Dieselpunk Reads discussion

Most genres have a set of classics that defined and invented (Or reinvented) the genre that all fans should read.

Does dieselpunk have those books yet? Or are they still waiting to be published? I've found a few books that look like classics, but are there more? What do you think?

I think that there are some great books that fall into the dieselpunk category. Just off the top of my head:
Any Lovecraft.
The Keep by F. Paul Wilson
Doc Sidhe by Aaron Allston

Some I haven't read yet:
Hard Magic by Larry Correia
The Troubleshooter by Bard Constantine
The Man in the High Castle by Philip K. Dick
Fatherland by Robert Harris
Shadow in the Mist by Brian Moreland
Tales of the First Occult War by Kevin Cooney
Fiends of the Rising Sun by David Bishop

You'll notice there's an absence of women authors. Pity! But then, I'm trying to remedy that. :D

So if you're interested, you could try my novel, The City Darkens, which I'm releasing as a serial. And you can read the first part, Myadar's Snare, for free. Go here to download it (I have Kindle, Nook, and PDF formats available): http://sophia-martin.blogspot.com/p/f...

Okay, thanks.

I've added some books to the group's bookshelf, including a couple of mine. I hope everyone else will, too, so we have a resource!

Cool.

I don't know if this is the right place to ask this, but I read an article on Tvtropes.com which claimed that the play R.U.R. by Karel Čapek was similar to dieselpunk, or connected to it in some way. So I read the play and it is interesting, but I don't really see what makes it more dieselpunk than a lot of other science fiction from that era. Has anybody here read it and figured out why it should be connected to dieselpunk? Is it maybe a classic that has helped define the genre?

Lovecraft and Man in the High Castle are diesel punk? Cool, I will need to re-think my definition of the genre

Hi Hákon,
I haven't read the play but I did have a look at the description. First of all, it looks to me like the new Battlestar Galactica may be based on it! I think it made the dieselpunk list because it's supposedly the first sci fi story to introduce robots. Robots are a big part of dieselpunk, from what I've seen. As the work that apparently coined the word "robot," it stands out from similar works of its time. Although I would probably put most of those works featuring robots in a category encompassing the roots of dieselpunk anyway. Metropolis, Fritz Lang's movie, being a great example!

Hákon on RUR

I've read the play, and I have some more info on the subject if you are interested...

The word 'Robot' actually comes from the Czech word 'Robota' which means something more like "serf labor". The play R.U.R. (Rossum's Universal Robots) introduced the term 'Robot' to popular culture in Prague in 1921. However, The servants in the play weren't actually mechanical men, they were artificial men made from a chemical process.

http://davidszondy.com/future/robot/R...

In 1919 Harry Houdini battled a robot in "the master mystery", although, it was only referred to as an "Automation".

http://www.bigredhair.com/boilerplate...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4Evnv...

Another robot appeared in the 1921 Italian movie, "L'uomo meccanico", but the creation was only called "the mechanical man".

http://www.catalogovegetti.com/catalo...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcqZM8...

Then the robot Sophia mentioned, appeared in the 1927 movie, Metropolis, However, the term robot wasn't used yet. The character was simply called the "Machine Man", although since then, we've come to know her as Maria.

https://d2nh4f9cbhlobh.cloudfront.net...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4rI__...

Then, in 1935, the Soviet movie, "Robots of Ripley" (aka The Death of Sensation) was released.

https://s-media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/...
(There used to be a clip from it on youtube, but apparently it's been removed.)

It was a retelling of Rossum's Universal Robots. In his version the artificial men were updated with Mechanical Men, representing Robots as we think of them today.

If you're a dieselpunk and you haven't seen "Robots of Ripley", you might want to check it out. Fans of Fantasia's Sorcerers Apprentice may see an interesting parallel.

I believe "Robots of Ripley" is where Robots meanings were bridged, but it's possible that one of the iterations of the play adapted for other countries introduced a more mechanical looking costume. Tome has this image posted on dieselpunks.org...

http://www.dieselpunks.org/photo/rur-...

