The Master and Margarita by Mikhail Bulgakov discussion

This thread is for discussion of The Master and Margarita, Part One, Chapters 10-18.

Just a general comment on part 1 overall: I struggled a bit with most of this part of the novel. I wasn't really finding it compelling (though I did quite like the first three chapters, as well as "Enter the Hero" and "The Execution"). Perhaps it was the myriad of annoying literati and their farcical comeuppances at the hands of the demonic entourage...farce really isn't my favourite form of comedy and while I know the variety of characters getting their just deserts and being given an overview of many of the ridiculous elements of Soviet society on display are important I just felt a lack of continuity in these chapters.

So far I'm quite liking where part 2 is heading though. Seems like things are starting to gel.

Terry, I definitely saw a big shift in tone between part 1 and part 2, so I think you'll continue to enjoy the rest of the book.

Farcical scenes do make up a significant part of the first part of TM&M. I'm wondering about everyone's responses to them. What worked for you? What didn't? How do you understand those scenes in the context of the other, non-farcical elements in the novel?

Another avenue for discussion in is the appearance of The Master in chapter 13. Any thoughts or reactions to his grand entrance? I also think it's interesting to compare The Master and Ivan at this stage in the novel - similarities, differences, functions in the novel, etc.

I loved the chapter with the 'magic show'...the money showering over the audience, the women going on stage and getting new clothes and shoes....so strange and unnerving. The imagery was so alive....maybe because I was reading it around midnight last night but gosh, it was creepy....and when the clothes disappeared on the women later on... how easy it is for people to be dazzled by a quick fix, how seamlessly Woland and co. weaved their 'magic' over people, blinding them. The clothes and money disappearing = empty promises...false government. Gosh, I loved it.

Kris wrote: "Another avenue for discussion in is the appearance of The Master in chapter 13. Any thoughts or reactions to his grand entrance? I also think it's interesting to compare The Master and Ivan at this stage in the novel - similarities, differences, functions in the novel, etc."

A small thought (haven't had my coffee yet so not fully functioning), I really loved the description of the master meeting Margarita. The yellow flowers - she said she hated them and threw them on the street saying she preferred roses (unhappy with her life/husband). Later in their little room they have roses.

The Master is interesting. He seems to display elements of power (he is very self-possessed and knowledgeable as opposed to Ivan's almost manic temperament and complete lack of understanding), but he also seems strangely passive at the same time.

I like him, but I'm not quite sure why.

@Mary Didn't the Master say he hated the yellow flowers and preferred roses?

Terry wrote: "@Mary Didn't the Master say he hated the yellow flowers and preferred roses?"

I don't have my book with me. I thought Margarita said she hated them and threw them away? You could be right, I read this very late last night. (this means I will re-read tonight)

Mary wrote: "Terry wrote: "@Mary Didn't the Master say he hated the yellow flowers and preferred roses?"

I don't have my book with me. I thought Margarita said she hated them and threw them away? You could ..."

No, Terry is right -- the Master said he hated them, so she threw them away, and he replied to her question about his preference later - said red roses.

Roses keep reappearing throughout TM&M,as well as a lot of color symbolism - red, yellow, etc.

Mary wrote: "I loved the chapter with the 'magic show'...the money showering over the audience, the women going on stage and getting new clothes and shoes....so strange and unnerving. The imagery was so alive....maybe because I was reading it around midnight last night but gosh, it was creepy....and when the clothes disappeared on the women later on... how easy it is for people to be dazzled by a quick fix, how seamlessly Woland and co. weaved their 'magic' over people, blinding them. The clothes and money disappearing = empty promises...false government. Gosh, I loved it.

Such a wonderful description, Mary -

Kris wrote: "No, Terry is right -- the Master said he hated them, so she threw them away, and he replied to her question about his preference later - said red roses. "

see, it's going to take me forever to read/re-read this...I read this too late last night and this morning it's like this beautiful fuzzy dream

But you did remember - yellow bad, red roses good! :)

Reading TM&M in the middle of the night, falling asleep then trying to recall it in the morning is kind of cool, it's like coming off a trip...

Mary wrote: "Reading TM&M in the middle of the night, falling asleep then trying to recall it in the morning is kind of cool, it's like coming off a trip..."

And I think Mark is caught in the dream....

Hi, I've finished these chapters and will be checking in a little later in order to discuss!

