Fantasy Geeks discussion

I write adult fantasy, meaning that even if sometimes my characters are young in age, they're usually considered adults by their culture - at least the Humans are able to inherit lands at 16, it's different for the Magical Races who are more long-lived.
So I'm kind of tired of fantasy coming-of-age tales, because I'm getting old and grumpy and can't relate to teenagers struggles, LOL!
Any good fantasy with adult characters you can point me to? I'm also not too keen on "hero's journeys" or "good vs evil" epic fantasy... but I guess that's why I'm a writer, LOL!

I have read some Terry Pratchet, but he wrote so many books it's hard to catch up, LOL!
And, Jaq, you're on my Smashwords library, so sooner or later I'll get to your world! :-)

My character, Lilith, is fourteen. It is a coming of age story, but also a tale of betrayal and bloody revenge :) Definitely not YA!

But yes, Barb, I know what you mean. One of my favourite authors is Sheri S Tepper. Her main character in Grass is our age, and I absolutely love the layers to her character. Of course Sheri S Tepper is a mixture of fantasy/sci fi.

As long as it's not Star Wars revisited (Eragon anyone?), I guess I can follow younger characters... ;-)

As long as it's a character with attitude. :)

Barbara,
I understand your weariness with the many YA and urban fantasy stories. I prefer to write fantasy for/about adults. Characters in my stories are 30-45 years old.

And there are dragonettes. Just luv those little guys.

Lita

Lita wrote: "Barbara,
I understand your weariness with the many YA and urban fantasy stories. I prefer to write fantasy for/about adults. Characters in my stories are 30-45 years old.

And there are dragonett..."

Whoot! Added to my Smashwords library (a.k.a. WishList)the only title available there! ;-)

Now I just read a YA book with a great young character. The book is: Angelfall. It's written by an indie writer too! Penryn is smart, strong and wise. Personally, I wouldn't have called Angelfall YA at all. I've always felt YA to be for ages 12-14, but now it stretches into the early twenties, which to me, is adult. So now I'm looking to read more YA. :)

Angelfall was for older readers than HP, there's a certain amount of horror (nothing too much, but not for young ones!). And I think the main character, Penryn was about eighteen or nineteen? (Old enough to drive but not drink, in the US?) It was written by an indie author too, although she's been signed on by a publisher now. An enjoyable read, and I'd be buying the second book in a shot if it was out yet.

YA fantasy can be good, I think, if the author infuses it with themes that transcend childhood/teenagehood. HP is about a boy coming into his powers and growing as a person from his experiences. The Hunger Games is both a coming-of-age and a precautionary tale. A lot of my adult friends adore those two books, while simultaneously shaking their respective fists at books like Twilight and Magyck and Inkheart.

I haven't read The Hunger Games yet, but I think I will need to. So many people can't be wrong. Have you read Angelfall?

I've been eye-balling it for a while but since I tend to buy most of my books second-hand to save money, it might be a while before my grubby paws get ahold of a grubby copy lol.

You should definitely read the Hunger Games! And if you--or any of the rest of you--like it, I kind of collect books like it, so feel free to ask me or check out my "play the game or die" shelf.

I'm so totally not obsessed with THG series...

Angelfall is 2.99 on amazon (kindle). She's an indie author (but has just signed on with a publishing house). No, I don't get a commission and I don't know her. :) I will read The Hunger Games. I'll add it to my shelf now. :)

I LOVED book 1 of THG, book 2 was MEH and I HATED book 3! I can't even really tell you why either!

Sara wrote: "Georgina wrote: "Now I just read a YA book with a great young character. The book is: Angelfall. It's written by an indie writer too! Penryn is smart, strong and wise. Personally, I wouldn't have c..."

I loved it! Penryn and Raffe are great characters, and Penryn's mum! :0

Barbara wrote: "I write adult fantasy, meaning that even if sometimes my characters are young in age, they're usually considered adults by their culture - at least the Humans are able to inherit lands at 16, it's ..."

