Children's Books discussion

Over in the Picture Book Club, Leslie brought up the excellent question:

"I am curious when you would give a book a 5 star or a 4.5 star? Or what it would take to get a 5 stars?"

She also asked for some examples of a five star book.

Given the enthusiastic response to her question, we thought it would be good to create a new thread to continue to discussion. Following are the original comments from members. You can find the original posts here: http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/8...

My own response to Leslie's question:
Well, for me, a five star book is one that is basically flawless. Usually it's one where I can't think of a thing that could have been done differently to make it any better and usually they produce a strong emotional reaction in me.

A 4.5 star book is pretty darn close, but maybe there were one or two little things that just kept it from being "perfect" in my book; and often this is totally subjective like maybe I didn't think the rhyme scheme was always perfect, or the illustration style just wasn't always my cup of tea. So, I'm not sure that with picture books it's anything that I could say "Well, if they had done X, Y or Z it would have been five stars" but in some cases, especially for novels, maybe I docked half a star for a plot point or character I felt was a bit weak.

From Trevor:
I don't really have a system for it. Basically, once I sit down at my computer I will go to rate it. Sometimes I know what that rating will be but once I hover over the 5 star button I rethink it and say "it isn't as good as this other book I rated 5 stars" and then I'll hit 4 stars. I rate a lot based on my emotions to a book, which is why sometimes a poorly written (in my opinion, of course) book or short story gets a 4 or even 5 star rating because it had that emotional connection.

From Jenny:
For me, I generally only rate a book with 5 stars if it really has an emotional connection, changes how I really think about something and/or is a book I know I will remember and think about for a long time to come. So I rate very few books with a 5 star rating. That's just me though. (And when I first joined Goodreads I tended to rate higher, so some of the first books I rated have higher ratings than I would give them now.) I will rate a book with 4 stars if it is well written and I especially enjoyed it. I give quite a lot of 4 stars. One of my friends says she only gives 5 stars if she thinks the book will have a real impact on her life--actually change her life in some way. I think everyone is a little different in how they rate books...and different books appeal to different readers. Even the same book can leave a different reaction with the same reader on different readings.

I remember a while back we read Martin's Big Words: The Life of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.in the picture book club. It is a book that I have rated 5 stars. I love it. In my opinion it has gorgeous illustrations, and a beautiful introduction to the life, and in particular the words of Martin Luther King Jr. I do remember that a couple of others brought up some criticisms of the book, and they had validity. I really thought about changing my rating...but ultimately decided not to because it is a book I have used multiple times in my classroom and it moves me (and often my students) to tears each time I read it. I think, for me, it has such power that I can overlook its few faults. But that is not often true. Few books have that depth of emotional impact or really impact me that deeply. But many are great books that I do give 4 stars.

From Cheryl in CC NV:
I'm enjoying the discussion about star ratings. *Just for me* I give five stars to books that were flawless or nearly so, and made an impact on me, and which I would widely recommend even to people who don't normally read that genre. Usually. I'm not super precise about it.

I rarely give 5 star ratings. For me, the book doesn't have to be flawless, but it has to be one that makes a deep connection to me. For older books, it has to be one that I remember and refer back to in my thinking over and over again. I try to use this criterion for newer books, too, but it is hard to tell if something will stick with you, so I am generally pretty conservative with the 5 star ratings. I have occasionally gone back and changed ratings, when books are either completely forgotten (rating goes down) or when books keep coming back into my mind (rating goes up). Books that I have re-read, especially if I have read them more than twice, will usually get 5 star ratings, too.

I'm a newbie and I can already see where my ratings will start to be less generous. If everything is a five,why rate at all. I strongly agree that the staying power of a story/book earns a higher rating

On the other hand, right now I'm only entering/commenting on things that I have strong attachments to.

I try to comment on each one, so that I have something to jog my memory, if kids (students) ask about it.

For me, I only give five stars when I absolutely love the book personally. There have been many books I thought were very good, but I just didn't "make the connection."

I find it quite hard to decide on ratings, especially for children's books. There are some books that I read when I was a child and remember loving, but when I go back and reread them as an adult, sometimes I am disappointed. I think I need a double rating system! I am also finding that I am becoming tougher with my ratings the more books I do. I have lots of five star books from when I first joined that I was probably a bit over-enthusiastic about. I don't like giving bad ratings though so I usually only put ratings on books I like.

Five star ratings for me seem to reflect the series that I loved reading, books that just resonated something in me or art work and storyline that complemented each other so well. It does get harder with rating the more books that I read.

eta: I also try include how well it fits into the genre that I am reading and whether it has staying power for me. Would I ever read this again?

Like many of you, I find I give out five stars less frequently the more books I rate. I tend to do quite a few four stars (thanks to GoodReads, I usually have a good idea that the books I pick up will be ones I really enjoy) and a few three stars. Rarely I will give out a two star and I think maybe only a couple of one stars. Basically, if I don't enjoy a book after giving it a fair start, I will stop reading so I don't feel fair enough rating books I don't like when I don't even finish them. (I do have a "stalled" shelf, though.)