I have no information on a RUR movie in 1923, but the image might be a stage prop from a live performance or a promotional sculpture.

Ok, now to get to your question, Hákon…

I don't know that I would call the original script I read for R.U.R., dieselpunk. However, I do think dieslepunks will enjoy the soviet movie it spawned.

I believe there are mainly 3 ways people attempt to classify dieselpunk and the edges are blurred in all 3.

1 - The thing has elements of the diesel era, but has been spliced with a modern anachronism.
(Iron Sky, electro swing)
2 - The thing has elements of the diesel era, pays homage to the diesel era, but was made at a later date.
(sky captain, raiders of the lost ark, the rocketeer)
3 - The inverted take. It's not what is dieselpunk, but who are dieselpunks. Basically, people who enjoy the stuff from the diesel era are dieselpunks.
(anyone reading this post who enjoys movie serials, pulp magazine, noir, WPA posters, OTR, swing, diesel era fashion, etc)

Out of curiosity I looked at the TVTrope article you referenced...

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php...

I found the "R.U.R." reference under the "Period works" button and compared it to the others. I would say TVTropes is trying to identify 'root sources of dieselpunk inspiration", but I suspect this article is a work in progress.

Ok, one final note about the original R.U.R. play. It’s actually public domain if anyone wants to judge for themselves. This version was translated in 2013, so it might feel more modern then the one I read.

http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/c/capek...

Enjoy

John

Many thanks, people, particularly to John for his comprehensive and informative comment. It's an article in itself.

I see Dieselpunk as veering somewhat from the often theoretical science of SF towards engineering, an applied science. When I first began writing my YA Dieselpunk trilogy it was neither YA nor a trilogy (I'm far from alone there!) and I called it EF or Engineering Fiction rather than SF. Even though my trilogy happens to be set centuries in the future on a colony planet its technology is largely 1930s Earth, science we can get our hands on as it were.

We still don't have rocket cars or flying cars but we do have diesel cars.

JTS

Thanks Sophia and John for your answers.

I think you are right John, that with the list Period works in the article on TVTrope the author is trying identify root sources of dieselpunk inspiration. When I read R.U.R. I somehow missed how that would be more important inspiration than other works of the era, but now I understand why. And I'm going to try to find Robots of Ripley, I think it would be interesting to see it.

On the other hand I got it straight away with Metropolis. The set design, the futuristic vision of the giant city and the giant machines look like something that could inspire modern Dieselpunk. In fact I think that the city in Metropolis is in parts the inspiration behind what I am writing now, that and film noir.

Hákon on Ripley

Based on what i know of your tastes, I suspect you will enjoy "Robots of Ripley", and it will fuel your imagination. I picked up the DVD from the Sinister Cinema website, when they released it...

http://store.sinistercinema.com/prost...

Apparently, SC sells it on amazon now, for a lower price...

http://www.amazon.com/Robots-Ripley-S...

If you decide to get a copy, let me know what you think.

-

Since you are fan of the architecture of Metropolis, you might want to do a google image search for the work of "Hugh Ferris". If you're not familiar him, you are in for a treat...

https://www.google.com/search?q=hugh+...

Enjoy

John

Hákon wrote: "In fact I think that the city in Metropolis is in parts the inspiration behind what I am writing now, that and film noir."

Me too! The setting of Metropolis as well as the robots are a big influence on my novel, The City Darkens.

Both 'METROPOLIS' and Hugh Ferris helped to inspire my WIP too. One of my most treasured books is a facsimile edition of 'THE METROPOLIS OF TOMORROW'.
JTS
The Metropolis of Tomorrow

J.T. on METROPOLIS and Hugh Ferris

you might be interested in this book too...

http://www.amazon.com/Film-Architectu...

John wrote: "you might be interested in this book too...

http://www.amazon.com/Film-Architectu..."

Just wishlisted it on Amazon.

