1984
discussion
Recommendations: Dystopian Novels
Don't forget the many works of Lois Lowry....almost all of her books are dystopic and amazing. Also, if you can handle graphic novels(I love them, but some people just can't read them) try Vampire Hunter D or Desert Punk (this one is a bit raunchy at times and has foul language...so be warned). They are well written and set in a dystopic future.
Yes, "The Giver" by Lois Lowry was awesome. I haven't read the sequels, though. This novel has many themes, primarily choice, that make it worth reading. Also, a new book similar to "Hunger Games" is "Divergent" by Veronica Roth. Again, I haven't read the sequels, but the first book was good.
A dystopian novel I read as a child but could not recall the name of until I just now looked it up is called "Star Split," by Kathryn Lasky, dealing with genetic alterations and the ethics (or lack thereof) surrounding it.
For classic dystopian novels, I have only read "1984" and "Animal Farm," another by Orwell.
Dystopian movies: "The Matrix" and "Gattaca" are two of the most interesting that come to mind. Also "The Book of Eli."
V for Vendetta is a comic book, but it's a great dystopian story (:
Oh, and another dystopian movie: The Island. And a book somewhat similar with Christian themes (though not entirely futuristic): The Enclave by Karen Hancock.
Atwood's The Handmaid's Tale was already mentioned. Another of her novels (part of a trilogy, actually) Oryx and Crake is brilliant.
In addition to these great suggestions we shouldn't forget Yevgeny Zamyatin's We.
Umm. Im trying to think of ones that hadnt been mentioned. The only one that comes to mind is a dean koontz novel where the goverment takes over a whole town with mind control. Midnight? Night chills? I cant remember. Dean koontz's titles are way too similar.
Battle royal! That was ok.
Ender's Game and Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep are a couple of my favorites that haven't been mentioned yet.
Jess wrote: "Ender's Game and Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep are a couple of my favorites that haven't been mentioned yet."Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? is more post-apocalyptic than dystopic.
Brave New World rivals Orwell's 1984 and if you enjoy science fiction The Foundation series by Isaac Asimov. On the topic of Science fiction, Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 is a fantastic book.
Bill wrote: "Jess wrote: "Ender's Game and Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep are a couple of my favorites that haven't been mentioned yet."Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? is more post-apocalyptic than ..."
Definitely, but I think it still has a lot of dystopian themes. The class systems based on how much a citizen has been affected by the radiation for example, or how they kind of keep society in line with the mood organs and empathy boxes. It isn't a perfect example of a dystopian novel, but I definitely think fans of the genre would enjoy it.
Jess wrote: "The class systems based on how much a citizen has been affected by the radiation for example, or how they kind of keep society in line with the mood organs and empathy boxes."I read into those elements much differently.
The "class system" was less about class, and more about emigration to other colonies off-planet. Healthier immigrants were less likely to get sick on new worlds, and people who had absorbed lower doses of radiation tended to be healthier (I may have gotten that from K. W. Jeter's sequel, though).
The mood organs struck me as less of a control mechanism, and more of a consumer product. Why else would negative settings exist, except because of consumer demand.
The empathy boxes were part religious experience, part war deterrent (if people would empathize more, they would be less inclined towards hostility).
I'm sure they may work as elements of dystopia, but they always felt better to me as the results of post-apocalyptic thinking.
Rossum's Universal Robots ("RUR") - a 1921 play by Czech writer Karel Capek.
Most people don't think of "Lord of the Flies" as dystopian novel but it technically is. It's what happens when a group of civilized British choirboys form a tribal society based on social Darwinism.
Feed by Mira Grant (Newsflesh trilogy) is a terrific book. It does involve zombies but they are mentioned much more than actually encountered. It focuses more on politics and the news media in the future. The second book Deadline is also great. Haven't read Blackout (the last book) yet but I look forward to it.
The Handmaid's Tale, by Margaret Atwood, is a fabulous dystopian tale that delves into themes of (anti)feminism.
I would strongly recommend We, by Yevgeny Zamyatin, the book that started Orwell on his journey that would lead to 1984. The rest have been covered so far, so I won't mention any beyond that one.Might I recommend, I did a post in honor of Dystopian Lit since my group and I were doing an anthology on the topic. It's very non-threatening ;)
http://storiesbywilliams.com/2012/03/...