I agree about the staying power being a strong indicator of a five star book. I find that, over the years, I forget some of the the tree and even four star books (well, as far as picture books; novels are more memorable) but the five stars are ones that really resonate and I can recall specific details, illustrations, and how the book made me feel. Many of the five star books are also ones that I own or want to add to my permanent collection. It's a good way to help determine what I am willing to spend money on ;-)

Good question!

I try to follow the Goodreads guidelines. If I personally thought it was amazing or if I really enjoyed it, then it gets five or four stars.

I am more lenient with my reviews than I used to be. If it is on the cusp, I try to grade it up. When I first started reviewing, it did not occur to me that authors would read the reviews. Now, with my kindle and so many independent authors, I would feel bad if I hurt an author's feelins over something trivial. I do try to be honest-I would not want somebody to spend their hard-earned money on a book that is no good.

5 star books knock me over, and I read 'em again and again and again. From David Copperfield to Lorna Doone to Ulysses to Gentlemen Prefer Blondes to Cold Comfort Farm to oh, I'm reminded it's time to read The Horse's Mouth by Joyce Cary again.

Kirei wrote: "Now, with my kindle and so many independent authors, I would feel bad if I hurt an author's feelins over something trivial."

That's a good point, Kirei! I, too, try to be sensitive, knowing authors might read the reviews (especially as an aspiring author myself, I feel I ought to "do unto others...") and if I didn't like a book I generally try to also point out something I *did* like about it, or be clear that the style just wasn't my personal cup of tea and that others might enjoy it more. Only in a few cases where I've felt the message of the book is really troublesome will I say more toward warning people away from the book.

This brings to mind something that I've been thinking about. I'm new here. I wrote a commentary about a popular nonfiction. I felt that the writing of a certain book was more all over the place than anything I'd ever read, but there was a fascination to the whole mess. In addition I had such a feeling that the book was exploitative. After writing comments, I came to think that I might be advancing the exploitation. I know..."a little deep for a Friday night."-Fools Rush In (oops, that's a movie)

I usually give 3 stars to a book that I liked and is useful, 4 stars to a book I really enjoyed, & 5 stars to books that I want to reread immediately.

2 stars are OK books but didn't really do anything for me and felt I wouldn't have missed if I hadn't read. 1 stars are ones I can't even finish.

5-star books are those that are life-changing. I rate very few books a 5. I give a lot of 4's. (I'm one of those people who, had she been a classroom teacher, would have given few A's.). Here are a few of my 5's: A Tree Grows in Brooklyn, The Giver, The Lonely Doll (picture book).

I also avoid rating books I don't finish, because usually there's a decent possibility it gets better later, or else there's nothing wrong with the book but it just wasn't a good fit for me. To me that feels like giving a restaurant a bad review because one appetizer was not as good as the menu portrayed it to be.

But I do write (usually brief) reviews for everything I read, even the dnfs. I'm all about the karma of helping other readers find good books and avoid bad books, just as you-all have done for me, here on goodreads.

I guess it must be fairly easy for a book to seem creative to me and to make a connection with me, because I give out quite a few 5 star ratings. But I agree also that books that I thought amazing as a child don't always hold up 4 decades later. Otoh, some do. For example I still love King of the Wind: The Story of the Godolphin Arabian and The Secret Garden and Thimble Summer.

In order to get a 5-star rating from me, I have to absolutely love the book. It has to knock my socks off. I can appreciate the quality of writing and illustration of a book and still not love it. So it really has to be amazing (like the Goodreads ratings suggest).

And to be honest, I've given 5-star ratings to some books that others have thought were terrible and/or poorly written (like some stories by Stephen King and the Harry Potter series.) So I based my rating more on my reaction to and connection with the story than a purely academic critique of the writing.

I am happy with the fact that my average ratings is just 3.34. That means I like most of the books I read (3 stars) and I really like many of them (4 stars). I don't give out too many 1 or 2-star ratings, because I get so many good book recommendations here and I try not to waste my time - too many books to read.

I have only given 5-star ratings to about 3% of the books I've rated. And although I don't make a special effort to keep it that way, that percentage has remained the same since I've joined Goodreads. I reserve 5 stars for the very best.

Reviewing does get easier as one does more of them. And you totally don't need to make it formal review or objective or anything. I'm just saying, I'm very glad for my own sake that I'm typing reactions to every book I read now that I'm on GR. :)

I like that simple criteria - "5 stars means I want to own my own copy."

Thanks everyone for responding to this thread. Now my question is how to I find these 5 stars on GR. I have noticed that when I do a search by member, most people are private and I would need to request to follow their reviews. If I just want to look at all 5 star books in picture is there a way to do that? I know on other search engines I can search by average rating, which is awesome. Can I do something like that for Children's/Picture books?

I often feel like/and have felt that I need a PHD in book searching, I just can't find books very easy. Even when I fo into my own library. I was shocked that my local library has no way of searching by how many pages in a book. This seems so simple and the children's librarian seemed to agree with me. The smaller number of pages is easier/younger the reader( in the children's section only). Or the larger the font size. But nope can't do that simple search.