You are not the only one SICK of teenage heroes. I cannot comprehend the fate of the world resting o the shoulders of a child because children are "pure" or some batcrap reason like that. When I read a book synopsis and it says "15 year-old" or "16-year-old" or some crap like that, I don't look further into it unless I really like the cover. I'm a bit tired of those type of books, and I was a teenager 2 months ago and back then I couldn't stand it. As a teen, I wantd something SMART to read.

I always wonder this about a YA book: Why would you be crazy about a boy? What would he bring for you in the long run? You can save the world without thinking about love or school. I still have some of those thoughts now.

Kuroshitsuji did it RIGHT when it came to kid heroes. Ciel Phantomhive, a creepy 12-year-old with an eyepatch, was the center of the story but the book also focused on his butler, Sebastian. I liked how it was done. It wasn't all centered around the kid. Code Geass also did it in a similar fashion. The show's hero, Lelouch, seemed morelike an adult than a 17-year-old.

I admit writing about teenage characters, but I made sure to place non-YA themes around 'em (one of those stories dealt with baby mama issues). I think YA authors should be smart with their teenage heroes. Put some real thought to them, maybe a few grown-up themes and peril that is uncommon in teen books.

Oi! My Lilith's fourteen! She'll come and whop you if you say things like that (or worse). Yep, it's all about attitude.

Georgina wrote: "Oi! My Lilith's fourteen! She'll come and whop you if you say things like that (or worse). Yep, it's all about attitude."


LOL!
Well, I have teenaged characters too, but in my world, Humans can inherit land at 16, which makes them officially adult, right? The Magical Races being more long lived, can be childish for a lot longer, like up to their 20s (or hundreds if they're Fajrulo - my own dragons, for you dragon-lovers out there - as they take 300 years to grow up, 300 to live and 300 to die), so...

Yes, sixteen definitely can be adult! Hey, there have been cardinals and kings younger than that. My Demigod is one, and he's already getting up to all sorts of mischief. I'm deep in his world now. Lots of sex and gore. This is the fun side of writing.:D:D

Hi Barbara, this is an interesting point you bring up, but I think an odd one. YA Fantasy is written for young adults, and in reading the samples provided for ebooks at least, that's probably quite clear from the start so, rather than being down on YA fantasy, why not just read something else?
I think YA FAntasy is particularly important in bring Young Adults back to reading, and whether or not you like e.g. JKRowlings, she's done all writers a favour by bringing millions of young people back to loving books (rather than game boys or whatever they have now).
One of the reasons the traditional publishing industry has collapsed is the lack of choice in books being released. I think it's great to have a full range of subjects and genres available to all to make those choices.
So rather than let it get up your nose, be happy for the people who enjoy writing YA, and accept that it isn't your cup of tea, and look for something that's more appropriate for you.
As a famous man once said, so little time, so many books!
Cheers
Bruce

I don't think Barb's letting it get to her. I think she's raising the idea and having a laugh at the same time. She's a fantasy writer, like you and I Bruce. Not really the uptight sort. :)

No, that's cool, I just thought it was important to point out horses for courses, and how important to all writers it is to appeal to young adults to bring them back to reading. :)

Speaking as an avid YA reader--I'm 22--I find it disturbing that so many of the YA books out there these days are so vapid and shallow. Obviously, there's the stunning exceptions like the Harry Potter series, and the His Dark Materials trilogy, and The Hunger Games (major obsessions!) but many others are stupid to the point of sheer ridiculousness. There are only so many times I can read about:

OMG! WHAT SHOULD I WEAR??!?!
OMG! WHO SHOULD I ASK TO PROM/THE BALL/MARRY ME?!?!
OMG! SO MUCH DRAMA! WHY DO PEOPLE HATE ON ME FOR BEING AWESOME!!!?!?

or

OMG! I AM A KID. AND THE DECISIONS I MAKE NOW ARE SO SIGNIFICANT THAT THEY WILL IMPACT MY LIFE FOREVS!!!

without causing my walls some serious structural damage by chucking all these books at them.