Pricey, as are Ferris' books too I see, but maybe Santa Claus will bring me one if I'm good!
Thanks all. JTS

J.T. on Film Architecture price and santa

out of curiosity, i did an abebooks search. i found a couple that shave off about $10 from the lowest amazon price. maybe point santa here...

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Searc...

John wrote: "J.T. on Film Architecture price and santa

out of curiosity, i did an abebooks search. i found a couple that shave off about $10 from the lowest amazon price. maybe point santa here...

http://www...."

Thanks, John! I'll include the link in my letter to the North Pole.
JTS

Sophia and J.T. it's interesting to hear that Metropolis has been a inspiration to you too. I had actually never heard of Hugh Ferris before, but after googling him I see that his work looks impressive.

I'm wondering if WE by Yevgeny Zamyatin would classify as dieselpunk? Probably.

A very dieselpunk movie is BRAZIL

While a video game and not a novel, the "BioShock" series drips pure dieselpunk: retro-futurism, grungy deco, neon everything. The third installment "BioShock Infinite" is more steampunk, as it's set in 1912, but the DLC "Burial At Sea" takes the "Infinite" characters back to a 40s/50s aesthetic through a quantum mechanics-based form of time travel.


There was a really great tie-in novel, however, called BioShock: Rapture which was a surprisingly good read. I'd never really bought into books based on video games, but this novel was thorough, detailed, and very dieselpunk. I'd highly recommend.

The game's aesthetic was modeled after the Objectivism philosophy found in Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged, which some have called the first dieselpunk classic, inasmuch as it deals with an alternate history, some retro-futurism, dystopian government, etc. So I'd definitely throw that into the running.

Mike Mignola's "Hellboy" comic series is also a great mashup of the Nazi occultism side of dieselpunk and Lovecraftian supernatural horror.

While a little dated and cheesy, "Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow" is another purely pulp/dieselpunk-styled movie.

I recently put out a dieselpunk novel as well (A Fistful of Nothing: A Dieselpunk Noir Novel), which blends a "Metropolis" meets "BioShock" setting with aspects of film noir, James Ellroy's hard-boiled 1940s/50s Hollywood, and the pulp writings of Dashiell Hammett and Raymond Chandler. While I'm certainly not advocating it as a classic of the genre, I'd love to hear what fellow dieselpunk lovers like yourselves think about it.

Additionally, most everything by H.G. Wells is often considered dieselpunk. "The Rocketeer" comic and movie are both fairly good examples as well. I would put forward any "The Shadow" and "The Spirit" stories as having dieselpunk elements too. In fact, I'd go so far as to say most all pulp fiction does. I've also heard cases made about "Indiana Jones" being a dieselpunk film series of sorts.

Oh, I definitely would put the Indiana Jones movies in there, though I'd add the caveat that those movies all can be used as poster-children for orientalism.

I had an interesting conversation a while back in the comments to a couple of blog posts I made regarding orientalism and dieselpunk. As a writer of dieselpunk/decopunk and a fan of all those old stories, I struggle with how to incorporate some of the aspects of the old stories without trending on the minefield of orientalism.

If you're curious about the blog posts, go here:
http://sophia-martin.blogspot.com/201...

and here:
http://sophia-martin.blogspot.com/201...

That sounds fascinating, Sophia -- I'll definitely give 'em a read!

I bought a copy of P.K. Dick's THE MAN IN THE HIGH CASTLE yesterday. I've put it on my huge shelf of books that are partly read or which I intend to read.

I'm hosting an excerpt from fellow dieselpunk author John Paul Catton
The hideous miasma rolled along the shattered landscape. The Germans tried to outrun it, but they were too slow.

This month's edition of Perihelion Science Fiction Magazine features my article.."Punk Fiction: Back to the Future": www.perihelionsf.com/1410/article_1.htm

The aesthetics of punk sci-fi...."If you've ever seen a book jacket with a hero and/or heroine dressed in Victorian garb, festooned in leather accessories, wearing round brass aviator goggles, standing on the deck of a steam-driven airship holding an octopus as a pet, and there are lots of clockwork gears in the background, then you’ve probably come across the visually quirky genre of Steampunk."

