The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

The thread is now open to discuss Book 3, Chapters 5-12. Please post your thoughts below.

(Sorry it is late - completely forgot to do this yesterday!).

My thoughts on this section:

The relationship and the evolution of the relationship between Bertha and Nurreddin was interesting because she as a woman is a stronger character than he is as a warrior.

I would have liked to read, however, more of the details of their conversations. One minute there is no chance he would convert, and the next, he's asking to be baptized.

Part of that is the Christian bent of the novel; Christianity has to win in the end. But Fouque uses a woman to do so rather than another knight who would "conquer" the "enemy." And she does it with words rather than mere physical strength or weapons.

Theobaldo continues to confuse. He appears to have gone to the "dark" side when he calls up two storms that blow their ship off course, both times for his own gain, to go to Genoa instead of France. And then he toys with Sir Folko when he makes himself into multiple images. But at the same time, he doesn't kill Folko, which it appears he could quite easily do. Then, Theobaldo appears as an old man to Folko, but dismisses him, saying that his revenge has nothing to do with Folko, and Folko is just in the way.

The book is called "The Magic Ring" but again, we don't seem to see much of it except for these kind of "tricks" from Theobaldo.

We have a "bad" break in chapters, leaving us hanging as to who the knights are at the altar. Obviously, not good, but I thought it was interesting that the charcoal-man at one point thought Otto was one of the knights from the altar of Freia. I immediately thought of Ottur, but could be very wrong. Only time will tell.

Also, it will be interesting to see what happens with Lady Minnatrost's prediction that one of them (Otto, Heerdegen or Arinboirn) may not return from the altar alive.

Also, the love affair between Gabrielle and Sir Folko. On one hand, it is a bit wrong for them to hurt Otto. But on the other hand, Gabrielle never really loved Otto. She used him to get the ring, but from the beginning, it was clear she wasn't that fond with that part of the deal. He was very young at the time as well.

It will also be interesting to see what will happen with Bertha and Nurreddin. Obviously, Nurreddin is interested in her as a woman as well. Are those feeling returned by Bertha? Or does she still love Otto?

Bertha seems to be becoming more and more ethereal, but I don't think her love for Otto has ever changed. I'm betting those two wind up together in the end -- much wiser, perhaps, than when we first found them by the pond.

Theobaldo confounds me, too. Every time he acts like an ass, he stops, reflects, and becomes humble enough to admit he's wrong or to apologize. If I think about it, in real life, I don't know many men who have those virtues (tho' I do know many who can act like an ass).

I'm reading Christopher Booker's The Seven Basic Plots: Why We Tell Stories, and he mentions that in Quest stories there is often a character who is, tho' a side-kick of the protagonist, in many ways the antithesis and opposite in character and disposition (but is not the antagonist or villain). Sort of a dark side of the mirror reflection of the protagonist. Maybe this is Theobaldo's role?

Booker also says that in a group of characters on a quest all the characters might represent some aspect of the protagonist, which might be why I keep thinking Bertha is somehow a female Otto.

Janice George wrote: "Bertha seems to be becoming more and more ethereal, but I don't think her love for Otto has ever changed. I'm betting those two wind up together in the end -- much wiser, perhaps, than when we fir..."

Smiling as I read your comments about men. It is a good thing we don't have any men in this particular read. :-)

And thanks for the information on Booker's book, and I like the idea about Theobaldo being the mirror of Otto.

I agree that Bertha is a female Otto. Both of them have grown throughout the book. I wasn't shy at the beginning of our discussion about how I couldn't connect to his character and that I thought he was immature. But he truly has turned out to be very honorable in all his dealings, and has become a true fictional hero: brave in battle, loyal to his friends, compassionate with his enemies.

The same with Bertha...at first she seemed merely weepy and heartbroken. But she also has grown and is an incredibly strong heroine. Defender of the faith, converts Nurreddin, is intelligent.

BTW, Janice, I'm assuming that you are a fan of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Ring.

I'm looking forward to the film The Hobbit. The LOTR trilogy was so incredible that I can only expect wonderful things from The Hobbit.

Although, at first I was a bit annoyed because they "stole" a few of my favorite actors from some of my favorite television shows: Aidan Turner completely gone from Being Human, and Martin Freeman and Benedict Cumberbatch from Sherlock (filming for season 3 delayed for months and months).

But I think that Martin will be wonderful as Bilbo Baggins. Although not a good use of Aidan Turner's good looks, making him one of a dwarfs. ;) Ditto for Benedict Cumberbatch as Smaug, the dragon - he's obviously only the voice - but then again, Ben has that wonderful voice.

It's been so long also since I've read the book that quite frankly besides the overall direction of the story, I've forgotten a lot of the details.

Lynnm wrote: "BTW, Janice, I'm assuming that you are a fan of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Ring.

I'm looking forward to the film The Hobbit. The LOTR trilogy was so incredible that I can only expect wonderful..."

And now I must make my confession: while everyone else was reading The Lord of the Ring, I was reading Mervyn Peake's Gormenghast trilogy... a darkly wild fantasy full of humor and gothic-laden images of a castle beyond description. It ruined me for any other fantasies for years and years, and so, no -- I have not yet read LoTR, nor The Hobbit.

Meanwhile, back to The Magic Ring, I do have to say that I am a little disappointed and growing impatient with Fouque's so obvious evangelizing (and I am Catholic, so it's not from any sort of anti-religious stance).

Sometimes, as they say, less is more.

Janice George wrote: "Meanwhile, back to The Magic Ring, I do have to say that I am a little disappointed and growing impatient with Fouque's so obvious evangelizing (and I am Catholic, so it's not from any sort of anti-religious stance). "

I totally agree. I'm also Catholic so don't have any issues with it, but it is just too much. Obviously, it is set in medieval times, and therefore, the center will be fighting for the Christian faith. I just didn't expect so much emphasis on the Christian aspect. I really thought it would mostly be the quest for the ring, which has taken a back seat through most of the book. (Not that I don't like the book - besides the evangelizing, I have quite enjoyed it and very glad we did the buddy read.)

And as I wrote for the next section, for someone who is obviously evangelizing, Fouque doesn't really make Christianity very attractive. Incredibly severe and rigid.

Thanks for the tip - I will definitely put the Gormenghast trilogy on my "to read" list.

And since we are confessing, I have to admit that while I liked the Hobbit and the LOFR trilogy, I found them tedious after awhile, and had to read many books in between each one. To be honest, I liked the films far more than the books. Which is rare for me - I usually like a book over its film version.

But again, I did like them, and glad I read them.