The Mystery, Crime, and Thriller Group discussion

Who would you nominate as some of the most interesting female sleuths through the ages? I'm speaking at a Literary Lunch next week and my topic will be Women of Mystery. I'd like to include heroines from different decades and/or centuries for a discussion on how our ideals and the mystery genre have changed over time. Who would you nominate?

Without a doubt, Miss Marple would be on the list but for more contemporary female sleuths I would recommend Aimee Leduc in the series set in Paris byCara Black.

I would also suggest Lydia Chin in the series by S.J. Rozan

I like the interpreter of death in Ariana Franklin for medieval times, she is feisty and the author has tried hard to make it believable given the times;Harriet Vane has to be added here from the 1920's, Christie'sTuppence Beresford is great fun from the 1920's again and so is her Why didn't they ask Evans character. From the 70's we have Sara Paretsky's Vic Warshawski; from the 80's we have Sue Grafton's Kinsey Millhone and from the 90's Liza Cody's Bucket Nut- the female wrestler and her PI who do collaborate in one book; Kate Brannigan from Val Macdermid and Tess Monaghan by Laura Lippman. In the Victorian era there is Anne Perry's Elizabeth Pitt and nurse Hester and then in the new millenium there is Elizabeth George'sDC Barbara Havers and Gemma James from Deborah Crombie. Peter Robinson has an interesting detective Annie Cabbot. Hope this helps.

Wow, Priya. You've given me some great possibilities. Will be busy doing my homework. I'd also like to find some heroines (other than Miss Marple) created by authors in the early twentieth century. Any suggestions from anyone?

As Priya said, the Harriet Vane series in the Lord Peter Wimsey books by Dorothy Sayers is absolutely fabulous. The first one is Strong Poison.



by Dorothy L. Sayers

Vesuvia Adelia Rachel Ortese Aguilar, The Mistres of the Art of Death (Adelia) is a great character who is able to advoid conventional women's roles of the time by "hiding" behind her male escort/companion.

The first book has a decent mystery plot and introduces the important characters. The second book (The Serpent's Tale) gives a better historical idea with Eleanor of Aquitaine's and Fair Rosamund Clifford's triangle with King Henry II.

Excellent, Almeta. Thanks.

Linda wrote: "Excellent, Almeta. Thanks."

You are welcome!

Are you actually going to have to read these before your luncheon? Do you need to know more about the character than just our recommendation?

I've read a good many of the books/heroines recommended. I'll probably download some of the older ones I missed and try to get a sense of the characters, also I'll check out reviews. I won't be able to use all of the recommendations, will just try to offer good variety. I'm planning to talk for about half an hour and leave time for questions. I'm hoping they'll want to know a little about my new mystery, No Wake Zone, the second in my Marley Clark series.

For a rather dated female James Bond type, there's Modesty Blaise from the 60s and 70s. She was first created in 1963.

Thanks, Tom. I'm looking for some of the "dating" to see if I can spot trends.

Here's a list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_...

Brian January

Brian wrote: "Here's a list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_...

Brian January"

Wow! Ask and you shall receive.

Marjorie, Glad you mentioned P.D. James' Cordelia Gray. I did enjoy An Unsuitable Job For A Woman. I haven't read the Maisie Dobbs series but will check it out. Thanks.

How about Amelia Peabody in the series by Elizabeth Peters.

While I now have more female sleuths than I can possibly salute in my talk, I'm going to save this list. I teach the occasional course and these suggestions are great. I may just expand my talk into a course. Thanks. I'll definitely look at the Abigail Adams series.

I don''t know about the best, but the first was a Miss Gladden, in a novel by Andrew Forrester Jr, The Female Detective (1863) preceded by a few months by Ruth Traill, Ruth the Betrayer, serialized 1862, by Edward Ellis. This would have been three years after Mr Bucket,in Dickens's Bleak House, the first male professional detective (a sort of P.I.). My information comes from Judith Flanders, “The Hanky-Panky War” Times Literary Supplement 18 June 2010, 14.

In my opinion the only fully realized female detective so far in Lisbeth Salander in The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo. First, she is completely in charge, and the associated male is definitely a sidekick, not the official detective who is needed to validate the woman's accusations. Second, she is completely in charge, without the tentativeness shown by Easy Rawlins, for example, in Devil In a Blue Dress. who has the parallel disempowerment of being Black. Third, unlike the more fully hardboiled V.I. Warshawski, she is fully dependent on rational detection. Warshawski is more fully in the hardboiled tradition -- reasoning suggests possible perpetrators, but the extraction of confessions by force is her primary method rather than evidence used to validate inference chains.

I don't expect everyone to agree with me in this, and better-informed people can probably suggest other detectives who better meet my three criteria.

Marjorie wrote: "Edgar Allen Poe's investigator, Auguste Dupin, predates Mr Bucket.

Poe's first Dupin story, The Murders In The Rue Morgue, was published in 1841. Two more Auguste Dupin stories, The Mystery of..."

Yes, but Dupin is a gentleman amateur, not a professional. Gentleman amateurs abound before Bucket. Pelham in 1803, for example. Moreover, he doesn't detect anything, he reasons with the facts he is given. Poe's objective was to show that a good story could be told with ratiocination alone, and about that he was certainly right. Bucket himself is not a fully realized sleuth. For that we should have to finger Anna K Green's The Leavenworth Case

I'm impressed with the historians joining this discussion. Am embarrased I don't know more about the early works. Something I'll need to remedy.

Marjorie wrote: "Has anybody mentioned Jacqueline Winspear's Maisie Dobbs series? I just started reading the series and it's very well done. The first book is Maisie Dobbs. They are set in England in the late 20s a..."

I'm going to second Marjoirie on Jacqueline Winspeare's Maisie Dobbs and P.D. James's Cordelia Gray. I'll add Amanda Cross's sleuth Kate Fansler. She's one of my favorites also.

Our book club is reading and I have just started to read[bookcover:Maisie Dobbs. because I liked Birds.
I like it that she is a woman who has been through WWI as a nurse, saw alot, understands the human condition and truly feels for her clients. I like it that she remembers what her mentor taught her, Maurice Blanche, and refers to his thoughts on how to proceed to solve a case. She is definately a 20th century emerging woman!

If you like Maisie Dobbs, try one of Charles Todd's Charles Todd novels with WWI nurse Bess Crawford. I like her even better!

One of my favorite female sleuths is Flavia de Luce from The Sweetness at the Bottom of the Pie. http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/62....

I've got a collection of Masie Dobbses on my shelf. I didn't think much of them (too cozy, maybe? -- I forget) but this discussion suggests I ought to take another look. Stay tuned.

Charles, I liked all the Masie Dobbses I've read but I do think the earlier ones are a little more "cozy" and they get more complex as the series progresses.

What about Hilda Adams, AKA Miss Pinkerton,created by Mary Roberts Rinehart in the early 20th century? More recently, I, too, have fallen hard for Flavia de Luce and her wily ways with chemistry.