The History Book Club discussion

For those of you who have completed the book and/or who want to discuss aspects of the book which are beyond our weekly assignments in the non spoiler threads, this thread is a spoiler thread where you can discuss those points.

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We try to move along the discussion slowly on the weekly non spoiler threads but realize that some folks like to move along swiftly. So we have options for both groups of folks.

by Tim Weiner

Review of Enemies: A History of the FBI

Tim Weiner has given us a thorough, well researched, and well written history of the FBI from its formation to the present day. The book brings out very well the turmoil and fear of Americans during the early years of the 1900s. I don't think we fully realize today the palpable anxiety and worry so many felt during those days when empires were toppled, assassinations were frequent, and undercover activity seemed to be taking place everywhere. Many were fearful of the possibility of an overthrow of the government and of the loss of our freedoms by some subversive force. All of this uncertainty and fear led to the birthing of the FBI. And J. Edgar Hoover was the right man at the right moment to use that fear and uncertainty to build the FBI into how own powerhouse of control and domination through much of the 20th century. The author gives us a fascinating, frightening, disturbing look into the creation and growth of the organization under the control of Hoover. There is so much political maneuvering that has taken place behind the scenes of the news that is visible to us from day to day...so much through the years that we generally know little about. It can be sobering and frightening to observe how one man, or a few men, can influence, drive, and determine so much the direction that our country is headed. A very fascinating and engaging book.

Lewis Codington

I'm glad you liked it Lewis! It really opens your eyes.

I just finished the book and posted my full review elsewhere, but I wanted to say I thoroughly enjoyed reading Enemies but felt a little overwhelmed at times while caught up in its narrative.

It's such a well-researched and fascinating book, but there were so many times in the book where important events were being written about and after a few paragraphs or pages of description, Mr. Weiner moved on quickly to the next challenge facing the FBI. And I just wanted to yell 'whoa' at the book and let me think a little about what that event meant before having to focus on a new crisis.

It's tough to review because I really do fell like I learned a lot by reading Enemies, but I don't think I really have any greater understanding of why the FBI became the important crime-fighting agency it has come to signify.

So I gave it an A-. I live near an FBI agent and I plan on lending it to him to let him read it and see what his thoughts are.

Thanks, Craig. I guess Tim focuses on the intelligence aspect of the FBI, not crime. Could that be the reason you felt a little lost?

His focus on intelligence obviously is the connection throughout the book and I thought, for instance, it was very thorough and riveting at times (9/11, Red Scares, stories about American spies), but then there were other moments in the book (Waco, hunt for MLK's assassin, Civil Rights Era) that important history and the FBI's involvement was being described at breakneck speed.

Craig wrote: "His focus on intelligence obviously is the connection throughout the book and I thought, for instance, it was very thorough and riveting at times (9/11, Red Scares, stories about American spies), b..."

Understood, thanks Craig.

I thought this book was an excellent choice for the Goodreads History Club as the topic opens up controversial discussion. There is true cause for the FBI to exist and it plays a vital role in the ongoing balancing act between protectionism versus liberty and personal freedom.

Hoover appeared to be fully married to the FBI. The bureau deals with many ongoing issues, but Hoover was foremost consumed with Communism, which was a very real threat in his time and continues to be today. However unchecked control by any person or organization eventually leads to a problem within itself. A bloated bureaucracy of excessive far reaching files for ulterior motives does not serve democracy or taxpayers.

Today when so many folks of all ages absorb history through sensationalistic Hollywood movies, I found it refreshing that Tim Weiner, a professional writer, journalist, researcher and historian, through “Enemies”, provided one further example as to the value of a book.

Thanks for joining us, Mark, and I'm glad you also enjoyed the book.

Thanks to all of you who skipped ahead and finished the book already and for writing your review. Commenting on this thread is a great way to discuss any aspect of the book as a whole with other members. This is a spoiler thread so the book as a whole can be discussed on this thread in addition to the posting of your reviews.

I will stay with this thread and the Q and A daily from here on in. Big questions are welcome here.

Thanks Tim for all of your support and input; terrific and for another book which has turned out to be a real eye opener.

Tim thanks for your time and letting us get to know you a bit. I wish you the best in all your future endeavors.