Kris wrote: "And I think Mark is caught in the dream..."
He is caught in something alright!

Yooooodaleeehoooo, good peoples! (Just think of me as Behemoth ;) ).

Oh citizens! He's gone mad. Next thing you know he'll be carrying a candle and causing a ruckus in a russian restaurant

Sheesh, I forgot about the roses. Now, every time I hear about a rose, I think of The President in The Hunger Games, haha. Could be worse, I could think about The Bachelor :D

I always associated yellow flowers and loneliness as a teenager. Now I wonder if that was because of this book or whether that may be a Russian tradition.

Speaking of roses - I'm always disappointed when I get to Master's line about liking roses. It actually sounds very banal, with roses being the well-accepted symbol of love. And then I have to remind myself that maybe they were not as overused in the popular culture back in Bulgakov's time, and that the very annoying and tasteless super-popular in the last years of the Soviet Union pop-song by Alla Pugacheva "A Million of Red Roses" was (thankfully!) not in existence yet!

I agree Mary, I loved "Black Magic and It's Full Expose." I think it is the best, or at least most comical and highly entertaining chapter in the book. I loved how the people in the dressing room are in awe of Behemoth; they are truly amazed by the large cat pouring water, drinking it, re-corking it, and wiping his mouth. And yet not so much amazed by the fact that a CAT is doing this more so than how well-mannered the cat is. "...the make-up man whispered admiringly: 'Ah, such class!..." How deliciously ridiculous!

It was hysterical to read of Bengalsky loosing his head and the head crying out for a doctor. How interesting for the audience's focus to be on returning the head back to it's owner rather than on the fact that the head was "taken off" in the first place! (I'm sure this is some sort of commentary on society's desensitization etc., but I am not adept at articulating my thoughts on these abstract concepts.)
It was quite strange to hear Woland comment that "They are people like all people...Flighty, frivolous...still...compassion sometimes knocks at their hearts...ordinary people..." (p.140). Ironic of him to make observations on compassion and frivolity.

In which chapter/chapters were the roses mentioned? It does seem like a hackneyed thing to use when the rest of the novel is so original. Wonder if there's a way to gauge when roses became the symbol of lovey-doveyness?

Carol wrote: "It was quite strange to hear Woland comment that "They are people like all people...Flighty, frivolous...still...compassion sometimes knocks at their hearts...ordinary people..." (p.140). Ironic of him to make observations on compassion and frivolity. "

First of all, I think the word "mercy" would be better suited than compassion here. As for mercy/compassion - it's not as surprising coming from Woland, since after all, as mentioned in the epigraph, he is a part of the power that always wishes for evil but always does good.

Mark wrote: "In which chapter/chapters were the roses mentioned? It does seem like a hackneyed thing to use when the rest of the novel is so original. Wonder if there's a way to gauge when roses became the symb..."

It's in Chapter 13 - "The Appearance of the Hero", when Master tells Ivan about meeting Margarita.
I'm assuming that maybe it was Master's attempt to forgo the loneliness and dejection of yellow and turn to the beauty of love. Or it may be that even the best characters and people are not immune to trivial and worn-out cliches.

Nataliya wrote: "Carol wrote: "It was quite strange to hear Woland comment that "They are people like all people...Flighty, frivolous...still...compassion sometimes knocks at their hearts...ordinary people..." (p.1..."

I like the use of the word compassion in this particular instance.
And I disagree with the fact that it's not surprising coming from Woland.
And wishing for one thing and doing another does seem rather frivolous after all.
And I don't necessarily see them as "doing good" either.
But hey, opinions, everyone's got one. I'm sure I could be in disagreement with your interpretations again but I'm just expressing my thoughts.

I think it is "mercy" in the B/O translation.

I'm continually being struck how quickly the book veers between the comic and the horrific - the devil(s) pull mean-spirited but fairly harmless pranks, but then, just when I'm not expecting it, they'll just as suddenly do something horrific.

I found the head crying for a doctor to be absolutely traumatizing.

@ Carol: I think I'm rather influenced by what I've read before about this book (and for the life of me, I can't remember where) that Bulgakov used an Old Testatment interpretation of Satan as a judge, an arbitrator, someone who carries out the punishments on Earth rather than the New Testament view of him as absolute Evil. Being not that familiar with the Bible, I cannot vouch for the truthfulness of that interpretation, but the idea stuck with me (and I think it shows up closer to the end of the book, at least in my interpretation). I cannot explain more without giving away plot points.

