THE Group for Authors! discussion

I found this...http://www.bookreviewdirect.com

Has anybody ever used these people?

Jon Etheredge

I want REAL reviews. I want to know that person actually read my book....otherwise, what's the point?

Reviews are a paper chase that defines our industry. Given two writers, each with one book to their credit, and each book having 10 reviews (4.5 average on both), which one do you believe will sell more books -- the one WITH a Kirkus indie review or the one without?

Bard - I'm not keen on paying for a Big Mac, much less a potentially damaging professional review. But I fear the consequence of not getting that review will be my insolvency at the drive-up window.

Rosemary - I agree with you up to "Otherwise". The point is to gain name recognition, affordable at the indie level only when markets and marketeers give you widespread, free public exposure. They are unlikely to oblige us unless our work has already met with approval from a reputable source (such as Kirkus). Otherwise, their editors are risking their time on an unknown quantity.

My own collection of reviews is thin and gives the impression of me as a mediocre writer. I have given away hundreds of free titles in the hope of seeing the Review Response Ratio rise above 0.8%, but instead all I receive in return is a continuing object lesson in man's inhumanity. If there is a God, I pray that He smite 99.2% of my readers.

OK. I know that's not fair. I'll refactor that prayer to excuse the blind, infirm, insane, slow readers, recent immigrants, and victims of Spastic Mouse Finger Syndrome. That leaves 98.6%, a number that just so happens to be the normal body temp if you take out the percent sign and insert the "degrees" character. A coincidence? Ha! I laugh the Haughty Laugh at such a notion.

I hope this clears things up.

Jon Etheredge

well, the Kirkus review is a whole different thing from a readers review on amazon or someplace like that. Yes, I might be willing to pay for Kirkus but I won't buy a review from a regular reader...I have had emails that promised a 5 star review for a free? book and one guy sent me a pricing schedule for his. He wanted to be paid by the word like an editor for his review and it wasn't cheap either.

I ran across the following site that offers reviews for indie authors in exchange for free books. I haven't used them (yet) and am wondering if any one else has any experience with them:

http://hampton-networks.com/indie-rev...

Rosemary wrote: "I have had emails that promised a 5 star review for a free? book and one guy sent me a pricing schedule for his. He wanted to be paid by the word like an editor for his review and it wasn't cheap either. "

Does this brigand have a name?

Writers are frequently avid readers. Why not exchange books in a critique group or indie author group instead of paying total strangers? I suggested in an indie group in my area that people bring copies for notes or a review by any of the authors who have the time and would like the same courtesy for their next book. We meet monthly, although we have various members present each time. I believe getting to know people in person provides more incentive to follow through and give the feedback as promised. I will provide critique notes instead of a review when I believe a substantial rewrite is needed. I hope that I will never have to pay for a review.

I'll give you a buck to critique my new book when the ARC comes out in a couple of weeks. Seriously, I'm good for it.

I think patience is the key. I recently did a giveaway on LibraryThing and got some really useful reviews. Yes, to date, it is only a 10% return and maybe the other 90 won't get around to reading let alone reviewing it but it's a start...

Peri wrote: "Writers are frequently avid readers. Why not exchange books in a critique group or indie author group instead of paying total strangers? I suggested in an indie group in my area that people bring c..."

From my WeBook experience I'm not in hopes for any sort of review that I have to chase. I had thought of doing the give-away books for reviews, but that would be paying for them. I have a slush pile myself of writing friends from Twitter. I can't keep up with that much less the extras, so why should I expect the same out of a fellow writer with the same insane time schedule I have?

Not that this isn't a great idea. I'd love it. there are websites that supposedly cater to this need, but they are atrocious because of the amount of spam and badgering that one receives.

I'm with Marie-Anne in thinking that all those downloads are only sitting on someone's Kindle or Nook waiting for an "Oh yeah" moment. IF they read it I'd say about 15% of those who do will post a review, but what the percentage of readers to downloaders are? Who knows?

I'm at the point of trying to budget in the editing process, so paying for reviews is at the bottom of my list....

J., my last giveaway netted less than 500 downloads and two reviews (so far). I had a blog review, another blog's promise to review, a reciprocity promise (still waiting), and a simply Grand opinion from England - in spite of their trouble with English as a second language. Four people added the book to their "to read" shelf and one "reading". I was not impressed.