Thanks to you and all good readers. Let the Big Questions begin!

Tim: you end your book on a positive note. Since publication, do you still have hopes for the future?

I do. I think Mueller will go down as the greatest leader the FBI ever has had. And I think the Bureau, thanks to his leadership, is highly conscious of calibrating the balance between national security and civil liberties. When they err, they tend to admit error, which is unprecedented.

The outlook depends a great deal on who is the next President and who is the next FBI director; that matters inordinately at the Bureau because of its top-down, hierarchical organization. But I think things are as good as they ever have been in the 104-year history of the bureau. And I predict they will improve -- that is, if we don't get hit again.

Thanks, Tim, it sounds like Mueller set some great precedents for the next director.

I really enjoyed this book and have posted my review on Goodreads as well. Thank you for the opportunity to read this and also getting to read others insights in addition to the author!

Thanks David!

Glad you liked it, David. Thanks for joining us.

Before reading this book, my main knowledge of the FBI was as a crime-stopper, especially during Prohibition and the Mafia, via my parents telling stories of that period, and the TV series 'Eliot Ness'. Then later I thought of the FBI as an 'enemy' of the non-violent protestors of the Vietnam War and just before that, with Martin Luther King, Jr. and the civil rights movement. I had believed that the overseas spying and communists hunt (and too often witch-hunt) was all the CIA's work, with the FBI only involved in the actual arrest of the spies.

This book was quite an eye-opener for me. It affirmed what a dictator Hoover had been, but it was frightening to see how much control he had for so long. He was a skillful manager and manipulator, and was a classic example of someone being in the right place at the right time and taking full advantage of any situation. It was startling to learn how many innocent people he chased, and ruined, long before the civil rights movement and Vietnam War protests. His paranoia about communism and the party members being 'everywhere' was the foundation of his actions; I had thought it had been his obsession with the philosophy that anyone who questioned or protested the US government in any way was a traitor.

There are a number of areas covered in this excellent survey/story of the FBI that could be pursued by themselves, especially with more and more secret files being released nowadays.

This book was very clearly written, an move-right-along read with a lot of history. I agree that this was an excellent choice for the History Book Club.

I ask Tim if he is working on another book and the subject, and if he has any intentions of closely writing about any of the plentiful areas covered in "Enemies"?

I'd like to thank Random House and the group's moderators for providing us with a copy of the book! Also many thanks to author Tim Weiner for staying tuned in to our endless questions :)

Q: Is it possible that someday the government will reach a point where it no longer needs/resorts to the FBI?

Thanks so much for your great posts, Natacha. Glad you joined us.

I would also like to thank our author, Tim, for answering questions and writing such an interesting book. Bravo.

You are all most welcome! Don't forget to post in the Q and A thread in our last days....

Natacha asked: Is it possible that someday the government will reach a point where it no longer needs/resorts to the FBI?
I don't think so. Any nation projecting power with a standing army needs intelligence services, foreign and domestic -- like it or not.

Virginia asked if I am working on another book. Yes, I am. It's a history of the American military from Japan to Afghanistan. It will be the last book in the trilogy which began with LEGACY OF ASHES and ENEMIES.

We really look forward to the new book, Tim, thanks for letting us know. So, when you mean Japan, are you talking about WWII?

From the end of WWII onwards....

Great, I can imagine the occupation of Japan is a ripe source of how the military handles different functions.

Your new book sounds very interesting; it will cover quite a lot of active history and the various U.S. enemies and U.S.-involved wars since 1945.

An outstanding read. Thanks to the moderators for their hard work and to Tim for so actively participating with us.

This was my first GoodReads discussion group. I purchased the book and jumped in - and so glad I did.

I found the book fascinating and disturbing. It challenged many of my beliefs and perceptions. From the "Red Scares" through World War II, the Civil Rights era, the '60s to the War on Terror, I gained new insights and realized that there are more questions than answers available.

New information sometimes was dumbfounding. The fact that, to try to get us into WWII, Churchill and British intelligence concocted a false German plot and shared it with us as real information was eye opening.

Great job - thanks Tim!

You are all most welcome! Thanks for a great experience. See you in two or three years....