Number of pages is a sort that can be done from a member's shelf, as is rating. But you're right, the database as a whole doesn't support those kinds of searches.

Best to spend more time here and follow the discussions, and to make friends with the people who are not private. I have lots and lots of picture-books on my shelf and I welcome followers and honest friends. If you do send me a friend request, I'll recommend you follow a friend of mine who is not in this group (I get lots of great rec's from her).

Getting engaged in book discussions here is one good way to find great books. Lots of public libraries do booklists that can be very helpful. You can also look at lists of award books like the Caldecott Award Winners or Honor books or something like the ALSC Notables each year. I find reading some select children's book blogs is another way for me to find great newer books.

I also echo Cheryl's excellent advice to find, follow or friend members here who read (and love) lots of picture books.

This thread just popped up on the front screen today, and I had not seen it before.
Anyway, rating books here is entirely a very subjective matter, based on each individual's reaction to a book.
I basically give out 5 star reviews to books that really tickle my funny bone (That Is Not a Good Idea!; McToad Mows Tiny Island; Howl's Moving Castle); books that really move me (The Lord of the Rings; The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe ); and excellent nonfiction (The Great White Shark Scientist; Crow Smarts: Inside the Brain of the World's Brightest Bird).
I may also give out 5 star ratings to books in series in which the writing style and characters maintain excellence from book to book (Alan Bradley's Flavia de Luce series; Aaron Becker's Journey trilogy; almost anything by P G Wodehouse.

I will sometimes give a book 4 stars and then if I'm still thinking about the book a few days later, go ahead and upgrade it to a 5. Every once in awhile I go through the books I've rated recently and correct my score based on whether or not the book has stuck with me. Only every once in a great while have I immediately given a book a 5 star rating.

Yes, the thread is old. I see that I've changed my response. Now I say:

I try to reserve five stars for books that have a more universal appeal. Once in awhile I'll give five stars to a book that I loved so much that I want to reread, or to a book that is one of the very best ever in a genre that I know something about. But usually if I can't also recommend it widely, I mark it down to four stars.

I am very particular in selecting my reading material. I pick out books that I expect to enjoy, and most of the time I make good choices. If I love the book and add it to my 'read again' list, it gets five stars.

For five stars, generally everything has to be spot on. For a work of fiction, both storyline and characterisation have to mesh and read fluently and engagingly (with no anachronisms for historical fiction, and not too many typos etc.). And for non fiction, the writing has to be both informative and engaging, with adequate sources and bibliographic details included. And for both fiction and non fiction picture books, I have to equally like text and images for five stars.

Harley wrote: "I am very particular in selecting my reading material. I pick out books that I expect to enjoy, and most of the time I make good choices. If I love the book and add it to my 'read again' list, it g..."

Many of my read again books are five stars, but I actually also have some four and even a very few three star books on my favourite shelf thst I would and do reread even though there are flaws that prevent five stars.

5 stars- The best book I've ever read. It's either a childhood favorite or something that I thought was so great and well-written. It's a book I want to discuss and recommend to everyone and read again.

4 stars- A few minor flaws, I didn't like the illustrations if a picture book, it was great but didn't blow me away

3 stars- I liked it but didn't love it. It wasn't memorable.

2 stars- It was bad but I liked parts of it or it wasn't the worst thing I've ever read but not good. Most or all of these are romantic novels aimed at adults.

Harley wrote: "I am very particular in selecting my reading material. I pick out books that I expect to enjoy, and most of the time I make good choices. If I love the book and add it to my 'read again' list, it g..."

I agree, Harley. Life is too short to read a bunch of books you just don't enjoy.

Beverly wrote: "Harley wrote: "I am very particular in selecting my reading material. I pick out books that I expect to enjoy, and most of the time I make good choices. If I love the book and add it to my 'read ag..."

I am much more picky after having received my university degrees, and that can sometimes be a total pain if I am trying to read just for pleasure.

I hear you, Gundula. As I've gained experience in careful reading and learned from others' perspectives, I find myself less forgiving of issues and sometimes less able to just plain enjoy a good story. It really makes being a supportive host of the Newbery Club a challenge!

Cheryl wrote: "I hear you, Gundula. As I've gained experience in careful reading and learned from others' perspectives, I find myself less forgiving of issues and sometimes less able to just plain enjoy a good st..."

I can so understand that! I do not ever regret getting my advanced literature degrees but having them does at times make me curmudgeonly as a reader.

Manybooks wrote: "
I can so understand that! I do not ever regret getting my advanced literature degrees but having them does at times make me curmudgeonly as a reader.

I'm so glad I'm not alone! I'm a historian and I just can't let go and read for fun if there are historical inaccuracies. This happens mostly in adult books or young adult books in which authors feel the need to dumb down the language. Luckily it doesn't happen too often in children's books.

QNPoohBear wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "
I can so understand that! I do not ever regret getting my advanced literature degrees but having them does at times make me curmudgeonly as a reader.

I'm so glad I'm not alone!..."

Yup, you are not alone. I hate anachronisms in particular or if in a story set say in the Middle Ages, the characters are conversing in modern slang.