Defining punk fiction and Retrofuturism... "Melodramas inside a mélange; a melding of genres together like the ceaseless hammering of wrought iron in a forge... As a Dieselpunk author who is constantly asked “what is punk fiction?” I think it’s time to organize my neurons around some foundational principles that put all this punkishness into some kind of cosmic order. Like an intergalactic peace treaty between the rulers of classic science fiction and the mutants... Retro-futurism allows the writer to meld various elements of science fiction together, often blended within an alternative set of historical events, or set in a future world with anachronistic social outlooks typical of that bygone era."

How can you tell if a novel is a work of punk fiction? I answer that with a concept called the 'Spectrum of the Fantastic'. Alternative history, time travel, space opera and Retrofuturism are various settings on the 'dial of imagination' like turning the knob on a stove.

I've been trying to pinpoint what is it in the dieselpunk aesthetic that appeals to me. I plan to start a new novel in November (NaNoWriMo!) and I haven't even got a setting yet. I know that fundamentally, it's got to have retrofuturism. I'm not sure it has to be the same period (1920s-1940s) that draws me to dieselpunk, though. Anyone see the second Captain America movie? I was sad it wasn't dieselpunk like the first, but I really did dig the scene with the old 70s computers and Dr. Zola as the ghost in the machine. It was like retrofuturistic cyberpunk! Still, I'm not sure I could do anything with that, not being well-versed in how computers work, myself. I think I like my own stories to draw on things like Lang's Metropolis because the sci fi was really more fantasy, and you don't need to really know how those robots would work in RL.

I love space opera. Might have to figure something out there. Any recommendations for reading to get myself in the head space?

Charles wrote: "This month's edition of Perihelion Science Fiction Magazine features my article.."Punk Fiction: Back to the Future": www.perihelionsf.com/1410/article_1.htm

The aesthetics of punk sci-fi...."If yo..."

Verr interesting! Your 1920 watershed makes WW1 Steampunk territory. You're not alone in that, but I'm inclined to see WW1 as Dieselpunk in Scott Westerfeld's 'LEVIATHAN ' trilogy, for example, where Diesel engines are one of the McGuffins. Since WW1 was both the death of an old era and the birth of a new one, both views can be correct.

JTS

Sophia wrote: "I've been trying to pinpoint what is it in the dieselpunk aesthetic that appeals to me. I plan to start a new novel in November (NaNoWriMo!) and I haven't even got a setting yet. I know that fundam..."

If you want to get in the mood for writing dieselpunk, read Bard Constantine's Troubleshooter series. It's a gangster story set in the future with a distinct 1930's vibe. 'The City Darkens' by Sophia Martin is another one to try.

I'd recommend my own but that would not be 'de rigeur'.

The problem we have is that there are not a lot of dieselpunk works out there. There are two lists on Goodreads if you search listopia under Dieselpunk.

J.T. wrote: "Charles wrote: "This month's edition of Perihelion Science Fiction Magazine features my article.."Punk Fiction: Back to the Future": www.perihelionsf.com/1410/article_1.htm

The aesthetics of punk ..."

Those that take these things seriously (someone did his PhD in Steampunk) use the end of WW1 as the dividing line between Steampunk & Dieselpunk. There's no question that Scott Westerfeld's Leviathan straddles both. In some corners, it's Steampunk; in others Diesel. I don't think it matters much. The concept of Retrofuturism in the Leviathan series helps define this expansion of the science fiction & fantasy genres.

Sophia wrote: "I've been trying to pinpoint what is it in the dieselpunk aesthetic that appeals to me. I plan to start a new novel in November (NaNoWriMo!) and I haven't even got a setting yet. I know that fundam..."