Fatherland by Robert Harris
Bill wrote: "Jess wrote: "The class systems based on how much a citizen has been affected by the radiation for example, or how they kind of keep society in line with the mood organs and empathy boxes."I read ..."
I think much of the things you talk about here can be found in Brave New World by Huxley, a dystopian book. But you may be right, perhaps it's just elements...
Anthem by Ayn RandHarrison Bergeron by Kurt Vonnegut Jr. (Technically just a short story, but it is well worth the read)
Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury is one of my favorites. It imagines a future where the firemen burn books to discourage people from independent thought. Excellent read!
Also, as an author of a dystopian novel, I've got to plug my own work: We, The Watched. It's a dystopian novel about struggling to conform in a surveillance society.
Author Jacob Prytherch sent me a nice email to thank me for including his book "Binary Man" on my list of my favorite dystopian novels. I'm sharing it with other forum members: ==============================================
"Hello Gavin,
Thanks for recommending my book The Binary Man on this thread! It means a lot, I'm trying to get my writing career off the ground and hopefully break America a little more than I have. I'm honoured to be in anyone's top three of anything!
Again, thank you!
All the best,
Jacob Prytherch"
========================================
What a guy! It's not often you get a note from the author to thank you for including his book on a reading list... it made my day.
Find out more about Jacob at this link: http://www.amazon.com/Jacob-Prytherch...
Jacob's second novel, Heal The Sick, Raise The Dead, is due out in autumn of 2012.
At this point I'd like to present my own dystopian YA novel, Discarded Faces, available at http://www.double-dragon-ebooks.com/s....It's YA and a bit more urban that District 12 in HG. In addition to being racist and militaristic, the regime comes down very hard on LGBT people, and the lead character is a Lesbian. If you're homophobic, give it a miss.
The Maze Runner trilogy by James Dashner is YA but interesting. Also, Unwind by Neal Shusterman is thought provoking. You might enjoy them as well.
Try Divergent
I recommend The Parable of the Sower, by Octavia Butler, along with the follow up, Parable of the Talents. Unfortunately, Ms. Butler died before being able to write the third book.
Don't forget the classics by Ursula K. LeGuin - The Lathe of Heaven and Left Hand of Darkness. Probably my favorite writer. Also, The Castle by Kafka. Though it is unfinished it is a precursor to movies like Brazil and based in the real bureaucratic dystopia of turn of the century Czechoslovakia.I also love David Almond's Skellig and Heaven Eyes. Though not strictly dystopic/utopic, elements remind me of Lois Lowry's The Giver.
I've noticed so many newer dystopian tales come in sets of three. What's with all current literary trend of writing dystopian trilogies? Is it just another cynical marketing ploy to entice readers into buying three books instead of one?
Bill wrote: "Jess wrote: "Ender's Game and Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep are a couple of my favorites that haven't been mentioned yet."Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? is more post-apocalyptic than ..."
Totally disagree. It's definitely dystopian and the two often go hand-in-hand.
Onyx and Crake is superb. Book of Dave by Will Self. The Chrysalids, John Wyndham. The Children of Men, forget who that is by....Lord of the Flies, I guess we can argue over whether that is dystopian or not!
I've seen Ursula K Le Guin mentioned, but not The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia - it's brilliant. Everything else I can think of has been mentioned already..
Okay, this isn't dystopian, but it's still a good read: Walden Two by BF Skinner.
This is another novel that may not be considered exactly Dystopian, but I think it's a fantastic recommendation for fans of the genre and I don't think it's been mentioned yet. Never Let Me Go by Kazuo Ishiguro
It doesn't deal much with the government, but it does take place in a creepy vision of the future and it does deal with mankind having difficulty adjusting its morals to the kind of technology it's been given access to.
Jenny wrote: "Totally disagree. It's definitely dystopian and the two often go hand-in-hand."No, it's not. It's missing the critical ingredient to be a dystopian fiction:
A dystopia is the idea of a society in a repressive and controlled state...
There is no repressive or controlling government in ...Electric Sheep. In fact, there's barely ANY government mentioned. Period.