I believe the fault lies with slow readers who feel the need to finish book #11 in the "Unicorn Undead" series before switching plot lines. How long does it take to read a book, dammit?

I wonder whether freebies are the problem. Given two books -- one free and one you bought for 2.99 -- you're going to read the one you had to pay for first. That way you're protected in case you sit on your Kindle by accident. There's a long latin name for this psychological effect, but my wife just calls it C.A.S.H. (Cheap Ass Stupid Husband).

I can sympathize with the high cost of editing. My solution last time was to host live reads of the manuscript. Two friends come over, we have spaghetti, ten minutes of timed gossip, then the manuscripts and red pens come out and the editor(s) start reading out loud. Fifty pages can be covered in 1-2 hours, and when it's finished, I pay the reader $.50 a page.

The only time this has caused problems was when we were reading a ghost book I wrote. One of the side characters was revealed to be a ghost herself, and her true identity was hidden. My reader had an epiphany she had to share, so she blurted out her theory about the ghost's true identity. I told her she was wrong and showed her the clues I'd written. She got mad and stomped out of the room, telling me I didn't know what I was talking about.

I've sent free books to several bloggers for reviews--don't know if this has helped me since I've had no sales lately, but I still think it's good to get name recognition for both book and self...I'm about to do another kindle giveaway and I wonder...is it worth it? --I have no idea...just bumbling along without a clue trying to glean good ideas from those who have more experience than I.

Marie-Anne wrote: "I think patience is the key. I recently did a giveaway on LibraryThing and got some really useful reviews. Yes, to date, it is only a 10% return and maybe the other 90 won't get around to reading l..."
yes, patience is really key according to other authors I've spoken with...

Where can I buy some patience? Is it cheaper than advertising?

I'm trying something new. Three of my 200-or-so wanna-reads put one of my books on their "wish-list" shelves. Today, I wrote to them and told each of them I was making their wish come true...a Kindle book for pleasure reading only (no review requested). They were all VERY pleasantly surprised. One of them refused the offer and went right out and bought the book. She said she never accepted freebies.

Will this strategy bear fruit? How 'bout Fruit Loops?

Jon wrote: "I'm trying something new. Three of my 200-or-so wanna-reads put one of my books on their "wish-list" shelves. Today, I wrote to them and told each of them I was making their wish come true...a Ki..."
I like it--especially the person who went out and bought the book--reverse psychology?

We'll see. It was fun, though. I've discovered a side effect to this never ending quest for reviews and sales...I care more about whether a passive reader has fun reading my stuff than I do about how many stars I'll get or what the sales report shows. I had a total stranger run up to me at an artsie/craftie fair last year and ask if I was the guy who wrote "that funny book". He had been carrying a copy all day and the only thing he wanted was for me to sign it. It was really hot that day, without a breeze to take the edge off. There will never be another day quite like it.

Jon wrote: "We'll see. It was fun, though. I've discovered a side effect to this never ending quest for reviews and sales...I care more about whether a passive reader has fun reading my stuff than I do about..."
yes, that would make my day too!

I'll take a freebie, Jon. lol.

I think the average rate of downloads to reviews when you run a freebie with Amazon is 1000 to 1. Doing a review exchange with an author takes, on the average, four days. Gifting a book for a review to a website can take a month (if you get one). Waiting for reviews from sales? Good luck. I would like to publish with Smashwords, but does that mean I hustle for reviews with each and every ebook seller? I read in the Kindle Community that a new ebook seller is about to go live. Zola. Zolabooks.com. They are going to do away with customer reviews. Has anybody heard anything about them?

Hannah, check your messages.

Ken, no reviews? Does that mean we finally get to judge a book by its cover?

Do any of you use reviews when making a decision to purchase a book? Just wondered because I don't--I look inside and read a couple of paragraphs and check out what the book is about...just curious...

Wife said, "I just read the jacket synopsis, looking for magic words that speak to me as a woman. Also anything in the Oprah Book Club, a familiar author, or interesting characters."

What I heard..."Blah blah blah woman blah blah Oprah."

I like reading stuff that made it into all three major media -- traditional print, Cliff Notes and Classic Comics.

Nikki: I use reviews. I usually read the middle-of-the-road reviews first, because I figure those are more likely to be "off the street" readers who actually have something constructive to say. The highest & lowest-star reviewers often either don't say anything other than "it's real good" or "it's real bad" or they are totally inarticulate. I wouldn't get my reading recommendations from a site that didn't include reader reviews. I sometimes spend hours reading them; it's as entertaining as actually reading the book!