I agree. I was very disappointed that 'Captain America: The Winter Soldier' was set in modern times. I think they abandoned the opportunity to explore his WW2 heroics far too soon. The crash landing in Greenland and the subsequent 'suspended animation' set up the sequel where he was revived. But what a waste! It would have been great to see him battle the Red Skull again and tap into the retro-vibe of the 1940s. That's what makes stories unique. But I guess the corporate machine that is now Marvel wants to crank out Avenger movies set in our era and they needed to explain how Captain America could be a part of that. Pity.

Charles wrote: " 'The City Darkens' by Sophia Martin is another one to try."

I'm so tickled you recommended my own novel to me! :)
Thanks, it was an ego boost to read that.

Sophia wrote: "Charles wrote: " 'The City Darkens' by Sophia Martin is another one to try."

I'm so tickled you recommended my own novel to me! :)
Thanks, it was an ego boost to read that."

You sound like a perfect candidate for the Alvarium Experiment. Well, maybe round two as I know you have other plans in January. But if you're writing in November, perhaps you can't resist?

Okay, now I'm googling the Alvarium Experiment.

Google was no help at all. What is the Alvarium Experiment?

I think I've been trying to figure out what exactly fits under the heading of dieselpunk ever since I came across this genre for the first time, partially because I'm trying to figure out if I'm writing dieselpunk myself, but I can't come up with a definite answer.

For a long time I thought it was just alternative history set in 1920-1950 with a punk twist, but then I came across a book called The Singer by Jessica Law which is set in 2010. That is well outside the usual timeframe of dieselpunk, but the way she sets up her world it makes perfect sense to me to classify it as dieselpunk.

The age of steam has passed, but there are still some steampunkers trying to hang on to that technology. The age of diesel has arrived, and is the dominant technology of the era of the story. At the end one sees that electricity is just around the corner. Maybe I'm wrong in calling that dieselpunk, but I feel it is despite being set outside the usual timeframe. What do you think?

Dieselpunk is an unusual 'punk' in being named after a person, who unveiled his engine in 1892 and died in 1913. I'm inclined to follow Dieselpunk Reads' founder Lindsay and others in seeing internal versus external combustion as the technological watershed, hence my view of WW1 as a transition period. I also see Steampunk as more Victorian than Edwardian, in British terms, though hardly any example of Steampunk's greatest icon, the airship, flew during Victoria's life. Also ironically, nearly all airships had diesel or gasoline engines.

Hakon raises interesting points too, though electrical power long predates all internal combustion. A 2010 set Dieselpunk story is quite possible. My own trilogy is defintely Dieselpunk, though set centuries in the future on a colony planet whose inhabitants have recreated and maintained 1930s Earth technology and culture amid the enigmatic artefacts of a lost alien civilisation.

Alvarium? A beehive experiment? I await Charle's explanation.

JTS

On the Diesel Powered Podcast they aired a very interesting discussion about what is dieselpunk and what's not. Interestingly enough, notbody cared for the internal conbustion used int he story, and personally I tendo to side with this. A genre is seldom characterised by this kind of technicalities, in my opinion. What characterise a genre is the easthetic and the phylosophy that goes at its roots.
Well, you know, I'm new to dieselpunk, but I'm a very old fantasy reader/writer and I went trhough a lot of discussion onthis point.

On the Diesel Powered Podcast, on the one side, it was argued that diesel is any story, from any period, that has a 1920s-1950s aesthetics (diesel) and some form of fantastic elements (punk).
On the other side it was reasoned that the fantastic element isn't all that important and the definite element is that the story is in some way challanging on a social/cultural level (this would be the punk in this context).

Personally, I find both definitions interesting and pertinent and I stil can't decide who I'm siding with.

Let me see whether I can find the episode.
http://dieselpoweredpodcast.wordpress...

Charles A Cornell’s Definition of Dieselpunk:
The retro-futuristic themes and aesthetics reflecting the politics, society, culture and technology from the 1920s to 1940s, expressed in creative form in order to project to others the future as those in this past era might have seen it, or to convey to others how this era’s vibe would look like in a future imaginary world.

The explanation on how I came up with this definition and my opinion on how to create this aesthetic in a story in order for it to be considered Dieselpunk are in this article on my website:
http://www.charlesacornell.com/what-i...