Oh, I used the word "mercy" because that seems to be a closer translation of the original Russian word. And I'm also using that translation of it knowing of certain event that is going to occur in this book, which I can only describe as 'mercy' (I'm deliberately trying to be vague here as that part is many chapters away).

Megan wrote: "I think it is "mercy" in the B/O translation.

I'm continually being struck how quickly the book veers between the comic and the horrific - the devil(s) pull mean-spirited but fairly harmless pran..."

Yes, the book is constantly on the verge between farce and drama, isn't it? But it's interesting how none of the 'pranks' ever come from Woland himself, only from the two clowns in his entourage, Fagot/Koroviev and Begemot.

Carol wrote: "I agree Mary, I loved "Black Magic and It's Full Expose." I think it is the best, or at least most comical and highly entertaining chapter in the book. I loved how the people in the dressing room are in awe of Behemoth; they are truly amazed by the large cat pouring water, drinking it, re-corking it, and wiping his mouth. And yet not so much amazed by the fact that a CAT is doing this more so than how well-mannered the cat is. "...the make-up man whispered admiringly: 'Ah, such class!..." How deliciously ridiculous! "

Yes!! I'm squirming at work here dying to get home and re-read that chapter. It was so eerie and wonderful!

@nataliya
I am aware of the use of "mercy" throughout the text. I have re-read as well; I was only referring to one specific quote in this comment and the choice of words may vary between translations.
I also agree with the point you make about Bulgakov portraying Satan as an arbiter or judge, rather than the "all-evil Satan" we are used to. I was referring more to the satement that u made that he is part of the group that "always" wishes to do evil but "always" does good. I thought that inconsistent with earlier statements of no one being "all" or "always" anything...that the characters were a mixture of both and that's what made them seem so real. Thus, I meant to disagree with the use of the word "always."

Either way, my response has turned pedantic so...moving on...

I am working on researching red roses and yellow flowers. My goal is to find a source that doesn't include a 1-800 number to order flowers...

Carol and Nataliya, I've been thinking about your comments about Woland's actions and whether they are surprising or expected, and I think I agree with both of you. We all carry around certain expectations for how the devil would act. I think Bulgakov keeps us guessing and off-balance as Woland keeps overturning our expectations - in a similar way to the impact that the Pilate scenes had on me. And Nataliya, I agree with you that Woland's actions are consistent with Bulgakov's representation of him. I think this all leads into issues that become even more prevalent in Part two, about the relationship between good and evil in the world of TM&M.

Mark wrote: "Sheesh, I forgot about the roses. Now, every time I hear about a rose, I think of The President in The Hunger Games, haha. Could be worse, I could think about The Bachelor :D"

Oh no, Mark... I don't want to have that association with TM&M. Oh no....

Megan wrote: "I'm continually being struck how quickly the book veers between the comic and the horrific - the devil(s) pull mean-spirited but fairly harmless pranks, but then, just when I'm not expecting it, they'll just as suddenly do something horrific. "

I love this observation, Megan.

Nataliya wrote: "Yes, the book is constantly on the verge between farce and drama, isn't it? But it's interesting how none of the 'pranks' ever come from Woland himself, only from the two clowns in his entourage, Fagot/Koroviev and Begemot. ."

And this, Nataliya.

Any thoughts about the functions/roles of the different members of Woland's entourage?

Kris wrote: "I am working on researching red roses and yellow flowers. My goal is to find a source that doesn't include a 1-800 number to order flowers..."

According to the least credible looking site ever, yellow flowers mean an intention to separate to Russians. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/ind...

Kris wrote: "We all carry around certain expectations for how the devil would act. I think Bulgakov keeps us guessing and off-balance as Woland keeps overturning our expectations"

For those of us who don't believe in the devil or hell, I'm looking at this from an entirely un-religious point of view. Government propaganda, communism, control, manipulation, repressed society etc...these are the evils embodied in Woland and his entourage. I know it's an obvious layman observation, but it's what I'm taking from it.

Mary wrote: "For those of us who don't believe in the devil or hell, I'm looking at this from an entirely un-religious point of view. Government propaganda, communism, control, manipulation, repressed society etc...these are the evils embodied in Woland and his entourage. I know it's an obvious layman observation, but it's what I'm taking from it. "

I was thinking more from a cultural perspective, I guess. We are inundated with imagery and stories about the devil, even if we don't believe a devil exists.

