to honor that, which, I must admit, I sort of revel in.

Personally, it could be kind of fun watching Hitler squirm in pain for a while, remembering all the pain he has inflicted on the world. Maybe bring in all the people who he's afflicted and concentrated all the gas chambers his troops set off inside his lungs (lovely. Do you have lungs in hell?). But I don't think I could watch that forever. I'd wish there was an off switch, or give Hitler solace in some way. Maybe someone else would jump in there with him so Hitler could relate to the pain with someone else (I'm looking at you, Pol Pot, Stalin, or the Starbucks barista who spelled my name wrong).

As you can tell, my reasoning is completely arbitrary, biased, worldly, and are generally forms of schadenfreude (taking pleasure in others pain). But that's kind of as evil as it gets in my book, as well as in the bible (maybe read John 4:20, Matt 5:44, and Luke 18:9-14). Our passed judgement is not something that we should boast in as Christians, but repent from and hope that Christians can have a more open heart willing to love and rise above the passions and excitement of "pushing the suffer button".

In short, I'd press the button because it's fun to watch what you think people deserve. It's also a very childish and shameful act to put this into effect, and would hope to reform myself from those sorts of feelings of hatred.

Caleb, I like your thoughts. Because taking pleasure in Hitler's pain would basically make me no different than him, and my point of view that I'm somehow morally superior to him would immediately be demolished by enjoying his pain for even a moment. And that would put me on the same level as him, something most people (including me) desperately don't want.

There are people who have done great evil in to me, and I have wished pain upon them. I have creatively relished thoughts of "appropriate" maiming to these men, to "bring home" the justice of what was done to me. But I know that harboring these thoughts only injures me, and it only allows my suffering to continue. If I am to feel free, if I am to have joy, then I must (for my own good) release my ideas of what justice may be, and instead care for my own self. I must work on creating a better me, instead of focusing on destroying the evil in others.

Molly wrote: "As a Christian, I would never send anyone, no matter how bad they were or what they did to me, to hell if I had the power. Hell makes me cry. But I do believe that it is a real place. Christians..."

Love your response! Perfect! God is a just God. We wants us all to be with him, but he offers each of us FREE WILL. He wants CHOICE love, not FORCED love....so he is a mighty God who loves us....but it is our choice if we choose him or not. There are consequences to our choices. We reap what we sow.

I question why an 'athiest' would even think to go around posting on Christian websites? As a Christian, I have never once thought to go search around on an athiest sight, not once. So are you really an athiest, or are you searching, wanting answers? :)

Why are you so angry and what is your story?

Paul wrote: "If there were a button and by pressing that button it would send you to heaven for eternity. But the only person responsible for pressing that button was you, would you press it?"

I love how you put this. And it is true.
And all humans, except Adam and Eve, started out from hell. They cannot be given the button to maximum torture because the button is already pressed, and it is on count down.
All of humanity is given another button that sends you to eternal reunion with God (who is the source of life and joy and all things good), but the individual is responsible to push there own button.
The question is, will you, fellow sinner, push the second button?