Two of my favorite stories of ALL TIME, which I've kept since grade school, are Ella Enchanted and Fire and Hemlock. Every time I read these books, it's always as magical as that first time because the authors are able to layer their stories with meaning. There's the magical story for the young readers, the romance for the teen readers, and the symbolism for the older readers. Like, I had no idea until college that F&H was a retelling of Tam Lin! And then I read the story and compared it to F&H and was like OMG! MIND = BLOWN! (if you haven't read Ella or F&H, you should--best YA fantasies ever)

I'm not quite sure why so many authors feel they need to talk down to their audiences. Many young adults are capable of surprising insight--especially when it comes to social relationships. My biggest beef is that it rarely brings anything new to the table. Every once in a while you get an original idea and then there's a flurry of people who all rush out to copy it, only badly.

We should start a bookshelf for this group with awesome YA classics that EVERYONE should read!

I think that's a great idea, Pikachu!

Yes, agreed, Bruce. :)

Bruce, Gina is right - I don't read YA, but I was wondering what the fuss is about, because it seems so huge now! Even writers want to write that because it's so huge - but I can't bring myself to write for that age group (although I've been told my books could be for "new adults" which is probably Pikachu's age).
But, like I said, I've long forgotten my YA years and I'm glad YA of today read it. I guess readers are mostly YA and was wondering if there were other adults around, that's all! :-)

I like reading YA, I wouldn't want to write in that genre though, too many restrictions in terms of sex and violence. :D

Is it a genre? Or an age group? Usually I'd say age group, but it's become something more...

Sarajayne wrote: "Barbara wrote: "I have read some Terry Pratchet, but he wrote so many books it's hard to catch up, LOL!
And, Jaq, you're on my Smashwords library, so sooner or later I'll get to your world! :-)"

Y..."

Yes, I've re-read them all several times too. Pratchett is my comfort author. Really stressful times, I'll reach for a Disc World novel.

Bruce, Gina is right - I don't read YA, but I was wondering what the fuss is about, because it seems so huge now! Even writers want to write that because it's so huge - but I can't bring myself to write for that age group (although I've been told my books could be for "new adults" which is probably Pikachu's age).
But, like I said, I've long forgotten my YA years and I'm glad YA of today read it. I guess readers are mostly YA and was wondering if there were other adults around, that's all! :-)

Hi Barbara, yes it is, and it's because of the success of Harry Potter. We'd all like to be the next JKR, and so, many people try. But there's nothing wrong with that is there. By the way, I wasn't having a go at you, oky?
As for you Gina, you bad girl.
YA is an agegroup.
YA Fiction is an agegroup and a genre.
Slap your bottom, and where's my coffee?????
Bruce :)

Yes, bad, and hopeless too. But my once a fortnight (sometimes a month) foray into town is coming up! We will get coffee! I'm thinking Lotus Eaters? Will want to combine it with cake of course. Ice cream a distinct possibility. Early next week? Alex may come too, why pass up an excuse to get coffee and cake?:)

Georgina wrote: "We will get coffee! I'm thinking Lotus Eaters? Will want to combine it with cake of course. Ice cream a distinct possibility. Early next week? Alex may come too, why pass up an excuse to get coffee and cake?:) "

Did you say cake?

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I had to do it! Gotta love that Meme!

YES!!!! FOR SCIENCE!!!! GLaDOS WILL BE PROUD OF US!

I had no clue you were a Portal fan!

Google translated your Portal speech as: "your promised reward is merely a fictitious motivator"...

I don't know, there's something really spooky about that cake...

Yes, it looks like it's about to explode...

Everyone loves Portal! GLaDOS is the best! In a totally evil-I-want-to-kill-you way :D

This was a triumph!

Georgina wrote: "Yes, it looks like it's about to explode..."