I further expound on these ideas in this month's edition of Perihelion Science Fiction Magazine: www.perihelionsf.com/1410/article_1.htm

These are my own opinions. I find this definition helps me 'frame up' what I need to include in my stories to create the 'punk' feel.

The bottom line is that 'aesthetics' are more important than 'devices'. You can have a successful Dieselpunk story without mentioning the word, diesel at all. The key enabler is the use of the aesthetics of the period in question, whether it is the era of steam, diesel or atom for example. Bard Constantine does this in his Dieselpunk retrofuturistic crime noir series, The Troubleshooter. He uses anachronistic vocabulary to enhance the aesthetic. In fact, the main device he uses is not a diesel engine (I don't think he even used the word diesel once) but is the main character's revolver which he refers to as 'The Broad' which is in line with the gangster vibe.

And the story doesn't have to be set in the past. Troubleshooter is a future society. If you want to see a visualization of how a future world can have the vibe (ie the 'look and feel') of the past then the video clip in this blogpost is a perfect demonstration of WW2-based Dieselpunk set in a future dystopia: http://www.charlesacornell.com/punk-f...

I like to visualize things. On Pinterest I've set up a board to collect images from 1940s New York to give me inspiration as I write my next novel. I don't know how to capture the link to it, just search my name if you're interested in it. It includes fashion, architecture, cars and Art Deco imagery of all kinds.

Charles

The Alvarium Experiment is a work in process that is gaining some traction with a group of authors who are experimenting with a unique way to present short fiction. If all goes well, the first publications from the consortium will be in January 2015. The full roster of authors, both traditionally and self-published, is being filled now. There will be a number of Dieselpunk writers in the mix although the first story line is traditional science fiction.

Many thanks for your explanations, Charles.

A key difference between external (steam/coal) and internal (gasoline/diesel) combustion machines is that the steam engines (mainly trains and ships) were usually owned by corporations or governments, while the gas engines (mainly cars and trucks) were more often owned by individuals. Public vs private. Nineteenth vs Twentieth Century. Airplanes are the main exception.

Mobility, literal and social, is more common in Dieselpunk and in its real life background than in Steampunk, whose most iconic transportation device, the steam-powered private airship, never existed in the real world.

JTS

Charles, I've had your articles on my TBR list for some time now. I'll try to read them as soon as I can... but time is always such a tyrant :-(

I see what you say in this short exposition, but I'm not sure aesthetics is enough to characterise a dieselpunk story.
For example, I watched 'The Wizard of Oz' because its diesel aesthetics attracted me, but after seeing it, I'd be very reluctant to call it a dieselpunk story. It's just a fantasy story (and not even a good one, in my opinion) with a lot of diesel ideas thrown in it. Is this enough to make it a dieselpunk story?

I always remember Tolkien wrote that it isn't enough to have elves and dragons and magic in a story to call it 'fantasy'. The fantasy quolity comes from the world itself where the story is set. He said that magic has to perspire out of the earth, it has to pervad everything, it has to be so integral to the story that you wouldn't be able to tell that story if you take out the magic element. Then you can call a story 'fantasy story'.
If you take out the dieselpunk element from the film 'The Wizard of Oz', you woudl still have the same story, but in a differnet setting. This means (in my opinion) that the diesel element isn't integral tot he idea and so the story itself isn't dieselpunk.

I suppose I apply Tolkien's theory abotu fantasy to dieselpunk too. It isn't enough for me to have the right aesthetics and some automatons and some diesel powered devise in it. It has to be a more profound quality.
What that quality is, I still don't know :-)
But as I mentioned, the definition of 'speculative elements' or 'subversive elements' as integral to the 'punk' side of it is very fascinating one for me :-)

I wouldn't consider Wizard of Oz to be dieselpunk. In addition, I don't think you can take any work from a past era and re-label it 'whatever'-punk. The original Jules Verne stories are not steampunk. They were that era's futuristic science fiction. The purpose of punk fiction in my mind is to be retrofuturistic. In other words, if I imagined I was an author in that period how would I see the future from their perspective? Authors that wrote in that era were being futuristic. Authors in our era looking back and then imagining what authors in that era might think of the future are being retrofuturistic. Does that make sense?

