Pre-Tolkien Fantasy discussion

Ok, so it's an acknowledged classic in the field, very much in the "road not travelled", non-Tolkienian, non-epic fantasy vein. I still have never read it (though I did make one attempt).

My question: I am learning that I hate Dickens, and both from what I recall in my early attempt, and in reviews I see that this is pretty much listed as a "Dickens for fantasy" kind of thing. Am I going to be wasting my time trying this one again if I hate Dickensian caricature and grotesquerie?

i hate to turn you off of one of my favorite pairs of books... but i found a lot of similarities between Dickens and Peake. a lot!

I read Titus Groan years ago and found it very Dickensian.

mark wrote: "i hate to turn you off of one of my favorite pairs of books... but i found a lot of similarities between Dickens and Peake. a lot!"

I have to agree with that. I also saw similarities to Kafka in the bizarre nature of the book. If you're not into characterisation, description and prose that is self-satisfying on occasion I actually would say that it may not be your type of book. It's not 'traditional fantasy' it's magical in the setting and characters.

It's been a long long time since I read Titus Groan. It really is a terrific book, a completely colourful grotesquery of weird and wonderful characters. I suppose in the sense that the characters are very vivid and over the top, and the prose could be considered very colourful and long winded, that there's a comparison to Dickens but Peake is on the whole a lot denser and darker.

Who knows, just try it. You'll know after 20 pages if it's your type of thing - i's that type of book.

Terry wrote: "Ok, so it's an acknowledged classic in the field, very much in the "road not travelled", non-Tolkienian, non-epic fantasy vein. I still have never read it (though I did make one attempt).

My quest..."


Honestly, I've never seemed to be a Dickens fan; I don't know why. But I absolutely love the Titus books. I might be more help if I actually had a better idea of what I didn't like about Dickens, but to me they are incomparable.

I started reading Gormenghast about twenty years ago - maybe even 25. I got as far as the attic room (no spoilers, honest) and loved the notion so much I didn't bother reading further.
Now I've picked the book up again and I'm ploughing through it with the intention of finishing the trilogy.
I can see how the comparison with Dickens comes about, but I also think (so far anyway) Peake has a better [i]range[/i] of characterisation. He's more like Alexandre Dumas (although I've yet to find out if anyone in Gormenghast is as awesome as the Count of Monte Cristo!).

Dr Prunesquallor and Mr Flay.

Michael wrote: "Dr Prunesquallor and Mr Flay."
Ooh, really looking forward to the next two books now!
Thanks!

It's a peculiarly English book. A study in mannerisms but certainly the first book is so chock full of beautiful imagery it's a must for any fantasy reader

I read this trilogy 35 - 40 years ago. I remember having loved Titus Groan and Gormenghast but didn't like Titus Alone. Herds of wild ponies on the roofs! Steerpike with his slingshot! Good reads but then what happened in the third?

Joe wrote: "I read this trilogy 35 - 40 years ago. I remember having loved Titus Groan and Gormenghast but didn't like Titus Alone. Herds of wild ponies on the roofs! Steerpike with his slingshot! Good reads b..."

Mervyn Peake suffered from Parkinson's disease and his condition gradually deteriorated over the years. Titus Alone is an incomplete work, being a fleshed-out set of notes, but Peake's condition prevented him from getting beyond the draft. Despite its incomplete condition, I find much in it that has stayed with me: the underground community, the glass-fronted factory, the glittering aeroplanes, etc. Most poignantly, (view spoiler)[Titus arriving at the rock at the edge of Gormenghast territory and his turning back without looking to see if his memories are true or if he is delusional (hide spoiler)].

It is thought that Peake's health was in decline from the point he entered Belsen as an official war artist, following which he had a nervous breakdown and was admitted to a psychiatric hospital to recuperate.

He left the very bare bones of a fourth book, which his wife, Maeve Gilmore, used as the basis for Titus Awakes: The Lost Book of Gormenghast.

I would heartily recommend his daughter's autobiography, a moving account of her life, the magical experience of growing up with two incredibly gifted parents, and the heartbreak of watching her father's decline: Under a Canvas Sky by Clare Peake.

Terry wrote: "Ok, so it's an acknowledged classic in the field, very much in the "road not travelled", non-Tolkienian, non-epic fantasy vein. I still have never read it (though I did make one attempt).

My quest..."

In my view, it is Dickensian only insofar as Peake's use of 'funny' names and a degree of exaggerated characterisation. The themes, setting and authorial voice are not, I feel, much like anything Dickens wrote.

Peake's characters are not cartoons but live, breathe and act in a self-consistent (if often unpredictable) way that is fully human (by which I mean, they are people rather than puppets to be moved about on a whim for narrative effect).

I love Dickens and can see, and agree with, the comparison to a degree, but Peake is his own man. It took me a couple of tries to get past the first few pages but once I'd got on the right wavelength, I was was transported! I hope you feel able to give Titus and his strange family another chance.

Michael wrote: "Joe wrote: "I read this trilogy 35 - 40 years ago. I remember having loved Titus Groan and Gormenghast but didn't like Titus Alone. Herds of wild ponies on the roofs! Steerpike with his slingshot! ..."

Interesting. Thank you for the information Michael.