It's bound to explode. GLaDOS made it with love. The recipe:
one 18.25 ounce chocolate cake mix
one can prepared coconut pecan frosting
3/4 cup vegetable oil
4 large eggs
one cup semi-sweet chocolate chips
3/4 cup butter or margarine
1 2/3 cup granulated sugar
2 cups all purpose flower
don’t forget garnishes such as:
fish shaped crackers
fish shaped candies
fish shaped solid waste
fish shaped dirt
fish shaped Ethel benzine
pull n’ peel licorice
fish shaped volatile organic compounds
and sediment shaped sediment
candy coated peanut butter pieces; shaped like fish
one cup lemon juice
alpha resins
unsaturated polyester resin
fiberglass surface resins
volatile malted milk impoundments
9 large egg yokes
12 medium geosynthetic membranes
one cup granulated sugar
an entry called: “How To Kill Someone With Your Bare-Hands”
2 cups rhubarb; sliced
2/3 granulated rhubarb
1 Tbsp all-purpose rhubarb
1 tsp grated orange rhubarb
3 Tbsp rhubarb; on fire
1 Large rhubarb
1 cross Bohr hole electromagnetic imaging rhubarb
2 Tbsp rhubarb juice
adjustable aluminum head positioned
slaughter electric needle injector
cordless electric needle injector
injector needle driver
injector needle gun
cranial caps
and it contains proven preservatives, deep penetration agents, and gas and oder control chemical’s that will deodorize and preserve putrid tissue.

Does everyone have their weighted companion cubes?! I Love my weighted companion cube!

I suspect I need my translator cube first....:D

"1 Large rhubarb
1 cross Bohr hole electromagnetic imaging rhubarb
2 Tbsp rhubarb juice
adjustable aluminum head positioned
slaughter electric needle injector
cordless electric needle injector
injector needle driver
injector needle gun
cranial caps
and it contains proven preservatives, deep penetration agents, and gas and oder control chemical’s that will deodorize and preserve putrid tissue. "

I blame the rhubarb.

I definitely prefer characters from 25 and up. Maybe the thinking is that younger characters are more dynamic because they can change so much in a year between 18 and 19, more than say between 50 and 51. But I prefer heroes that already have some skills and proficiencies in life and come in with a background.

Jaq wrote: Some of us have been away from teenage issues too long to identify with the never-ending 15-16 year old heroes. I also like reading that takes me in-depth. Most of the YA offerings are one-dimensional and often cranked out at a book a month to sell a series rather than to tell good stories.

That is very true, Jaq. I remember having the false sense as a teenager that my peak in life would be around 17-22 in terms of social importance, probably thanks to such books, movies, and games (and maybe the education system). Great books be praised it's not true.

well i think YA serves an important purpose, it helps keep the intrest of the young reader. it's like a gateway drug for books. You start on a little light potter, but as you mature you might want something with a martial flare, why not the Black Company series, or something a bit more grown up while still having at it's core some decency and the clasic good vs evil motif. well Dovie'andi se tovya sagain with the wheel of time, that series has so many awesome quotes. my point is that i wish there were as many YA authors out when i was a kid.think about it,if not for the notable YA series out how many young adults would be reading fantasy at all? I think it's good for the whole genre for kids to start early.they are our future authors after all.

Luis wrote: "I think it's good for the whole genre for kids to start early.they are our future authors after all."

Indeed, but what about us not so young anymore? If everybody is writing YA, what are "older" people going to read?
I think there are enough YA writers at this time to invite all the teens to read - if they're so inclined. I would like to see more adult fantasy, and it doesn't have the old good vs.evil story either.
Character interaction is what interests me. My science fantasy series has a couple of kids (and one is so smart he tends to outshine his own telepathic father, LOL), but the protagonists are in their mid-20s to mid-30s.
I guess it depends on the story you want to tell. YA is for the coming of age stories. Adult can differentiate a little and explore other themes. And it's always always a matter of reader's taste! :)