Glad you enjoyed it , Brian. Hope you join us at another time.

I am sorry I didn't finish this along with everyone else. As a result of reading this book, I will read Legacy of Ashes: The History of the CIA.
My abbreviated review of Enemies is here: http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
by Tim Weiner

Also, can someone tell me if I posted this correctly? Thanks!

Hi, G. I'm glad you liked the book. I do recommend his other book, as well.

You are close to doing the citations correctly. Just flip the book cover to follow the other:

by Tim Weiner

Bryan wrote: "Hi, G. I'm glad you liked the book. I do recommend his other book, as well.

You are close to doing the citations correctly. Just flip the book cover to follow the other:

[bookcover:Legacy of A..."
Thanks!

Very welcome, again, glad you liked the book. Did you have some favorite parts to share?

Yes, thanks. Just some snapshots really. For example, GHW Bush - maybe because of his experience with the UN and CIA and after some missteps, he chose to take the terrorists to court. He decided to follow the law, a very American approach. It changed my opinion of the man (not his presidency, just the man).

Also, probably 20/20 hindsight, but the lack of appreciation for the developing terrorist threat, both internal and external, even after Qadaffi and Lockerbie is mind boggling.

And finally the dichotomy that was Hoover. He actually had a vision. It was corrupted and become tunnel vision but I think if you took the early Hoover and dropped him into his position in the 1980's - 90's our approach to modern terrorism would have been different. So my questions ultimately are: Was the FBI better because of Hoover and is the US better off because of the FBI?

Some great tidbits, G. You raised some big questions at the end. I'm not so sure the FBI fared so well under Hoover. I think the FBI might have had a better crime reputation than intelligence. You wonder who would have filled the void if we did not have an FBI, but on the other hand, the FBI played a big role in created distrust.

Bryan, you did a great job moving the discussion along and keeping things moving in the right direction.

Good job.

Thanks Bentley, it was an interesting book.

I'm glad I can help make this THE place to discuss history books on the web.

You certainly have done more than your part and I for one appreciate your enthusiasm, hard work and great moderating talents. Brilliant. Well Done.

Wow, I'm really late in finishing and writing my review of the book, but I said I would so here are my thoughts. I didn't have high hopes for this book, I thought it would be dry based on its topic and thickness. However, I really like how the book was laid out, covering an era at a time and what was going on in the nation and how the FBI reacted to it. It made the book very easy to follow and a nice read. While I was not very excited about the story, it was not the first book I picked up when I had time to read, it was well written. It did have some fairly excited parts for me like when discussing spies especially. I wish there would have been more discussed about spies as that is very interesting to me. However, I realize that this would have left the book astray of its intended topic.

I learned a lot about the history of the FBI so the book succeeded in its goal. I had no idea that Hoover was such a large part of the agency. For the first 2/3 of the book I felt like I was reading his biography.

Overall, I enjoyed the book and would recommend it to anyone with an interest in the FBI. I now feel I have a better understanding of one of our nations super secret agencies.

Better late than never Jason and I am glad that you added your thoughts. They are very appreciated. Weiner did a terrific job,

I'm glad you posted, too, Jason. It is great and important to understand our context and history. I really appreciate how wireless taps in the last ten year was not new in our history. Very interesting.

This was a terrific book. Disturbing, insightful, fascinating, and the detail and directness in the writing is first rate. I agree with Craig that sometimes it clipped along so fast I really did have to stop and think about it before forging on.

Full disclosure: I received this book in a Goodreads giveaway through The History Book Club. Thank you Random House. I will double the favor and pass this book along to another interested reader.

Thanks for posting, Alisa. Hope the other reader will enjoy it, too.

My future brother-in-law, we are both readers and swap books all the time. I shared Legacy of Ashes: The History of the CIA with him and he was riveted with that book. I know he is looking forward to this one.

by Tim Weiner

Very good.

Alisa wrote: "This was a terrific book. Disturbing, insightful, fascinating, and the detail and directness in the writing is first rate. I agree with Craig that sometimes it clipped along so fast I really did ..."

I hadn't heard of this book, and my hubby is a former FBI agent! I think we'll need to look for this and both read it!

Indeed, Sandra, let us know how you and your husband like it.