People have more than enough room to do whatever they want. It's a major plot complication that Deckard has trouble finding the andys because they could be literally anywhere. That contrasts with repressive regimes in every dystopian novel, ever: continual surveillance is necessary in order to implement their draconian rules and laws.
Many dystopian novels do have post-apocalyptic origins, but it isn't mandatory (This Perfect Day is a good example). However, dystopia doesn't necessarily follow post-apocalypse (Swan Song and I Am Legend, for example).
Bill wrote: "Jenny wrote: "Totally disagree. It's definitely dystopian and the two often go hand-in-hand."No, it's not. It's missing the critical ingredient to be a dystopian fiction:
A dystopia is the idea ..."
I know wikipedia says that but it also says :
"Ideas and works about dystopian societies often explore the concept of humans abusing technology and humans individually and collectively coping, or not being able to properly cope with technology that has progressed far more rapidly than humanity's spiritual evolution." which completely applies to Do Androids Dream.
Even with that being said, you can't entirely trust wikipedia, and this is what the dictionary has to say:
dys·to·pi·a (ds-tp-)n.1. An imaginary place or state in which the condition of life is extremely bad, as from deprivation, oppression, or terror.
It seems to me that 'Dystopia' is not a very well defined word, and a lot more books fall into the category than you might think at first. I think that's kind of a good thing though.
Bill wrote: "Jenny wrote: "Totally disagree. It's definitely dystopian and the two often go hand-in-hand."No, it's not. It's missing the critical ingredient to be a dystopian fiction:
A dystopia is the idea ..."
That's not true. A dystopia by definition is not about state control but any environment where human beings find themselves dealing with deplorable conditions. That can be a totalitarian state just as easily as it can be a world where no rule of law exists and human beings exist in a state of barbarism.
That's the key factor there, bad living. Not class systems, state control or any other degree of social conventions. If those were the only qualifiers, then so much that is considered dystopian lit wouldn't qualify at all.
If you're going to have distinct genres, there needs to be a clearer distinction between post-apocalyptic and dystopia. Right now, there is no such clear distinction, so any arguments come down to semantics. This: "A dystopia by definition is not about state control but any environment where human beings find themselves dealing with deplorable conditions." is too broad of a definition. If this were the acceptable definition of dystopia, then every apocalyptic and post-apocalyptic book would also be a dystopia.
Matthew wrote: "A dystopia by definition is not about state control but any environment where human beings find themselves dealing with deplorable conditions."Holy crap, that's vague. I could make the case that your definition fits every book ever written.
Guy breaks up with girl, girl lives with a deplorable lack of love? *BOOM!* It's dystopian.
A town is taken over by vampires, and the last living humans live in a deplorable state of fear ('Salem's Lot)? *BOOM!!!* It's dystopian.
Frodo and Sam walk from one end of Middle-Earth to the other, chased by Nazgul and deprived of adequate food and shelter? Sounds deplorable to me, so *BOOM!!!!!* that's now dystopian, too.
See what I'm getting at? You can't just claim something is dystopian just because you want it to be, then warp the definition of an entire genre to force that definition where it doesn't belong.
Bill wrote: "Matthew wrote: "A dystopia by definition is not about state control but any environment where human beings find themselves dealing with deplorable conditions."Holy crap, that's vague. I could mak..."
That's a complete misreprenstation of what I said. I said dystopian refers to deplorable conditions, not breakups and vampires. And all I was attempting to do was expand things beyond the scope of a repressive state, which was what you were getting at.
But the literal definition has already been covered in some detail by Jess there so I won't repeat what she said. Needless to say, dystopian covers a wide range of things and the other key factor is how its arises out of the darker side of human nature or the things we put our faith in (aka. technology, social systems, religious institutions, etc).
Will wrote: "If you're going to have distinct genres, there needs to be a clearer distinction between post-apocalyptic and dystopia. Right now, there is no such clear distinction, so any arguments come down to ..."They often are classified as such, and yes, there is overlap and some lack of distinction. However, I was just trying to indicate that there's more to dystopia than just a repressive state. That's far too narrow a definition.
"That's far too narrow a definition."Isn't that the point of specific genres?
