21st Century Literature discussion

A few things:

First off, we passed the 500 member mark a while ago, and that's pretty cool!

Welcome all our new members, I hope some of you will introduce yourself and share some bizarre tidbit about yourself or life or interests so we may discuss it, because that's fun!

Also, I was thinking today about how often I add books to my to-read list because the amazing women who I'm lucky to have as co-moderators in this group. It sounds silly perhaps, but in our modern age we tend to ignore or poke fun at people expressing fondness and friendship over the so-called anonymity of the internet, which of course isn't actually that anonymous, but that's another story. But, the three currently active mods in this group besides myself, Sophia, Deborah, and Mikela are all sort of amazements to me. Just when you think you're buried under masses of people reading junk, who spout arguments so ridiculous and borderline crazy that it's easy to wonder at the value of the effort, you are thrown a lifeline by these literary and literate people, who read interesting books, and have interesting thoughts about them. Sure, the internet isn't a true substitute for true interpersonal relationships, but when the real world lets you down in a sea of knuckledragging oafs with what 60 years ago would have been considered a 3rd grade reading level --seriously, my grandfathers 8th grade graduate exam reading would be almost impossible for most high school/college students now...AND they had an exam, now you just graduate-- and the world (and Goodreads) is filled with seemingly endless squadrons of "writers" who couldn't start a mental fire with two words rubbed together, these smart women give me continual hope and rekindle my enjoyment of literary interaction, and inspire my hopelessly long to-read list with books I'd never have even thought of to read.

So yes, it's "just" the internet, but sometimes even a drop of water means a lot to a parched flower. Thanks ladies!

I'm humbled by the compliments, and a little bit speechless.

Thank you for making me feel so smart and appreciated.

Just want to say hello to all the new members here and thank Will, Mikela, Deborah and Sophia for being some truly excellent moderators. This group wouldn't be what is without the four of you.

Wow, I can understand Sophia and Deborah but marvel that I'm put into the same category as these very smart women. It means a tremendous lot coming from you, Will. Thank you and I'll continue to learn from the three of you.

Mikela, we'll have none of that modesty crap from you, child. You're lovely and Will is allowed to admire you as much as he chooses.

So, apart from being flattered, Will's very kind post made me think.

I'm actually uneducated, having dropped out in the 9th grade. I got a GED. I got an associate's degree in culinary arts, which is sort of snooty, but hardly intellectual. So, as someone who wishes that they could have had the opportunity to study literature and writing, but didn't Will's compliments really hit some soft spots for me, and made me feel less insecure.

Ok, now I'm not sure how I got from there to here, but I wanted to talk a little about why this book club is different.

There are fine examples of commercial writing, that I read and enjoy and I don't even feel defensive about it. There are fine examples of garbage writing (you know, like the literary equivalent of Jerseylicious) I enjoy and don't feel defensive about that either.

There are a whole lot of places to discuss these works. Some of these books are worth discussing. But the world, and Goodreads hardly needs another place to discuss them. That niche is filled.

This club offers a place to explore books that will challenge, or have new truths, (or new slants on old truths) or color outside the lines. This club offers a place not just to discover the truly great works of our time, but a place to be thoughtful about them.

So, you 500 members, welcome. I hope this will be just what you wanted, that you will come and discover and be thoughtful with us.

Rostand, in Cyrano de Bergerac said, 'My elegance is internal', with apologies to Anthony Burgess for the translation. Education is internal as well. It's not degrees and school, those are tools which usually fail to shape the individual into the shape intended. All education is self-education, as there are uneducated people with advanced degrees, and educated people who never passed the 8th grade. It's just rarer since people who are likely to pursue education are also likely to be willing to stay in school to assist that. So it's understandable that people would associate school and how long you stay in it with education. However, I enjoy asking questions such as who the Vice-President or the Senators from our state are to people with degrees, or basic history, or really anything. Like Elegance, Education is internal. Never allow yourself (Gentle Reader) to feel infearior because you lack any piece of paper. Never allow yourself to feel superior because you have one. Neither has anything to do with actually knowing something.

If you want education, read.

Read some more.

Back to the subject, I fully and enthusiastically agree with everything Deborah said, with the added thought that I will personally do anything I can over time to ensure that sub-standard writing never be considered for discussion. However, recognizing that I and others are certainly very fallible, there will often times be selections that don't really make the grade in retrospect, because you can't discover NEW and exciting things without taking the risk of reading something bad. If we waited 40 years to find out if the court of public opinion (really the opinion of the Ivory Tower) thought the book worthy, we'd miss out on some splendid books. So, we take the risk, and read some junk by accident at times. For me, the thrill of discovering some book or author that I never would have tried far outweighs the occasional dud. In this age of the Internet, the issue is never access or opinion, but rather editorial. That is what we endeavor to achieve.

P.S. - @Mikela, I didn't pick you to moderate or friend or add books to my to-read list or include you in my message above randomly, I don't praise or condemn as a blanket, I meant every word about every one of you. I have enormous respect and fondness for the three of you, and lack the shyness (or some would say good sense) to be unable to express my feelings. But I think that's part of being an artist.

Like I said, Deborah, you are one very smart lady. I've discovered over the years that in addition to all the smart, highly educated people in the world there are also some very dumb people who have various degrees - formal education doesn't necessarily equate with intelligence. One of the beauties of this group is that we endeavor to discuss really good modern literature and have members with varied education, varied literary exposure, but who all share a desire to read and intelligently discuss these marvellous (for the most part) books with others who share the same desire. Each member brings with them their own unique perspective and insights. I welcome and appreciate each and every one of you. So glad to have you with us.

Mikela wrote: "One of the beauties of this group is that we endeavor to discuss really good modern literature and have members with varied education, varied literary exposure, but who all share a desire to read and intelligently discuss these marvellous (for the most part) books with others who share the same desire. Each member brings with them their own unique perspective and insights"

Absolutely. I tried once (and only once) to join a book group in 'real' life and left after only a couple of sessions. It was more like a social club than a book group.

I really appreciate that we discuss such a wide range of books and that the responses are only about the books – and not about flights of fancy about where we'd like to go on holiday!

I also enjoy the wide range of opinions shared in what feels to me like a very 'safe' space. So, a vote of thanks to Will, too, who manages us and the books, et al with some considerable skill.

Please don't apologize for your English. It's better than that of many of us who speak only English.

Yes, sadly. You write with far more eloquence and fluidity than most native writers you'll encounter on the internet, so I look forward to being able to read a clearly constructed argument for a change.

Hi Wioletta and welcome. You will soon find that the only criticism you will ever hear is about a book we are discussing, never about how a comment is made (thank goodness). Your English is wonderful and we look forward to sharing ideas and thoughts with you.