Personally, I don't read reviews. I like to decide to read a book for myself. I like Amazon's "Look Inside the Book" feature.

I read the jacket and I always look the book up on gr. If there is a lot of buzz about the book, I'll read it. I love reading books with really low reviews and ratings. I want to know if the book is really that bad and some of them are diamonds in the ruff.

@Hannah I love your attitude. It probably saves some of us from oblivion. Thank you!

I keep re-reading the book I thought I'd just finished. After the last edit, I drew five little stars on the cover sheet in red ink and went to bed. A week later, I'm reading a Two-Star Dog and pouring my soul back into the manuscript through my keyboard until, at last happy, I take out my red pen and draw five little stars on the first page. Then I print it out and go look for the Windex.

Stop cleaning and get back to what you do best Jon! *cough*Writing*cough*
@Viginia, right back at you. Low star books are not always a low star to everyone. Once other people realize this, they will extend their reading horizons. I quite enjoy saving the day.

K.A. wrote: "Where can I buy some patience? Is it cheaper than advertising?"
HA HA !!

Hi All, I'm coming late to this discussion but wanted to reply to the original question. Paid reviews lack credibility and suck up money writers could use better in many other ways. Just discussed this very issue in a post on Publishing Mosquitoes. Beware the deadly Anopheles scribus! http://barbararogan.com/blog/?p=138

I have endorsed Kirkus peripherally in this thread, but without any evidence to support that stance, I can't say they'd be a boon to my next book. Even though I saved up $425 to pay the fee, I'm conflicted.

I only see one path before me -- concentrate on making it the best book I have ever produced and drink 360 bottles of Amber Bock.

I vote for the beer over the review. You'll get more out of it.

Seriously, $425 is a LOT of money! You could read for a year on that money (if you have an ereader.) You could buy every book on writing you wanted. (My hands-down favorite: "Writing Fiction" by Janet Burroway.) You could take a writing course or learn to tango or fly to Brazil---halfway there, anyway. You could buy a minor politician. You could write your own review and pay yourself. The possibilities are endless.

Barbara wrote: "I vote for the beer over the review. You'll get more out of it."

I'm probably going to spend a large fraction of it on you.

Oh, now there's money well spent!

Sarcasm is unbecoming!

Michel wrote: "What sells your first book best is your second book. What sells your second book best is your third book.

Essentially, advertising a one-trick pony does make it's one trick more valuable.

This..."

I've heard this. Unfortunately, if your first book doesn't sell well, your publisher may be less interested in picking up the second...of course, this leaves you the option of self-pubbing the follow-ups.

K.A. wrote: "Michel wrote: "What sells your first book best is your second book. What sells your second book best is your third book.

Essentially, advertising a one-trick pony does make it's one trick more va..."

Or you can go to the middle ground, a good small pub. So you'll have some editorial overview, and cover help even though you'll probably be doing most of your own promo work. I agree on the "keep writing good books" formula.

word of mouth

Michel wrote: "What sells your first book best is your second book. What sells your second book best is your third book.

Essentially, advertising a one-trick pony does not make it's one trick more valuable.

..."

Thanks for making this point, Michel. It resonated with me, since I have my first novel out. I'm starting the second one today!

I read the comments and didn't see any that addressed the original question. Review Direct does not provide reviews. It announces your book to potential reviewers as well as libraries and bookstores. You pay for distribution of the announcement. Has anyone used Review Direct? I would like to know if their announcements led to any sales.

Word of mouth is the key. And you can't buy that. And someone tell me why Kirkus is so credible?

Jon wrote: "Reviews are a paper chase that defines our industry. Given two writers, each with one book to their credit, and each book having 10 reviews (4.5 average on both), which one do you believe will sel..."

Jon, loved this response.

Michel wrote: "What sells your first book best is your second book. What sells your second book best is your third book.

Essentially, advertising a one-trick pony does not make it's one trick more valuable.

..."

This is exactly correct. Spend your money on an editor and graphic designer.

I'll give my two cents, even though I already did.

1) Write a good book
2) Pay an editor. Shop around. I seriously got mine done for less than $200. She wasn't the best and I had to work harder to make it work, but she caught stuff I did not see.
3) Hire a cover artist. This matters...big time.
4) Get the blurb right. Use your writer friends for input and look at the best-selling books and look at their blurbs. It matters.