Also, retrofuturism can be applied to the present or future if the story reaches back for the themes and aesthetics of the past. For example, the movie 'Iron Sky' about Nazis on the moon imagines a near future where a Nazi colony on the moon invades earth. The Nazis are 'stuck' in an extrapolation of their 1940s aesthetics. That's what makes it retrofuturistic.

I don't know what is retrofuturistic about Wizard of Oz?

>Authors in our era looking back and then imagining what authors in that era might think of the future are being retrofuturistic. Does that make sense?

It does make sense to me.
But is dieselpunk necessarily retrofuturistic?
I read stories in the Broken Time Blues that aren't necessarily retrofuturistic. One of my favourite, Button Up Your Overcoat by Barbara Krasnoff, doesn't have any retrofuturistic element, as far as I can see. It set in the 1930s, it depicts the 1930s as they were, and the only dieselpunk element it has is the hint that one of the main characters comes from the future.
So it does have the 'punk' element, both if you consider it just fantasy or subversive too, and it has the setting (not just the asthetics), but it is in no way retrofuturistic.

And how would you consider Ari Marmell's stories? I have no problem considering them dieselpunk, but I'd have a couple issues considering them retrofuturistic.

I think the retrofuturistic definition you suggest sets nicely with the more SF incarnation of the genre, but it doesn't really fit to the more fantasy side of dieselpunk.

Jazzfeathers wrote: ">I think the retrofuturistic definition you suggest sets nicely with the more SF incarnation of the genre, but it doesn't really fit to the more fantasy side of dieselpunk. "

I think I agree with that. I listened to The Gearheart by Alex White a while back, and I would call that dieselpunk, even though it has more fantasy elements than retrofuturistic ones. I don't know about the stories in Broken Time Blues: Fantastic Tales In The Roaring '20s because I haven't read them yet. They are on my ever increasing TBR list.

There has to be some twist on the real period so a work can stand apart from historical works as dieselpunk, or steampunk. The exact place where the departures from the historical become so little that the work is really historical is of course debatable, but for myself I just can't pin point that place yet completely.

J.T. wrote: "Hakon raises interesting points too, though electrical power long predates all internal combustion. A 2010 set Dieselpunk story is quite possible. My own trilogy is defintely Dieselpunk, though set centuries in the future on a colony planet whose inhabitants have recreated and maintained 1930s Earth technology and culture amid the enigmatic artefacts of a lost alien civilisation."

Yes, I know electricity predates internal combustion. There where even some electric cars made early on in the history of cars, so it wasn't all about internal combustion at the beginning. It was just the way Jessica Law set up her story. One gets the feeling that electricity will take over from diesel soon. But I suppose The Singer is probably always going to be a borderline case and not just because of the time it takes place.

From the sound of it, your trilogy is dieselpunk, and I would really like to read it when it's published. It sounds like it could be a fun adventure story.

Interesting, Hakon. Various forms of fuel, power and energy storage seem fairly evenly matched at the moment. It's possible neither electricity nor any other single system may predominate in the future in the way oil predominated until now.

Fun and adventure are indeed the focus of my trilogy. My young protagonist Jimmy does not have the conflicted lineage and endangered childhood of so many fantasy/SF protagonists. He does get a powerful artifact from his grandfather, an old revolutionary leader, but it not as vital as the LOTR's Ring Of Power, for example, and Jimmy is not Frodo. What Jimmy wants is simply fun and adventure, and he gets even more of both than he expected, but also great danger.

While I've never thought of 'The Wizard Of Oz' as Dieselpunk, the Kansas framing story is somewhat Steampunkish, and the Emerald City has an Art Deco look.

JTS

Hey, but rerally none of you knows about the film of the Wisard of Oz?

This is a sequence
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKpFO...