Fans of Eloisa James & Julia Quinn discussion

There's nothing that I like more than an unusual romance, so to speak. I like to read about unconventional heroines and heros as well. The whole "The beautiful Duchess/maid/lady/etc..." turns me off.
So reading stories about the "ugly duckling" are right up my alley, problem is, the ones I like are really hard to come by.

So here is my questions, why do authors feel the necessity to transform the "ugly duckling" into a swan? Couldn't the fact that she is smart, or self sufficient, or a survivor be enough? Do we have to transform her into a beautiful swan? And don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against beautiful heroines, but seems to me the hero falls in love with her AFTER her transformation. Thats a bit shallow, isn't it?

So what are your thoughts? Am I alone? lol

Men are so predictable. They do everything with their eyesight. So she needs to become reasonably attractive before he can get aroused. Too sad, really.

See, but thats the thing, I don't want her to be hideous, that I get, but this is also romance, where the implausible can happen. Men don't need to be that vapid in the romance world. I can think of several examples where the heroine wasn't classically beautiful and didn't really change her appearance in the book. And seeing the hero fall in love with her because of the person she was, was far more rewarding to me, than reading, "The hero was struck by the heroines incomparable beauty. She was an angel, no, a princess, no a mermaid..." kind of thing. LOL

In hero's eyes, reasonably attractive becomes beautiful once he is in love.

EXACTLY! so there's no need to transform her into a swan, or an angel etc... kwim?

Still, stringy hair and mangy skin on her hands should be washed, dried, fluffed, and presented nicely. She should also wear a dress that FITS. These are what I mean by reasonably attractive. Too many women in the modern world of ready-made clothes wear items that DO NOT FIT and are "wrong" colors for their skin tones. Then, due to laziness and bad haircuts, end up with stringy hair on top. Makeovers matter, folks.

LOL, we are going to have to agree to a certain degree. ;-)

There are some stories I I've where she gets to stay the ugly duckling. Maggie osbournes silver lining and the first of Anne Gracie's perfect series come to mind...
There are a number of books also where if you read carefully all the comments about her beauty later in the book are in his voice or POV. That can be a lovely subtle way of showing how he has fallen in love...

Elizabeth Hoyt's TO SEDUCE A SINNER has an ugly suckling heroine who doesn't get a makeover. It's one of my favorites of hers.

Uh, that's DUCKLING! Damn auto correct!

Manda wrote: "Elizabeth Hoyt's TO SEDUCE A SINNER has an ugly suckling heroine who doesn't get a makeover. It's one of my favorites of hers."

Good example, Manda! Elizabeth Hoyt has the first chapter to that one on her website. Melisande has her hair done, and is wearing a clean dress that fits when she meets her Viscount. Her only real problem is a "meager bosom", which he learns is not any impediment to love.

See, thats kind of what I mean. He sees her as beautiful BECAUSE he got to know her first, not because she was stunning and drop dead gorgeous. Tessa Dare's latest one was such a joy because it was like that and I loved it!

Manda wrote: "Elizabeth Hoyt's TO SEDUCE A SINNER has an ugly suckling heroine who doesn't get a makeover. It's one of my favorites of hers."
I'll have to check that one out. Thank you! I've read some of her books but i dont think i read that one

Mrs.ColinBridgerton wrote: "Manda wrote: "Elizabeth Hoyt's TO SEDUCE A SINNER"
I'll have to check that one out. Thank you! I've read s..."

Jasper is my favorite sort of hero. Funny, charming, but with a depth that's belied by his easy manners.

You would also like Anne Gracie's THE PERFECT RAKE. Everyone else thinks the heroine is plain compared to her younger sister, but the hero thinks they're all nuts because he thinks she's beautiful.

Thanks Manda, I think I tried that one, but couldn't get into it. Is To Seduce a Sinner the one where the hero sleeps on the floor on a pile of blankets? If thats the one then I definitely read it. lol

Yep, that's the one. His pallet on the floor wrecks me.

One thing I'll say about THE PERFECT RAKE is that it does NOT read like the prologue. That's a book where I think the prologue does a disservice to the rest of the book. My first attempt I DNFd it. But I was sick in bed with a cold and picked it up again and fell in love.

Ah, yes, I remember it then! ha ha

I'll attempt TPR again then... just not now. ha ha

Thanks!

I totally agree with you, Mrs. Colin :) and now I'm gonna have to read Manda's recommend- Elizabeth Hoyt's TO SEDUCE A SINNER.

Its such a good book Okie, you're going to love it. I mean I remember it and I have a terrible memory, so for a book to stay with me, it means something ;-)

You know what I find most interesting is that I can think of a list of historical romances--both European and American--with plain heroines who are essentially unchanged when the heroes fall in love with them. In addition to the Gracie, Osborne, and Hoyt already mentioned, all of which I love, there's Mary Balogh's First Comes Marriage, Teresa Medeiros's Heather and Velvet,Susan Wiggs's The Charm School, Pam Morsi's Courting Miss Hattie, Deborah Simmons's The Devil Earl . . .; but I can't think of a single contemporary. Oh, and why are there so many plain heroines named Prudence? There are three on my list--the Gracie, the Medeiros, and the Simmons.

And, avoiding spoilers, I must say I loved EJ's The Ugly Duchess, and one of the things I liked best was the nature of her makeover.

Janga, funny thing is, I read most of the ones on your list and because of how lovely the stories were thats the reason I remember them and still keep those books. And I haven't read EJ's TUD but I have to say the description turned me off as soon as I saw makeover. I'm not a huge fan of EJ as it is (I am here b/c of JQ ;-) ), but should i give it a chance?

Bet Me!

Or Welcome Home Cowboy...

Mrs.ColinBridgerton, since I love the intelligence, the complex characterization, the wit, the warmth, and the fun of Eloisa's writing, I'm not sure how much my recommendation will be worth to you. All I can say is I found The Ugly Duchess a wonderful read. And while there is a makeover, it is not a conventional one. It's perfect for the character, it's smart, and it is not linked to the hero's love for her. I really don't want to say more for fear of spoilers.

Thanks for all the suggestions ladies, I will check TUD Janga and DLS, I will check WHC, but Bet Me I've already read so we are good there.
Thanks again ladies!

Your topic was one of the reasons I resisted historical romance. It was the bluestocking heroines of Amanda Quick. They are all "on the shelf", have unconventional interests, are assertive, and their primary goal is not to find a husband. In fact, most are quite content or actually want to be spinsters. They can run a household while looking answers to a puzzle.
The hero, usually a rakish sort, can't understand why he is drawn to her, and only he can see her beauty. The transformation comes from his perspective, not from the way she dresses. The only one I can think of where the heroine transforms herself is Mistress, but she really wants to go back to the way she is, without all the trappings of Society.
I think I'll give that another listen... :)

Kym you should give The Ugly Duchess a chance. I read thanks to Janga's suggestion and was in love! Beautiful love story!

THE UGLY DUCHESS is one of my recent favorites!

@Kym I LOVE Amanda Quick! Her heroines are so strong. A Paid Companion is one of my favourites! So many great books here for me to read! Can't wait