At the same time, one of the beauties of TM&M is that you can interpret it on many different registers at once. I love the complexity of interpretations, and I think this is a novel that encourages readers to apply multiple interpretations.

Mary wrote: "Kris wrote: "I am working on researching red roses and yellow flowers. My goal is to find a source that doesn't include a 1-800 number to order flowers..."

According to the least credible looking ..."

This is my favorite comment:
"Yellow flowers mean that u have either cheated or want to leave someone.

Anyhow,Good Luck!:

I go through phases of reading a sub-genre of horror called Splatterpunk. In it, the author or authors (since one of the originators was a two-man writing team) seek to show violence as graphically as possible, "not to flinch," as they often put it. I was surprised as I read M&M just how graphic and detailed Bulgakov was! Most of the scenes, if I knew they were written nowadays, wouldn't have struck me as odd. Jaded toward violent scenes, I guess. But knowing and being reminded that this was written in the 20/30s made the graphic violence capital-S Shocking, as if I were reading something like it for the first time.

That head scene. It seemed like, too, in that instance, that the audience was more concerned about the emcee having his head placed back on his shoulders than by the fact that they head had been pulled off in the first place because they assumed the beheading was all part of the show...and wanted to gouts of blood to cease!

Catie wrote: " I think as a people we're all highly talented at ignoring the things that inconveniently stand in the way of what we want."

"It's depressing when we're so predictable in our greed and flimsy mercy that not even the devil can enjoy it properly. "

He has seen it all, and just as he remarks, people have not changed much, even in the "new" country. The same little vices are there - which may be exactly how Koroviev and Begemot are so successful in their pranks, having learned the unchanged human nature over the millenia. (view spoiler)[Only Margarita eventually seems to surprise Woland with her unexpected reaction to the Frieda scene (hide spoiler)].

Nataliya wrote: "(hide spoiler)."

That was one of my very favorite scenes, and for that reason :)

Kris wrote: "Kris wrote: "This is my favorite comment:
"Yellow flowers mean that u have either cheated or want to leave someone.

Anyhow,Good Luck!:"

lmao

Mark wrote: "Nataliya wrote: "(hide spoiler)."

That was one of my very favorite scenes, and for that reason :)"

(view spoiler)[That was the part when I abandoned my mild annoyance with Margarita's character and realized that I absolutely loved her. Because she was so touchingly human - not in the condescending way Woland viewed humanity but in the way that makes us all proud. (hide spoiler)]

For some reason, as flitty as she was, I liked her all the way through, but especially then :)

Catie wrote: "So, this morning I read chapter 15 - Nikanor Ivanovich's Dream - and I'm pretty sure that I got approximately zero of the references there. It looks like the site that was posted yesterday in the ch 1-9 thread has quite a bit of background so I'm going to read that this afternoon before continuing. "

Catie seems we're reading at the same pace, I read that chapter last night. I'm so confused...

Oo, I liked that one! It was one of the crazier scenes I could follow okay. That's the one about (view spoiler)[ratting on your neighbor (hide spoiler)]?

Kris wrote: "Farcical scenes do make up a significant part of the first part of TM&M. I'm wondering about everyone's responses to them. What worked for you? What didn't? How do you understand those scenes in the context of the other, non-farcical elements in the novel?"

I enjoy the farcical elements, and although the antics do push the boundaries of likelihood, they always feel well balanced with clever dialogue and hidden social or historical context. The scenes serve to add depth to the storyline as the characters' seemingly meaningless and buffoonish behaviors and conversation always resurface in other parts of the book, tying together and layering events effectively. I also never feel a sense of predictability as there is always a slight twist to what is expected. It's smart silliness!

Nataliya wrote: "I always associated yellow flowers and loneliness as a teenager. Now I wonder if that was because of this book or whether that may be a Russian tradition."

That's interesting, Nataliya, and could very well be since you first read the book as a young girl.

In the commentary it states that the flowers Margarita was carrying were Mimosa, which I always think of as filler in a bouquet -- the way baby's breath is used. Roses, though common to us now, maybe wouldn't have been as easy to come by then and were perhaps thought of as rare or extravagant.