I think a better definition of a Dystopia would be: "An imaginary place or state in which the condition of life is extremely bad, as from deprivation, oppression, or terror... directly linked to a government or a ruling body of people over the masses"Something like that. Just living in oppressive or extreme conditions is way too broad. Genres should be narrowly defined.
My favourites: Oryx and Crake by Margaret Atwood
Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury (may he RIP)
We by Yevgeny Zamyatin
Some good ones, not my favourites but still good:
The Time Machine by HG Wells
Year Of The Flood by Margaret Atwood
I never really liked The Hunger Games trilogy. I read them and barely found them thought-provoking. I can see the whole 1% Capitol and 99% District populations parallel between them and us, and I see other things like the Occupy Movements and the District Rebellion, but other than that and a few historical war events, I don't find the story too compelling. We don't see how Snow and the Capitol rose to power, we don't see our society's flaws and how we let that happen, we just have to guess.
The other books I mention and some of the others mentioned in this discussion are not only thought provoking and a challenge to read, but they are also very clever. The way they drew the parallels between the authors world and our own is mindblowingly terrifying. I didn't see too much of that in any of The Hunger Games books...
www.nineteenposts.tumblr.com
Matthew wrote: "That's a complete misreprenstation of what I said. I said dystopian refers to deplorable conditions, not breakups and vampires. And all I was attempting to do was expand things beyond the scope of a repressive state, which was what you were getting at."No, it's not. It's an illustration of how absolutely vague your definition of "dystopian fiction" is. With it, I could label everything, even Dr. Suess (Sam-I-Am's deplorable lack of boundaries and insistence that everyone eat green eggs and ham could be considered "dystopian" by your definition).
By narrowing the definition, we get the true dystopias in fiction without having to wade through a bunch of non-genre novels, such as post-apocalyptic fiction.
Finally, I'd like to invite you to look up "list of dystopian novels" on Wikipedia (where the original definition used to start this conversation came from), and find Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep? Not there, is it? There is a Dick novel there (Flow My Tears, the Policeman Said), but not the one everyone is trying to force into the genre.
In regards to the definition of dystopian, I had always assumed the origin of the word was based on "Utopia" (the book, which I'll admit I haven't read), and the ensuing word "utopian," meaning a perfect or nearly perfect world. Dystopian, to me, is whatever is the opposite of utopian. (Dis or dys being the opposite of).
Utopian has more connotative than denotative meanings to me. The dictionary, however, defines utopian as "...impossibly ideal conditions especially of social organization." (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictio...). It also indicates there are many political aspects to utopia, one of which is "utopian socialism."
I imagine the origin of a dystopian novel was brought about to countermand the idea of governmentally controlled utopias actually working. Most dystopian novels I have read do have oppressive governments, but all of them claim to have the good of the people at heart or to be doing right. They project a utopian society, and even the reader believes it such at first. It is upon closer examination (usually into the means the government has used to create this wonderful pain-free/crime-free/poverty-free/disease-free/etc. society) that the reader finds out that the government isn't the answer to all these questions (pain, crime, etc.) and has, in fact, caused more problems than it solved.
Thus, to me, dystopian is impossibly deplorable conditions. Or more than that: a society or place that, superficially appears to be utopian, but upon closer examination is revealed to be deplorable.
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Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury.
Recently the unprecedented commercial success of Hunger Games trilogy by Suzanne Collins has create a renewed interest in dystopian literature.
Here's a few of my favorites:
1. Wool (Omnibus edition) by Hugh Howley- A novel where people live underground in a strictly regimented society. Get the omnibus edition because it contains all five of the novellas that comprise the Wool franchise. Recently, Howley released a sixth Wool related novella called "First Shift" which is a prequel book.
2. The Passage by Justin Cronin- As a rule I usually don't care for vampire or zombie apocalypse scenarios, but Cronin's a decent writer and avoids obvious. Those who like the Stephen King epic, The Stand, will probably like this one. It's the first of a trilogy of Passage books slated for release.
3. Binary Man by Jacob Prytherch - The author blends elements of sci fi, fantasy and horror elements together to create a dark, compelling dystopian tale.
Please share your recommendations of your favorite dystopian novels with other forum members. I'm always up for a good read about the grim future of mankind.